Lean Angle

[pmellett]

Hi,

My riding has definately improved having completed levels 1 and 2 but i'm struggling with increasing my lean angle to go faster. I was so looking forward to riding the 'Lean'bike but unfortunately CSS appear to have stopped running it here in the UK.

If i knew how far i could lean i'm certain i'd be more confident.

Are there any drills to practise to experience greater lean angles or is it simply a case of as (if) i get faster, i'll lean more?

 

 

 

 

pjm

[ozfireblade]

Hi pjm,

 

I guess the first question is why do you think you need to lean more? is it to drag your knee?

 

Dylan

[pmellett]

Hi Dylan,

Kneedown isn't my ultimate goal although i would like to be able to do so. (i can't)

My aim is to be able to corner faster on track. I'm still in the novice group and ridden 10-15 trackdays. I'm comfortable with my riding and all of the level 1&2 CSS drills are slowly dropping into place. Almost without fail, when cornering i know that i could have gone faster but the next time round i don't. Why? I believe it's a psycological thing with leaning more. I know you don't have to use max lean to ride fast but my thinking is that if i knew just how far i could lean then i'd be a more confident rider.

 

 

 

 

pjm

[faffi]

This is quite typical, I think. A friend of mine had a built in lean limit that made him at least as fast as me on gravel, not unusually slow in the rain and hopelessly slow on dry tarmac. His speed was exactly the same no matter the conditions. He didn't even understand the conditions, he only understood how far he dared to lean. It took many years of street riding before he got his pace up on dry tarmac to a level where caravans stopped passing us

[ozfireblade]

Hey pjm,

 

I was the same, wanting to lean more which made me try harder which in turn made me stiff on the bike. All these little things made it harder for me to concentrate on the very simple drills that let me go faster into a turn... The Two step (Three step aswell) and quick turning. At a track day I would sit behind someone who was a little faster than me and let them basically set the speed and follow them in. Dont pick someone ridiculously quick as it will end in tears. I found that the faster I went in to a corner my lean angle increased, now I go into a corner and my brain will be saying slow down you clown!!! so I just turn my head into the corner and everything slows down (sound familiar) and Im suddenly quicker into a turn...... dunno if that makes sense?

 

I would suggest, if you havent done it already, make sure that your reference points, turning points apex and vanishing points are accurate so that you know exactly where your turning apexing and leaving the corner. Maybe concentrate on one track for a bit and get it pretty well sorted then move onto another...worked for me.

 

Sorta haphazard disjointed advice I know but I hope it sorta helps you out, lots of guys in here that can probably explain it better than me.

 

Dylan

[Kevin Kane]

Hey pjm,

 

I was the same, wanting to lean more which made me try harder which in turn made me stiff on the bike. All these little things made it harder for me to concentrate on the very simple drills that let me go faster into a turn... The Two step (Three step aswell) and quick turning. At a track day I would sit behind someone who was a little faster than me and let them basically set the speed and follow them in. Dont pick someone ridiculously quick as it will end in tears. I found that the faster I went in to a corner my lean angle increased, now I go into a corner and my brain will be saying slow down you clown!!! so I just turn my head into the corner and everything slows down (sound familiar) and Im suddenly quicker into a turn...... dunno if that makes sense?

 

I would suggest, if you havent done it already, make sure that your reference points, turning points apex and vanishing points are are accurate so that you know exactly where your turning apexing and leaving the corner. Maybe concentrate on one track for a bit and get it pretty well sorted then move onto another...worked for me.

 

Sorta haphazard disjointed advice but I know but I hope it sorta helps you out, lots of guys in here that can probably explain it better than me.

 

Dylan

PJM;

Dylan's advice to focus on RP's is excellent and to do so at one track is also very good. [Tailing a faster rider can work but I'll leave that alone for right now] I was coached to take it one more step - to concentrate on only one or two corners at one track per session and I found it worked wonders. It's not like you ignore the other corners but that you really concentrate on just one or two where you are struggling. My experience was that by doing so that almost by default I pick up speed in every other corner. It was an unintended consequence of the exercise but a positive one non the less. BTW, this is advice I was given at CSS events by more than one coach at more than one track; it really did seem to work no matter what track I rode after that. YRMV.

 

Rainman

[pmellett]

Dylan / Rainman,

Thanks for the advice. I think you're telling me to stop paying so much attention on lean angle and concentrate on entry speed, which will consequently increase the amount of lean.

 

 

 

pjm

[harnois]

I often have to remind myself to look as far ahead as possible - look at the apex when approaching the turn, and as soon as I turn in, look around the turn as far as possible. The better I do with looking ahead, the faster my entry speeds get and sooner I tend to get on the throttle and therefore the lower I end up leaning.

 

Like you said focus on turn entry speed, but the info you need to judge that is - where you are, where the apex is, and your previous experience with that turn. All basically visual skills. By looking at the apex you know when to dive in toward it and how fast you can be going when you do it. By looking ahead around the turn you'll know that you can make it to where you are looking no problem and that you'd make it there better with some throttle!

 

But there are some turns, mostly the ones after longer braking zones, where I routinely charge in at a speed that just seems way too fast to me. I'm thinking there's no way I can make it, but I KNOW that I can make it because I've been around the track and charged in the same way a hundred times before. But obviously we gotta work up to that gradually, because those are the moments where a fundamental flaw in our riding or a moment of panic will bite us. When riding on the track, the braking zones and turn entries seem like the most physically and mentally intense moments, and for me one of the fun challenges of riding on the track is learning to focus amidst all that intensity.