GregGorman Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Greg, fantstic post, thank you. It does now appear to be alot clearer. It seems my confusion has come about because you guys fill in the gaps on an individual basis. Would it be fair to say you only take those next steps when the pupil shows the ability? As you point out somebody like me who has only done level 1 and read the books (ad nauseum ) will have a slightly narrow view of the practical side of what you guys teach. On the other hand we students are encouraged to think of the twist series of books as our bible so you can see how somebody might perceive something not dealt with directly in the books as something that is perhaps missing entirely. This was my mistake, but its only after pestering you guys about it personally that its been made clear that what you guys actually do is put the meat on the metaphorical bones ie the twist books. Previously this was not something i was aware of. I'd presumed you simply taught the basic concepts in the book and that was that........Am i the only one with this perception??? And on the point of developing the basic skills..... Do you guys have a set curriculum or is it very much dependant on the individual and his/her level of ability...... Thank you! I guess you could say we fill in the gaps if you really wanted to. But look at Twist II, Chapter 24. Under "Practical IMPROVEMENTS " [emphasis added] There are four points. Point two says: "2. Radial tire technology allows for steeper lean angles while braking. So, while the maximum straight-line forces are pretty much the same, the technique of carrying some braking down deeper into the turns entrance has been improved and you find many riders using it." So I say there's no gap to fill in. It's just that sometimes your find yourself looking for some great, complex technique that will make you the best. And in looking for the technique you miss the simplicity of it. The simplicity is: The more lean angle you have, the less brakes you can use. Add that to planning for a mid-corner speed in addition to a turn-in speed and you pretty much have trail braking. What you don't want is also in Chapter 24. You don't want to be trapped on the brakes. In other words your turn-in speed was wrong. We teach it all, on an appropriate gradient for the student in front of us but with a set curriculum as Bullet mentioned. And it is in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 And on the point of developing the basic skills..... Do you guys have a set curriculum or is it very much dependant on the individual and his/her level of ability...... The curriculum is set, as in the struture of which drills we can coach when, so drill 1 level is throttle control and so on. So if we see something really horrible that can only be addressed when you get level 3, we'll leave it until then. We also always work on the drill that needs the most work, so for example, you may need to keep working on your throttle control, when say the drill is turn points. Bullet I can vouch for the coaches using initiative and focusing on the drill that needs the most work, this year I did lvls 2 and 3 on consecutive days and was fortunate enough to have the same coach for both days, during my first day of lvl 2 I was working on my visual skills, doing the drills that Andy had set out for us in the classroom, lvl 2 had some big breakthroughs for me but the one thing my coach (Butch) was not happy with was my quick turn. First thing he did was organise it for me to do the lvl 1 off track drill, then during lvl 3, although I was doing the drills set out for me my main focus was on quick turning the bike, the improvement I made that day was astonishing. It was the following day I did a track evening at cadwell park that what I had learned really shone through, cadwells a very narrow track and benefits a good confident quick turn, especially through that little chicane everyone hates, and also at the hairpin! So thanks to my coach he turned one of my weak points into one of my stronger points! Bobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I thought cornering on the limit boiled down to physics. On the limit for a given tyre/weight/track you only have a certain amount of friction keeping the tyre from sliding. Turning creates a slip angle which uses up some of the available friction so on the limits of turning all the available friction would be taken up with turning.If you are braking as well as turning then the braking is taking up some of the available friction so there is less friction available for turning. You therefore need to be going slower or the tyre is sliding. the tyre is not sliding because youve riden off the edge of it but purely because youve gone beyond the friction level of the tyre. If the bike slows enough & the rider is good enough then he has probably just gone slightly wide & a bit slower than he wanted. Physics is physics & doesn't change. Whether any of us mere mortals can get to the real limits of friction in a controled manner is a different thing. Until you've reached that limit of your tire traction, given type, temp, what have you, you can have a combination of friction braking and manual braking before surpassing the traction limit. It's about keeping it under that limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Jason, What do you mean by manual vs friction braking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajita Dave Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm pretty sure he means manual braking as using the brakes and friction braking as the cornering force/engine braking slowing the bike down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Jason,What do you mean by manual vs friction braking? What Fajita Dave said. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I've been sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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