Posture

[Cobie Fair]

Mark,

 

You are working too hard. This may be caused by a few things, so solution might not be "just do this". One of the normal ones is how you are steering the bike, and specifically, HOW EFFICIENTLY you are steering it. Another can be how you are anchored to the bike. Both of these, if even a little bit off ideal, can realy make a rider work too hard. I know, I used to be so sore after the first days on a bike in a season, could hardly walk! Not an issue at all now.

 

I don't recall specifically, but have you read Twist 1? Been to any of our schools? Specificaly, have we really worked you over well on the Steering drill? That exercise is one of our best, not even done on the track, and requires a sharp coach to get and see all the different pieces. Coach has to have a little pit bull in him/her too

 

Not sure how soon I can make it up here to the forum, welcome to shoot me an e-mail on the above.

 

Best,

Cobie

 

cobie@superbikeschool.com

[msneedtx]

is it safe to assume that people who post in these forums have a general idea of what twist of the wrist is about?

 

Many do, but usually best to reference whatever point you are trying to make.

 

CF

 

Yep.. let me have it ;-) Totally new bike and was not adjusted at all for me (close to weight.. Ohlins .95 and .90 internals and around 210 all suited up). I was clearly doing something wrong; thus the post, and yet it was my best lap time there (1:30) on the 1.7m CCW (hey for me that is a big improvement). I think I was just bunched up too much and too tense on the straights given the vastly different power band of this bike. I read all the books and slept since then but I am open to criticism so please let it fly if I am all wet (thus the reason I posted my inexperience level). Apparently I touched on a religious point on steering and didn't realize it (guess I'll read the Twist of the Wrist books again). My point was that using the throttle to push me wide instead of mentally trying to steer there was an improvement for me but maybe that concept is somehow wrong. Trying not to over-think anything and just get used to a new bike but this fatigue was new and longer lasting than I had experienced.

 

Regards,

[Cobie Fair]

Yep.. let me have it ;-) Totally new bike and was not adjusted at all for me (close to weight.. Ohlins .95 and .90 internals and around 210 all suited up). I was clearly doing something wrong; thus the post, and yet it was my best lap time there (1:30) on the 1.7m CCW (hey for me that is a big improvement). I think I was just bunched up too much and too tense on the straights given the vastly different power band of this bike. I read all the books and slept since then but I am open to criticism so please let it fly if I am all wet (thus the reason I posted my inexperience level). Apparently I touched on a religious point on steering and didn't realize it (guess I'll read the Twist of the Wrist books again). My point was that using the throttle to push me wide instead of mentally trying to steer there was an improvement for me but maybe that concept is somehow wrong. Trying not to over-think anything and just get used to a new bike but this fatigue was new and longer lasting than I had experienced.

 

Regards,

 

Got it. Getting ready to leave now, so this will be short. First thing, have a look at the steering sections of the books, see if you are doing that as effectively as possible. Next thing, ok to use the throttle to run wide, just make sure you don't add lean angle at the same time! That's key, really.

 

Gotta run, see if I can get back up in the next few days (traveling and schools).

 

Best,

Cobie

[msneedtx]

Yep.. let me have it ;-) Totally new bike and was not adjusted at all for me (close to weight.. Ohlins .95 and .90 internals and around 210 all suited up). I was clearly doing something wrong; thus the post, and yet it was my best lap time there (1:30) on the 1.7m CCW (hey for me that is a big improvement). I think I was just bunched up too much and too tense on the straights given the vastly different power band of this bike. I read all the books and slept since then but I am open to criticism so please let it fly if I am all wet (thus the reason I posted my inexperience level). Apparently I touched on a religious point on steering and didn't realize it (guess I'll read the Twist of the Wrist books again). My point was that using the throttle to push me wide instead of mentally trying to steer there was an improvement for me but maybe that concept is somehow wrong. Trying not to over-think anything and just get used to a new bike but this fatigue was new and longer lasting than I had experienced.

 

Regards,

 

Got it. Getting ready to leave now, so this will be short. First thing, have a look at the steering sections of the books, see if you are doing that as effectively as possible. Next thing, ok to use the throttle to run wide, just make sure you don't add lean angle at the same time! That's key, really.

 

Gotta run, see if I can get back up in the next few days (traveling and schools).

 

Best,

Cobie

 

Thanks. Had the ToW I and re-read that and I can see how my comment was alarming on steering lol. I was pushing on the bar (even with a featherlight grip) and had the desired lean angle going into the apex but as soon (sometimes too soon) as I hit the apex I went off maintenance throttle and used more throttle to go wide for the next apex (in a double apex turn I should have said). I did not trail brake as much as I do at Eagles Canyon and prefer to get all my braking (and shifting) done before the corner and I have been working on "locking myself in" to a committed body position so I am not moving around in the corner. I am still getting my muscle memory up to speed for higher entry speeds into corners and using the force "in the corner" to slow me down vs trying to hit the comfortable corner speed at the front of the corner by over-braking if that makes sense.

 

As for the posture I did read some posts on geometry and noticed some of the interesting comments on placement e.g. from front axle to peg at around 70% and my rear set was set about 1 inch to far back compared to the ZX7R which compressed the knee angle on even straight riding considerably. By moving the vortex adj rearset two holes forward I am as follows:

 

Original setting:

axle to axle 54" +/- 1/8"

front axle to rear set peg 39" +/- 1/8"

resulting ratio 72.2%

 

New setting:

axle to axle 54" +/- 1/8"

front axle to rear set peg 38" +/- 1/8"

resulting ratio 70.3%

 

This new setting is more consistent with the location of my foot (ball of foot on peg .. heel against the frame). The vortex peg is much more aggressive and held my foot in place more than anything else I have tried.

 

I am going to try this new setting (as well as switch from my constricting 2 piece RS taichi to my Dainese or the 1pc Arlen Ness suit that is supposed to arrive any day). The seam is so tight it stops my knee from moving out with enough daylight under the knee and I end up fighting it all day (but that was nothing new). I am also reviewing the video the rider behind me was taking as well as the Starlane GPS data as he was following my lines so I would have an idea when I analyzed my lines and may have more ideas as to what I was doing. I was clearly having trouble getting a comfortable body position but thought that was just new bike-itis.

 

Regards and thanks,

 

mark

[Cobie Fair]

Mark,

 

For sure get the riding gear situation sorted out, so you can move well and easily, not restricted. If a suit doesn't fit well, impossible to really do the job. On the other figures, have to see you on the bike to have any kind of real opinion on that, but getting so you don't have to overwork yourself (and the bike) is where to head--make sense?

 

We are traveling tomorrow, not sure if I'm going to have any real internet coverage for some days...e-mail if you like, no problem: cobie@superbikeschool.com

 

Best,

CF

[msneedtx]

Mark,

 

For sure get the riding gear situation sorted out, so you can move well and easily, not restricted. If a suit doesn't fit well, impossible to really do the job. On the other figures, have to see you on the bike to have any kind of real opinion on that, but getting so you don't have to overwork yourself (and the bike) is where to head--make sense?

 

We are traveling tomorrow, not sure if I'm going to have any real internet coverage for some days...e-mail if you like, no problem: cobie@superbikeschool.com

 

Best,

CF

 

 

New leathers arrived today (that problem is fixed). Moved rearsets forward so geometry felt much better. Forced me further forward on the bike and I my head was closer to the bars on turns and that seemed to help the feel of the bike (I was not fighting it as much). Had a 2:13 at ECR this weekend (a 10 second improvement over my ZX7R) averaging 2:15's and focused on putting pressure on bars and not on the peg and no fatigue (of course I was in 3rd gear all day with only a few 4th gear changes on straights and not all lefts like at Cresson). For my 8th track day I was pleased.

 

 

thanks for the input and advice folks..

 

One question though.. new leathers have a removable liner.. pain in the but to get on and off. Do you guys remove the liner and just wear cool fit unders or just powder it up and use the liner? I know some folks wear armor under the suit and rip out all the internal armor and just use that but I am keeping my A* back/chest protector and using the stock Arlen Ness armor in the suit everywhere else.

 

Regards,

[dest101auk]

I don't recall specifically, but have you read Twist 1? Been to any of our schools? Specificaly, have we really worked you over well on the Steering drill? That exercise is one of our best, not even done on the track, and requires a sharp coach to get and see all the different pieces. Coach has to have a little pit bull in him/her too

 

I was fortunate enough to attend a 2-day camp at Streets of Willow and I must vouch for the steering drill. My coach, who was actually from the Oz SBK school, gave me some very informative advice and i wish i could go back for Levels 3 and 4!

[msneedtx]

I don't recall specifically, but have you read Twist 1? Been to any of our schools? Specificaly, have we really worked you over well on the Steering drill? That exercise is one of our best, not even done on the track, and requires a sharp coach to get and see all the different pieces. Coach has to have a little pit bull in him/her too

 

I was fortunate enough to attend a 2-day camp at Streets of Willow and I must vouch for the steering drill. My coach, who was actually from the Oz SBK school, gave me some very informative advice and i wish i could go back for Levels 3 and 4!

 

I agree this training would be beneficial.. hard to get to CA from Texas.. wish there was a school closer to home.. have lots of track addicts (and me) that would take advantage of this here in Texas.

 

Regards,

[hubbard_28]

I agree this training would be beneficial.. hard to get to CA from Texas.. wish there was a school closer to home.. have lots of track addicts (and me) that would take advantage of this here in Texas.

 

Regards,

I don't know where in Texas you live, but I used to frequent Vegas (where they have 2 day camps) from Dallas, and the hotel and flight are cheap. A stay downtown, or even closer to the track and a rental car wouldn't cost much. The rental car would be cheaper than a taxi if you stayed downtown or on the strip. Or if you went and hooked up with someone on the site or got a friend to split the cost.