Question For Css Uk

[Ollie]

More of an interest thing than a straight up question actually. I did level1 at Silverstone South and was just wondering if the turn points that were marked down are what you guys and racers would use when on a hot lap. I recently watched the SBK guys there but sadly paid little attention to when they turned in. I know its slightly different in a race scenario as they may have to cover passing lines e.t.c

 

The reason I ask is that on reflection I think with the speeds I was doing at the school I could have afforded to turn in later and quicker. At the time I was paying too much attention on each drill so was glad to have a visual aid. So in short the question is were those turn points what would be used at race speed or more of a compromise due to the nature of the school having mixed abilities on mixed bikes?

 

I hope the question isn't too confusing or outright stupid! Perhaps I'm just showing how naive a rider I am.

 

I've you manage to make anything out of the garbage above it would be good to hear from you. Cheers

 

Ollie

 

 

 

 

[Bullet]

oh you'd have thought after a day at the school, you'd realise we're not going to just answer, yes/no and the reason why did you? No, that would just be way to easy.

 

So, question to you. If I ride into a turn say 20mph quicker, would I be able to turn in at the same point? Now, consider how a bike actually corners here, does it turn until its leaned over? will the riders ability to turn a bike affect your turn point?

 

It's probably me worth sharing with you, race bikes are normally setup to turn faster and have tyres that enable this as well, but if we take these aspects out of the equation for now, we'll add them back in later once the basics are clear.

 

So, let's answer the early questions, and work it through.

 

Bullet

[Ollie]

Haha guilty as charged, worth a shot though!

 

-To ride in quicker but turn at the same point you'd have to increase lean angle.

-No, the bike doesn't turn until counter steer is applied and the bike leans as a result.

-Yes, the riders turn point will be determined by how quickly/comfortably the rider can turn.

 

Ollie

 

 

 

[Bullet]

Haha guilty as charged, worth a shot though!

 

-To ride in quicker but turn at the same point you'd have to increase lean angle.

-No, the bike doesn't turn until counter steer is applied and the bike leans as a result.

-Yes, the riders turn point will be determined by how quickly/comfortably the rider can turn.

 

Ollie

 

 

 

 

God loves a tryer mate. Hats off for a good attempt.

 

so answers, No1, not really, but how about having to turn earlier? No2, the bike really only turns when its leaned over, the countersteer gets it to turn, but as the bike begins to lean only begins to turn. No3, so, yes, we're now track, yes, now clearly the quicker we can turn the bike, the quicker it gets onto it side, the quicker it actually turns.

 

So, now, back to question 1 again, now we have defined the bike only really turns when leaned over fully and in its line, and we've discussed ability to turn quicker, let's think about that speed thing again. if we're going faster, and our ability to turn remains constant, what will we have to change?

 

Bullet

[Ollie]

Right here goes

 

Our Turn Point! As in earlier!

 

My answer of adding more lean is wrong because then we'd be asking too much of the tyre.

 

Ollie

[Bullet]

Right here goes

 

Our Turn Point! As in earlier!

 

My answer of adding more lean is wrong because then we'd be asking too much of the tyre.

 

Ollie

 

Yes mate, normally earlier. Now how much earlier depends on many things,some of which we've covered above so let's not over complicate it, to much, but in addition as I said race bikes turn quicker anyway, so it's not loads earlier as one offsets the other, but generally as pace rises you turn in earlier.

 

So the answer is wrong about lean angle per say, becuase if we think about it, if we turn at same point but are going faster as we now appreciate the bike travels further before it turns, so really the rider would basically miss their apex and run wide. more angle would be require to get back to the apex but you'd never make it as they're normally on the limit of lean and available grip anyway.

 

Make sense?

 

Bullet

[Ollie]

Perfect sense. Cheers Bullet

 

So going back to my case, specifically at Stowe, I could have kept the same sugarfree speed and turned later and quicker as I was nowhere near the limit or increased my speed and turned earlier. The problem I was finding at Stowe was if I turned on the marker I was apexing too soon so then had to handrail the kerb whilst waiting to roll on the throttle.

 

Ollie

[Bullet]

Perfect sense. Cheers Bullet

 

So going back to my case, specifically at Stowe, I could have kept the same sugarfree speed and turned later and quicker as I was nowhere near the limit or increased my speed and turned earlier. The problem I was finding at Stowe was if I turned on the marker I was apexing too soon so then had to handrail the kerb whilst waiting to roll on the throttle.

 

Ollie

 

Tricky corner stowe as you approach at some speed, I would think a WSBK or MotoGP bike would arrive at 175mph plus. In your example, you could probably added say 5mph more, turned at same point and at same rate and made a later apex. Or you could gone deeper and had more drive of turn, or turned slower and not get to your lean angle so quickly..

 

The biggest challenge with that turn is that the Apex is blind and very late too so the temptaton is to go straight to the inside kerb when you just need to let bike run in a little wider to start with.. Level 2 will help with the visual side of that problem.

 

Bullet

[Ollie]

Yeh level 2 will have to wait til next year unfortunately.

 

Cheers for the help Bullet, much appreciated.

 

Ollie

 

[Bullet]

Yeh level 2 will have to wait til next year unfortunately.

 

Cheers for the help Bullet, much appreciated.

 

Ollie

 

 

 

School's nearly out now for 2010 in UK my friend anyway, only one more date left, so we'll look forward to seeing you in 2011.

 

No problem on the help, you're very welcome.

 

Bullet