Cobie Fair Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 OK, here is what I recall: He disentangled from Nicky, turned the bike in, was OK for a while then the back end came around, then he lost the front, a little high-side. The other footage I saw of him highsiding (crashing at Laguna and not sure the other place) he added lean angle and throttle at the same time. That is the deadly combo. That's what I think he did there--could have chopped the throttle when the back end came around, but the initial problem was adding the 2 (throttle and lean angle) at the same time). If he had just leaned the bike too far, ridden it off the wheels with no throttle, would have lost the front, or neutral throttle, maybe loose both ends, but the back end came around for sure in this first. What do you think? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Apparently when Lorenzo hit Nicky, his front brake rotor splintered (carbon) and he had no brakes. So he thought he'd try and make the bend, couldn't, and that was the end......gee hayden has had some bad luck with bingles, eh? OK, here is what I recall: He disentangled from Nicky, turned the bike in, was OK for a while then the back end came around, then he lost the front, a little high-side. The other footage I saw of him highsiding (crashing at Laguna and not sure the other place) he added lean angle and throttle at the same time. That is the deadly combo. That's what I think he did there--could have chopped the throttle when the back end came around, but the initial problem was adding the 2 (throttle and lean angle) at the same time). If he had just leaned the bike too far, ridden it off the wheels with no throttle, would have lost the front, or neutral throttle, maybe loose both ends, but the back end came around for sure in this first. What do you think? CF I'm waiting for dbtriple to provide reference for this account. I have the video on PVR (recorded from SPEED) and will try and find some time to watch it again tonight, but in order to really see you have to watch the whole race as they show different angles during the race. Cobie- Everyone knows that you were going there (LOL) with the lean angle/ throttle concept. Do you really think it's the source of all of Lorenzo's issues? He seems to think that he's too aggressive. I wonder why the multi-million dollar traction control can't catch the slide and reduce power fast enough to put the bike back inline. I'm sure they have lean angle, throttle and steering sensors wired into the bike. If that were the case, his engineers and riding coaches would have given him the "bad boy" finger. But this is purely assumptive on my part. Ace has something there, but again TC can be abrupt or smooth. They have it so that it can control any number of cylinders' ignition cutout. With the M1's ride-by-wire throttle it can do much more, and quicker than a human hand...so it seems kinda sketchy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 jaybird, Rossi rides the same bike, don't recall the last time he got highsided off it. Add the 2 together, looks like you can defeat all the fancy stuff, doesn't it? What does "too aggressive" mean anyway? Got to be too aggressive with something, don't you? It's like, "smooth". Unless that's defined, it just doesn't mean much of anything, a buzz word. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 In an interview he said that he continues to push when he shouldn't to try and make up time, because he wants to win. I guess he feels he has something to prove. Aggressive was my word to summarize all that he said in interview. Results show that Rossi is smarter. Lorenzo has talent, for sure. But I think it's the intangible thing, maturity that's the difference. I'm glad that you pointed out that TC can be defeated. It's not fool-proof. If it were, Honda wouldn't pay Dani Pedrosa what they pay him....they'd pay me instead 1/10th of his salary for the same results. But I'd fool them....they'd never get those results outta me (LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I see exactly what you're saying, Cobie. I have it recorded (I save them to watch during the off-season) and watching the replay when they show the overhead view, you can see the back kick out. I initially only saw the front give, but it was when the bike was rebounding. I'm guessing that since he lost so much speed during the collision that Lorenzo was trying to dip the bike and get back on the gas. Maybe he had his traction control dialed down. Stoner definitely did. He was sliding all over the place. He was under control, but kept kicking the bike out. Probably saved his tires by keeping the heat down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozfireblade Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Definately going to have another look at the vid, I was in the bass straight stand at the race (looking back up the straight and turn 1), I only really saw what looked to be a lowside after the back kicked out, plus the big screen to see it on, nicky did well to stay on the bike!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It's clear that the back slipped out then got back inline. (I watched the video again). I also noticed that where he turned in, his trajectory probably would have put him off the track anyhow. Perhaps he was trying to steer with the rear and didn't expect the rear to hook back up. It pushed the front toward the outside of the corner, which is why it looked so weird. But again...pure speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 According to Speed: Lorenzo had struggled with grip issues all weekend here and he made a mistake at the start, braking too late and cannoning into the back of Nicky Hayden. The impact damaged his front brake and he was unable to slow down for the corner, losing the rear and tumbling into the gravel trap. http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-pi/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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