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I've been going through the most ridiculous pursuit of engine oil research. There are SO many choices and even more opinions. But frankly I can’t seem to find an absolute.

 

Some examples are:

Motul 300v Synthetic – Expensive but good.

Repsol Synthetic – No opinions yet.

Mobil 1 Synthetic – Seems largely liked.

AMSOIL – Seems really good but can't get turned off by pushy sales people.

 

So what are your likes?

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I've been going through the most ridiculous pursuit of engine oil research. There are SO many choices and even more opinions. But frankly I can't seem to find an absolute.

 

Some examples are:

Motul 300v Synthetic – Expensive but good.

Repsol Synthetic – No opinions yet.

Mobil 1 Synthetic – Seems largely liked.

AMSOIL – Seems really good but can't get turned off by pushy sales people.

 

So what are your likes?

 

Hi buddy, not sure if you get this in the US but I use Shell advance ultra 4T awesome stuff I wont use anything else now

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It generally doesn't matter much these days, I believe, as long as you stay away from low friction oils and use high quality fully synthetic. I have found that some oils, like Quaker State, allows my clutch to separate fully from cold and makes every gearchange from the first to the last silent, whereas others, like the Shell mentioned, cause a slight drag when the clutch is cold and always lets me know about the 1-2 changes. But again, I doubt there is much difference in actual protection - the engine is probably the last thing to go on a modern bike more often than not.

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Hi buddy, not sure if you get this in the US but I use Shell advance ultra 4T awesome stuff I wont use anything else now

 

Yeah, that Shell blend is not available in the US for what ever reasons.. :rolleyes:

 

But at the same time, you OZ folk have had the cool little Kawi ZX-2R's and Honda CBR250's available over the years we've never seen. Those small displacement inline 4 rockets have to be fun little trackers! B)

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It generally doesn't matter much these days, I believe, as long as you stay away from low friction oils and use high quality fully synthetic. I have found that some oils, like Quaker State, allows my clutch to separate fully from cold and makes every gearchange from the first to the last silent, whereas others, like the Shell mentioned, cause a slight drag when the clutch is cold and always lets me know about the 1-2 changes. But again, I doubt there is much difference in actual protection - the engine is probably the last thing to go on a modern bike more often than not.

 

I definitely agree with you to a certain extent but at the same time after reviewing test results from multiple sources, there are differences. When it comes to race machines or the like that will have the oil changed out after a few hours of use, these differences are trivial. Often those same race machines will have engine rebuilds before an oil can have any real cause/effect.

 

For 'normal' bikes (used lightly, sits for days, used hard, short distances..etc) there are a lot more elements that come into play. Also, the term 'Synthetic' has been abused in marketing and what is actually the composition of the oil varies quite a bit. In turn the result is individual compositions show different characteristics. Between different additives, friction modifiers and a boat load of other things these synthetics are often very different from each other, especially compared to mineral based oils.

 

A good example is a couple of predominant racing sponsor oils (Royal Purple & Lucas) in tests often don't fare well at all!

 

Now all that being said, what I'm not finding is clear reason why I would use lets say Motul $10 oil vs. their $17 oil? I suspect, I simply won't know without actually using them.

 

Interestingly enough Eirik, Quaker State doesn't offer a motorcycle specific oil here in the US. I think they have in the past but not presently. Wonder why these companies sell something in some countries but not in others?

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The Quaker State isn't bike specific and they even refuse to call it synthetic although I guess most makers would. As long as an oil doesn't inhabit friction modifiers, I'm not overly concerned about the oil I use. Even using very, very cheap mineral car oils have I noticed anything special regarding wear. My old KZ400 twin didn't even need valves adjusted at its service interval despite living a hard life of short hop riding even every day through winter and snow. And the oil was the cheapest I could get. I replaced the oil every 3-4000 miles.

 

A taxi fleet in, I believe, NYC, was driven with various oils, ranging from Mobil 1 (top ranked afterwards) to cheap minerals. Although there were far more sludge after 60,000 miles in the engines that had been driven with cheap oils, there were no measurable differences in wear.

 

There was a bloke who rode more than 200,000 miles on a Fireblade, running cheap oils.

 

There were Honda CB750s making it to 200,000 miles without overhaul - and the oil available in the 60s and 70s weren't exactly fantastic by current standards.

 

In 1978, Honda said the oil were to be changed every 7500 miles/12000 km in the CX500 and GL1000 engines. That was with ordinary 10W40 SE mineral oils.

 

Renault has sold cars for a decade that are supposed to have their FIRST oil change after 20,000 miles/30,000 km!

 

Is a better oil better? Definitely. I use high quality oil in my car because I drive 10,000 miles per year and only change the oil once. Lots of cold starts during winter as well. In my bikes, I think it matter less. I never to short rides and I never ride in freezing temps and I do not race. I may hit redline a few times every ride, but I do not live there.

 

There are more things to consider. For instance, the oil ages twice as quickly in 2nd gear as in top gear (give or take per model of bike). Cold starts is the main cause of wear, bit for engine and oil. Idling cause the same stress. Sitting in a cue on a hot day is murder.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the use will determine the need for how good the oil must be. Gentle use and frequent changes doesn't require the same as hard use and infrequent changes.

 

Finally - costly oil doesn't have to be good and cheap oils doesn't have to be bad.

 

Gawd, I'm rambling ;)

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What I'm trying to say is that the use will determine the need for how good the oil must be. Gentle use and frequent changes doesn't require the same as hard use and infrequent changes.

 

Finally - costly oil doesn't have to be good and cheap oils doesn't have to be bad.

 

Gawd, I'm rambling ;)

 

I didn't think you were rambling, a lot of very good points there! The portion of your response I quoted is probably the most important. A good like example is right now my precious ZX is running Motul 3000 mineral. At the 600 mile service, that was my choice to continue the breakin process. The moment I got the OEM oil out of the crank the bike woke up like a demon! Everything got 'better', shifting, quieter engine operation and the more miles I put on it, the better it gets. But I guess what I'm saying is there's absolutely nothing wrong with this dino oil from my experience so far and maybe shouldn't even bother going with a synthetic, but my engineering/OCD type mind is always looking for something even better and the metrics to prove it. ;)

 

A lot of the examples you gave I've seen before and I can remember from years ago my old CB350 (that was a great little bike) and CB750 I had really no concept of all of this and I put MASSIVE amounts of California commuter miles on them. Only problems I ever had didn't have anything to do with the engines.

 

But, this ZX is my very first *new* bike and I'm just so thrilled with it thus far, I want to treat it like a queen! :lol:

 

Really appreciate your input! B)

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Treat your ZX to the very best cool.gif Even if it doesn't matter to the longevity of the engine, it'll be worth it if it makes you feel good smile.gif It's for a similar reason people put on coloured drive chains, Ohlins steering dampers and race compound brake pads even if they never lean past 30 degrees or stop harder than .5G. Even I, who see logical as the ideal, have to admit that most of the things I do are pretty darn subjective biggrin.gif

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I've been going through the most ridiculous pursuit of engine oil research. There are SO many choices and even more opinions. But frankly I can’t seem to find an absolute.

 

Some examples are:

Motul 300v Synthetic – Expensive but good.

Repsol Synthetic – No opinions yet.

Mobil 1 Synthetic – Seems largely liked.

AMSOIL – Seems really good but can't get turned off by pushy sales people.

 

So what are your likes?

Hi Gorecki,

I guess you may have reached the

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

Some info there. Regular Shell Rotella seems good too.

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Hi Gorecki,

I guess you may have reached the

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

Some info there. Regular Shell Rotella seems good too.

 

Hey dude! Yes, I've read that before as well as their filters info, good stuff!

 

The whole Rotella conversation is kind of funny, there are lots of people who swear by it and it's the source of MANY really heated dialogs.

 

The one word reason I would absolutely not use it is Warranty! They don't make a motorcycle specific formulation of Rotella and if for whatever reasons I have an engine problem within warranty using such an oil would give them every excuse in the world to claim it's my fault and not fix the problem. This is largely why I've gone the Motul route so far, Kawi offers it up as an oil choice on their own website putting it into the 'preferred' category. But I would suspect any properly certified correct grade motorcycle specific oil would leave them no room for argument, but the Rotella would.

 

I'm really not sure why Shell wouldn't just go ahead and release a motorcycle specific version? They'd probably make a fortune! :rolleyes:

 

I presume you have a 636? :P

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Even I, who see logical as the ideal, have to admit that most of the things I do are pretty darn subjective biggrin.gif

 

Well if anything, it's good to know men are men where ever they are in the world! :lol:

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Results from an Amsoil independent survey on 40W motorcycle oil done in 2005:

1.)Amsoil

2.)Mobile Racing 4T

3.)Maxima Maxim 4 Ultra

4.)Polaris Victory

5.)Valvoline 4 stroke

6.)Motul 300V

7.)Castrol RS R4 4T

8.)Suzuki 4 Cycle Syn Racing

9.)Spectro Platinum SX4

10.)Lucas High Performance

11.)Torco T-4SR

12.)Honda HP4

13.)Belray EXS Superbike

14.)Royal Purple

15.)Pennzoil Motocycle Oil

This includes Viscosity, High temp/ high shear, Zinc content, wear protection, gear performance, Oxidation stability, Volatility, acid neutralization, foaming tendancy, rust protection, pricing and wet clutch compatibility. I use Mobile Racing 4T.

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Results from an Amsoil independent survey on 40W motorcycle oil done in 2005:

 

1.)Amsoil

 

 

 

Where is the ROFLMAO emoticon when you need it laugh.gif

 

 

 

15.)Pennzoil Motocycle Oil

 

Interestingly, that was the only oil that didn't leak past the shabby shift shaft seal on my KZ400. It also provided smoother shifts and oil consumption was lower. It was a M/C specific semi-synt.

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They did another as well in 2009 and what was odd about the results is most rankings changed in big ways, Motul dropped by 6, Spectro by 9..etc Oh..but AMS still showed as #1 :rolleyes:

 

If anyone REALLY wants to get wacko about oils, check this place out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com the folks on those forums are making me look like I'm passive about the whole thing. :lol:

 

I keep finding more and more data, but I'm thinking I still may stick with Motul because everyone says the 300V smells like banana's, sounds like a good reason to use it...right? :blink:;)

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I'm thinking I still may stick with Motul because everyone says the 300V smells like banana's, sounds like a good reason to use it...right? :blink:;)

 

I've used Motul 300V exclusively in my track bike for years but then I like bananas as well.

 

Rain

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I'm really not sure why Shell wouldn't just go ahead and release a motorcycle specific version? They'd probably make a fortune! rolleyes.gif

 

 

Shell does its the Shell Advance Ultra 4T 5W-20 and the 4T 40W-60, They've been designed specifically for 4 stroke motorcycles

 

http://www.shell-racing.com.au/shell_advance_4T_5W-20_racing_engine_oil.html

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Shell does its the Shell Advance Ultra 4T 5W-20 and the 4T 40W-60, They've been designed specifically for 4 stroke motorcycles

 

http://www.shell-racing.com.au/shell_advance_4T_5W-20_racing_engine_oil.html

 

Why the heck don't they do that here?!? :o

 

It would stop all of the debates people have over the Rotella. We have Shell everything else, heck I just filled my bike with Shell 93 'V-Power' 20 minutes ago! :wacko:

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I've used Motul 300V exclusively in my track bike for years but then I like bananas as well.

 

Rain

 

This banana's for you!

 

 

 

 

You can remove it if you want, just thought I'd continue the banana theme. :lol:

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You can remove it if you want, just thought I'd continue the banana theme. :lol:

...that was a good suggestion.

 

Rain

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You can remove it if you want, just thought I'd continue the banana theme. :lol:

...that was a good suggestion.

 

Rain

 

The study I was looking at was the'09 study...I used Motul exclusively in my '04 CBR1000RR until the bearings failed last year during a track session. I was looking for a good oil to use in both my in line 4 and twin when I contacted a friend at Castrol who was in racing development for ten years. He said that one of the important things to look at was Zinc content.The Zinc becomes the sacrificial lamb between metallic surfaces. He said there is no evidence to show how much is optimal for motorcycle engines but it is an improtant ingredient.

Granted, It does seem funny that Amsoil would be number one in their independent study unless in fact they were confident they made the best f'n oil on the planet. I searched the internet and could not find one other oil company that was willing to put their oil up against 10 or 15 brands in an independent test. Maybe some of you could find one.

I chose Mobil 1 4T synthetic 10W 40 because in the survey it came in 2nd and is readily available at any auto parts store in the U.S. I don't have to wait for a motorcycle dealer to open or an independent dealer to ship it. I'm not a fan of Banana's.

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Mobil 1 seems to be consistantly liked!

 

I used Motul exclusively in my '04 CBR1000RR until the bearings failed last year during a track session.

 

Throw out bearing? Friction have to do with it? What blend of Motul?

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Your bearing failure was most likely a result of an assembly error. German magazine MOTORRAD do long term tests, now up to 100,000 km but typically 50k. Back in the 70s and 80s, however, it was mostly 25,000 km.

 

And they had many failures not typical for that particular model. Like a spun big end bearing on a CB900F and a crank bearing worn all the way through to bare aluminium on a CBX550F. Or a total failure of one of the end ball bearings on a GS850G. Or almost destroyed valve guides on a GS1000E. Or a broken piston ring on a Z1000ST. All of these failures were deemed, after scrutiny, to be either a result of material defects or wrong assembly/tolerances from new. Better oils may have prolonged the life a little in these engines, but they were never going to last a long time.

 

Other things, like pitted pinions in the gearboxes, however, could no doubt have survived longer with an oil that could take more pressure before failing and breaking its film.

 

The problem with low friction oils is that they can cause problems for the clutch (slipping) but mostly because the gearbox will break down the molecule chains rapidly, destroying the oil's protective capacity. There is no guarantee that a motorcycle specific oil will be better for protecting your engine than a car specific oil, but that requires an "old-fashioned" oil without slipper modifiers. Hence using oil made for bikes should at least guarantee that you don't end up with a really poor oil since it has to cope with the gearbox' shearing effect.

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/quote]

 

----

I presume you have a 636? :P

Yes, I still have the 06 636 and use regular Rotella oil since first oil change.

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