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Cobie Fair

Section On Tuning/power Commanders, Etc.

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I may have asked this before, don't recall much of a response, so I'm going to ask again.

 

The Dynojet test engineer, Tim Johnson was (and is) a coach. He also has been working for Dynojet for some years, he's an engineer, and can put concepts in a language anyone can understand (not all engineers excel at this skill).

 

It might not warrant a full section, but do you guys have questions for him, if I get him up here?

 

Lurkers can chime in too on this, in case they'd like to see it. If I get 1-2 responses, won't bother.

 

One reason this came to mind again we I recently asked Tim about the difference in 2 forces, centrifigal and centripetal. Crystal clear definitions, just up my alley.

 

Let me know on this.

 

Best,

Cobie

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Cobie I think this could be a good thing, the confusion around power commanders and whats the best map to use etc etc would be justification enough. But if he is an engineer that understands the physics of motorcycling as well then all the better.

 

Here is a question and will be relevant in a couple of months when I upgrade to a bike from this century :)

 

After installing a PCV and Autotune can I just down download a map from Dynojet, turn on the Autotune and I will get the absolute maximum from my bike? Not just in outright HP but in smoothness in throttle response and power delivery through the whole curve??? Or should I have a custom map done, then run the Autotune along side to assist in the very minor detail to assist with small changes on race day?

 

This is something that seems to have varying responses to from the various different riders, mechanics/tuners, etc, etc so some more clarification would be good.

 

Or Old school Carby Dynojet Kit, my bike is very lean at idle but perfect up the top of the range... Na just joking, I wont finish that :P

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Would it be fair to say that most will only tune their bikes after getting an aftermarket exhaust?

 

But I would like to know whether there would be any benefit in tuning a bike that is stock standard.

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Cobie I think this could be a good thing, the confusion around power commanders and whats the best map to use etc etc would be justification enough. But if he is an engineer that understands the physics of motorcycling as well then all the better.

 

Here is a question and will be relevant in a couple of months when I upgrade to a bike from this century :)

 

After installing a PCV and Autotune can I just down download a map from Dynojet, turn on the Autotune and I will get the absolute maximum from my bike? Not just in outright HP but in smoothness in throttle response and power delivery through the whole curve??? Or should I have a custom map done, then run the Autotune along side to assist in the very minor detail to assist with small changes on race day?

 

This is something that seems to have varying responses to from the various different riders, mechanics/tuners, etc, etc so some more clarification would be good.

 

Or Old school Carby Dynojet Kit, my bike is very lean at idle but perfect up the top of the range... Na just joking, I wont finish that :P

 

 

+1 on this exact question, I'd like to know this, too.

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Hey guys,

I figured I should probably introduce myself before responding to posts...

 

My name is Tim Johnson. I have been a coach at CSS for the last 8 years. I am also the Product Testing/Development Manager at Dynojet Research. I work in the engineering group and my main responsibilities include testing, developing, and debugging all of our products...mainly the Power Commander.

 

red17 - We make a lot of maps for different exhausts for the popular sportbikes which are good, but you might see small differences bike to bike. This is where the Autotune comes in. It will make a custom map for your bike while you ride, no matter what exhaust, air filter, etc you are running on your bike. It is pretty neat...and I'm not just saying that because I work for Dynojet. The end result of this is improved throttle response, improved overall power, and more even power delivery(smoothness).

 

L&P - True...The main reason guys get a Power Commander is to tune the bike after they get an aftermarket exhaust, however you will get an improvement even with a stock set up. Most bikes are not tuned perfectly from the factory. They have "holes" in the tune from the factory which the Power Commander can tune out.

 

Keep the questions coming guys... :)

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Tim,

I was looking at the quick shifter for the pc3usb for a 04 gsxr 600 would i need the ignition module as well? Some places say yes some say no, is one way better than the other, or is it just plug and play? Thanks.

 

 

Joe

 

PS +1 for the power commander section

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Tim,

 

My question is, on bike like the BMW S100RR and the Kawi ZX-10R which have multiple power modes, does a power commander make a map specific for that power mode? Or does it make a generic one that is used for all the bikes power modes? Also, just to clarify, you can use a Power Commander with even just a slip on exhaust as apposed to a full exhaust? Thanks in advance!

 

Ozzy

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phillyjoey - The Ignition Module is only required for the 8 injector bikes. On the 8 injector bikes the PCIIIUSB only has control of 4 of the 8 injectors, so the Ignition Module is necessary to get a full kill for the quickshift(kills spark). Suzuki didn't start using 8 injectors on the GSXR600 until 2006, so you should not need a Ignition Module for the quickshifter to work.

 

 

ozzyp - Both of those bikes have a fly by wire throttle, which is how they modulate power in the different power modes(and for traction control). When you roll the throttle on, the ECU(computer) gets a "request" to open the throttle blades from the twist grip sensor. The ECU then decides how much it should open the throttle blades based on what power mode you are in, how much you twisted the throttle, what RPM you are at, and what lean angle you are at.

 

On these bikes the Power Commander uses the throttle blade angle sensor(not the twist grip sensor). This tells the Power Commander the amount of throttle the ECU decided to apply when you sent the "request" with the twist grip. Since the Power Commander always knows the position of the throttle blades, it will be able to fuel it consistently no matter what power mode you are in. This means that one map will fuel the bike correctly for all the different power modes.

 

Side note: Some of the bikes with different power modes will also retard ignition timing to modulate the power output. This should not require a different fuel map in the Power Commander.

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ozzyp - You can use a Power Commander for a slip-on or full exhaust, and we usually have maps for both. The Power Commander can even make improvements on a stock bike, which we also make a map for.

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+1 Great idea Cobie, and thank you very much Tim!!!

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FYI to all of you interested....

 

We have just recently released our new Ignition Module to go along with the Power Commander V. The Ignition Module works in conjunction with the Power Commander V and allows you to control ignition timing on your bike. It has a bunch of new features, the most popular of which are a two step launch control, pit lane speed limiter, and RevXtend, which extends the stock rev limit. We now have the ability to RevXtend some of the 8 injector bikes, where previously we could not.

 

It is already released for most of the popular sportbikes, and more will continue to follow as we get them done.

 

We are also now offering an updated Power Commander V for most of the 1 and 2 cylinder bikes which has fuel AND ignition control all in one box. Essentially a Power Commander V and Ignition Module all in one box!

 

Check it out!

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Tinger,

We have been trying to source an M796 so that we can get all the data we need to make a Power Commander V for it.

 

We have heard of guys using a PCV for a M696 on the M796, but we would still like to look at one to verify it. We also need to make maps for it.

 

Any chance you have a M796 and would be able to make it to Vegas or Montana? There would be a free Power Commander V in it for you if you could! ;)

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Tinger,

We have been trying to source an M796 so that we can get all the data we need to make a Power Commander V for it.

 

We have heard of guys using a PCV for a M696 on the M796, but we would still like to look at one to verify it. We also need to make maps for it.

 

Any chance you have a M796 and would be able to make it to Vegas or Montana? There would be a free Power Commander V in it for you if you could! ;)

 

Tim, Unfortunately Vegas is a bit far! Isn't Montana in Canada? LOL. My bike is available if you/dynojet have someone to test for you in the NYC tri-state area.

Traxxion Dynamics did use my forks as a 'guinea pig' for their AK20 kit for 796 monsters. Got a free install/DVD/T-shirt out of it!

 

Ting

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Hi guys,

 

 

nice to say hello here.

I'm from Malaysia, a newbie in the bike world & just got a GSXR 600 (K9). It came with a Two Brother's exhaust & the JuiceBox pro.

 

I have a question on tuning but kinda unrelated to Power Commander :P

 

Recently, i removed the mid box section of the exhaust piping. After that, it has not been running smooth on low revs (below 4k rpm) but feels lighter on higher revs. Kinda 'chocking on low revs'.

I understand that the best option is to re-tune the bike again but the problem is there are no dealers here that does the JuiceBox Pro tuning. It's 95% Power Commander down here.

 

I have contacted TwoBrother's (As the JuiceBox is their product) and the reply just came as "We do not have a map for that" !

 

Also can anyone verify that this JuiceBox Pro is done by Dynojet too ?

 

Thanks guys & any help would be much appreciated.

Appologies if this is posted on the wrong thread.

 

Thanks

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Hello rookie,

 

Dynojet does indeed make the Juice Box Pro for Two Brothers.

 

Removing/changing the mid pipe would definitely necessitate changes to the map in your Juice Box Pro. The good news is that you can import Power Commander maps into your Juice Box Pro using the Top Tune software.

 

I would suggest downloading some maps from the Power Commander website for your bike. You can load multiple maps into the Juice Box Pro and switch between them to see which one works the best.

 

The best solution, obviously, would be to take your bike to a dyno eguipped tuning center and get it tuned with your new pipe configuration, but I realize that is tough sometimes.

 

Hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

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Timmer,

 

I read that I could add 15hp to my ZX-10R by reflashing my ECU per ECUnleashed. If true, what benefits could adding a Power Commander on top of that bring?

 

Thanks,

Ozzy

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Hey ozzyp,

 

Sorry for the late response. For some reason I didn't get notified that you posted.

 

The ECUnleased reflash and the Power Commander are both trying to accomplish the same major goal, which is to get your bike fueled properly. Proper fueling is the major factor that will affect how much peak horsepower your bike will make.

 

If you get the bike fueled properly with an ECUnleashed reflash, then the Power Commander will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Likewise, if you get the bike fueled properly with the Power Commander, the ECUnleashed reflash will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Both of these products do the same thing, they just do it in different ways.

 

It is not uncommon to see a 10% gain in peak horsepower after you've installed an aftermarket exhaust and get the bike fueled properly. A 10% gain on a ZX10 making 150hp(or so) would be 15hp.

 

It is important to note that both the Power Commander products and ECUnleashed reflash have other features that attract customers. I would be glad to expand on these if you are curious, but I wanted to keep my response short and to the point.

 

I hope that answers your question. Please let me know if you have any others!

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Hey ozzyp,

 

Sorry for the late response. For some reason I didn't get notified that you posted.

 

The ECUnleased reflash and the Power Commander are both trying to accomplish the same major goal, which is to get your bike fueled properly. Proper fueling is the major factor that will affect how much peak horsepower your bike will make.

 

If you get the bike fueled properly with an ECUnleashed reflash, then the Power Commander will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Likewise, if you get the bike fueled properly with the Power Commander, the ECUnleashed reflash will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Both of these products do the same thing, they just do it in different ways.

 

It is not uncommon to see a 10% gain in peak horsepower after you've installed an aftermarket exhaust and get the bike fueled properly. A 10% gain on a ZX10 making 150hp(or so) would be 15hp.

 

It is important to note that both the Power Commander products and ECUnleashed reflash have other features that attract customers. I would be glad to expand on these if you are curious, but I wanted to keep my response short and to the point.

 

I hope that answers your question. Please let me know if you have any others!

 

 

Tim,

 

I am debating on which of these routes I should go so any further info would be greatly appreciated. I would like to know the pros and cons of both in order to make an educated purchase.

 

Thanks,

Ozzy

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Hey Ozzy,

 

I did some digging and apparently my previous post about the ECUnleashed was a bit incorrect. The ECUnleased guys are not messing with changing fuel. It sounds like they change ignition timing a bit and fly-by-wire settings a bit. There is probably a little horsepower to be had there, but fuel control is usually where you see the biggest horsepower gains. It also costs about the same as a Power Commander(around $400).

 

In fact, one of our racer's got the ECUnleashed stuff, but still had to run the Power Commander to get the fuel control he needed.

 

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

By the way...have you seen the new Tuning section on the forum?

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Hey Timmer,

 

i have a 999R and and in trying to setup and map the pc3usb on my bike, advance map for each cylinder, the mechanics didn't manage to get it done the right way never.

 

do you have any specific instruction for my bike and since an advance map should be done, what is the correct procedure to do it?

 

the tuners in Cyprus have almost zero experience with the Ducati engines and unfortunately they tune them like the I4 Japanese bikes!!!!!

 

Some said to me as well that they fitted the new pcv on their 05-06 model Ducatis and they did the autotune as well! Is something like that possible?

 

i'm looking for the best solution for my race bike and i hope you'll have some info to give me!!!!

 

thanks

 

 

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