Vee Twin -vs- I-4

[racer]

Anyone have about $18,000 USD to spend on a track day bike? It's totally worth it.

Embarrassing to say, but I don't have $18,000 for a track bike!

 

But what's a good way or strategy to find a good track bike, used? Ebay? Local dealers? I suppose all of the above is a good answer of course.

 

I was joking about the Tornado 1130Tre being a good track day bike. Obivously, it is far too expensive for the average Joe to afford. And much too big for a novice track rider in any case. Aside, I hear Benelli are focusing on bringing a bike to Moto-GP soon.

 

As for strategy for finding a used model of whatever bike you have selected, yes, all of the above and local used bike rags and classified ads are good places to look. That said, I prefer to see and inspect a used machine first-hand before commiting to a purchase.

[racer]

You guys are overlooking a great beginners bike, the Buell 1125R. Lots of torque and enough HP to be exciting. I can stay with the 1098's on a straight. Handles great. The '08s are as low as <$10K now with easy financing. Of course I have one that is used only on the track. My first race, last week, I was in the Beginner class. One of the more experienced guys on a 600 pulled up next to me on the short straight. I looked over at him, down shifted and pulled away. The bike is a lot better than me, but it also takes care of me. My biggest challenge so far is throttle control. The track I visit, Arroyo Seco, is very technical. It's easy to spin the tire with too much throttle. That is my only problem. Although I did get a GPR damper, you could go without it.

 

I better comment on the early problems they had with the 1125. All bikes now are delivered with all recalls done. The only other issue is to buy an intake solenoid replacement piece for $6.00.

 

Oh yah, I've also learned not to up shift with the clutch cause that makes the front come off the ground. The trans is so smooth.

 

With all due respect, I have a soft spot in my heart for the American made Buell's, but, a smaller bike is always better for learning to race or ride. As much as it feels good to be able to motor away from smaller bikes, the real test is racing against bikes of equal power. And, having to focus on controlling that much power, like you noticed, takes attention away from focusing on basic riding skills and can become a crutch for riding around other skills or issues, like making up for lack of cornering ability with the motor. In the long run, it is better to get the basic skills, like standard throttle or braking and visual skills like reference points, sense of speed and seeing the big picture, well-developed before adding extra power and the extra distraction of keeping the front wheel down or the rear wheel from breaking loose, potentially leading to a highside.

 

That said, any bike is better than no bike. Good luck with your racing.

 

racer

[duggram]

I forgot to point out that the 1125R Buell engine is made in Austria, the frame in Italy, the suspension in Japan and it's all assembled by gnomes in Wisconsin.

[racer]

Eric Buell is 100% made in the USA.

 

I can testify to that as his parents still live across the street from me.

 

In any case, prior to the Helicon engine, and other recent changes at Buell, it is common knowledge that Buell motorcycles have traditionally been powered (and partnered) with Harley-Davidson. (Hence, why you probably purchased your Buell at a Harley dealership.) And whether this bit or that bit is made in Japan or whatever, H-D, like Buell, is an American company that produces American motorcycles.

 

And an 1125cc race bike that makes 146 horsepower is still not a good choice for beginners. No matter where it is made.

 

[duggram]

I strongly disagree that the Buell 1125R is not a good beginners race bike. For sure an 11 year old should not be on this bike. But if you have ridden on the street for a while and have any self restraint it's a perfect racer. The Buell 1125R is a very tractable racer. On my first trackday I was advised to put the bike in a high gear and ride around the track without shifting down. It was amazing to me how easy the 1125 was to ride like this which also gave me the confidence and skill to turn up the wick a little. In just a few track days I am now WFO and enjoying life.

 

BTW I was being facetious about where the bike was built. Thought for sure you would see the humor. Also, I'm not interested where Eric was built. That's too creepy for me.

[racer]

I strongly disagree that the Buell 1125R is not a good beginners race bike. For sure an 11 year old should not be on this bike. But if you have ridden on the street for a while and have any self restraint it's a perfect racer. The Buell 1125R is a very tractable racer. On my first trackday I was advised to put the bike in a high gear and ride around the track without shifting down. It was amazing to me how easy the 1125 was to ride like this which also gave me the confidence and skill to turn up the wick a little. In just a few track days I am now WFO and enjoying life.

 

Leaving an open class twin with a flat torque curve in a high gear will make throttle control easier and reduce the chance of spinning up and high siding. It will give you more confidence while you get a handle on the general idea of track riding. But it will not give you the skill to "turn up the wick" or anything else. That is the whole point.

 

While I respect your right to disagree, please consider the advice and wisdom of senior racers, coaches and instructors. While the Buell is certainly better that a ZX-10 or an CBR1000RR for a newbie track rider, 146 bhp is really not tractable power for a beginner racer such as yourself... yet. And while the v-twin might not spin up as easy as the I4, that isn't the only consideration. The track gets way more narrow much sooner approaching a turn at 150 mph rather than say 100 mph. No matter what configuration, it will still bite you... hard! That's why it was suggested you put it in high gear and leave it there in the first place. Riding a couple of years on the street is good. But it really isn't enough. That's why Keith wrote a bunch of books and why CSS is here.

 

Perhaps for an expert racer switching from an inline four making 146 bhp to a V-twin making 146 bhp, one could say that the twin would be more tractable, comparatively speaking... for that expert racer. But, whether you realize it or not, IMO, you are almost certainly not ready to skillfully handle that kind of power in a racing situation. I don't mean to be negative and I'm not trying to scare you or saying this to put you down or belittle you. I'm saying it to hopefully save your life. The best thing is to get to a superbike school and get a handle on your current level of skill and at least consider that an 1125ccc bike might be just a wee bit over your head at the moment. If you don't respect that kind of power, I promise that that bike will do it for you. And I'd hate to see that happen.

 

Look, I understand how you feel. Totally jazzed after your first track day or whatever. Believe me I do. Because I was there myself. Twenty-five years ago. I'm not looking to "be right" or "win" an argument. I simply care that you don't get hurt anymore than necessary to learn the lessons that bike has to teach you. Restraint is a good place to start. But it isn't really a skill. It's more a state of mind. And a healthy one to be sure. Just please don't mistake it for skill or think for one second that it will be enough.

 

In any case, I'm glad you are having fun. That's a great bike you have. Keep the shiny side up and do let us know how your first real race against other 146 bhp machines works out.

 

In the meantime, I urge you to grab yourself copies of Keith's books and sign up for CSS Level I ASAP.

 

Sincerely,

 

racer

[Cobie Fair]

I strongly disagree that the Buell 1125R is not a good beginners race bike. For sure an 11 year old should not be on this bike. But if you have ridden on the street for a while and have any self restraint it's a perfect racer. The Buell 1125R is a very tractable racer. On my first trackday I was advised to put the bike in a high gear and ride around the track without shifting down. It was amazing to me how easy the 1125 was to ride like this which also gave me the confidence and skill to turn up the wick a little. In just a few track days I am now WFO and enjoying life.

 

BTW I was being facetious about where the bike was built. Thought for sure you would see the humor. Also, I'm not interested where Eric was built. That's too creepy for me.

 

Hi Duggram,

 

Not everyone is the same, with how they learn and pick up the skills of riding. I remember when I asked Keith many years ago about racing my 900 Ducati (1982). I was concerned about racing it, and his resposne at the time, was "You race what you got!" That helped, as indeed that was what I had.

 

From the standpoint of long-term technique and skill, having a nice gradient approach to racing has worked well for many. Starting out on smaller bikes, getting them used to the power, build up corner entry speed, work on technique, and not "rely" on the horsepower. It doesn't mean that's the only way, or one couldn't do it starting out on a higher horespower bike (and there probably are stories of racers that have).

 

Most of my coaches are faster on a 600 than a 1000, me too for sure.

 

If you do go racing, let us know how it goes, OK?

 

Best,

CF