He Likes Playing With His What?

[Crash106]

Hello Folks,

 

I've been playing with my throttle again! I just can't leave it alone. Lately, it's gotten really bad: I'll just be riding down a straight road and next thing I know, I'm seeing how little I have to roll off to make the bike's weight shift forward. Then, I'll get an urge, and I'll have to see how little it takes to make my thing, my bike, stand up and tilt a bit onto the back tire.

 

Then, I started playing with the throttle in the corners! I was trying to see just how little forward weight shift was needed to make the bike want to turn going in at the entrance. Then I tried to see how close I could keep the throttle to being on, without it actually rolling on. That way, I could play with tiny roll offs and tiny roll ons. Roll off--just a smidgen. Turn. Let the bike settle. Roll on--just a smidgen. Even when I didn't do it exactly right, it still felt good.

 

At first I would roll off entering a corner and the bike would just hang there, lifeless, dangling halfway between falling in and holding a line. It was pitiful. It would just hang there for, gosh, a second or two! By then, half the time, I'd already blown the corner. Zoom. Past the apex. Gosh, I guess I should roll on now. Then it camne to me, Ah-hah!

 

I started seeing how soon AFTER turning I could roll on. How MUCH did I need to let the motor rest before I could use it again. I found there is a point, some certain amount of time, different in every corner, before I really COULD roll on. Not that I'm not ready to go again right away, but the bike just didn't always feel settled, it wasn't always pointed where I wanted it to be pointed. You know? Hard to explain. Now, the less I do, the more it goes like this: Roll off--just a smidge. Turn. The bike is already settled so roll on--just a smidge.

 

So, that's my story. I hope I don't go blind from riding like this, but it just feels so darned good. I don't know how to make myself stop. But braking is a subject for another post.

[ktk_ace]

My take is its just normal trial and error in finding the perfect line/power delivery ?

 

even on the same bike, different riding styles and riders make it perform differently (slight but noticable)

 

Different bikes, woah, thats not my territory anymore...

 

maybe someone else would like to answer that?

 

 

 

 

[Jasonzilla]

Experimenting makes a lot of things that you've never realized to light. It helps you get to know, not only your bike, but your riding better.

 

A couple of things though. If the bike "wasn't always pointed where I wanted it to be pointed," you're not done with your steering input. You're doing it right. Finish your input, then get back on the throttle.

One thing I've honestly just about given up on is explaining to people how quickly a bike is "settled" when you get back on the throttle. It's like taking a boat out of a rough ocean with all the waves and instantly putting it in a calm lake. It's a comfort thing though. If you don't feel it, keep doing what makes you comfortable.

[PoppaNoDoz]

So this is a new discipline for me. I've done track days since 2005 or so and I've ALWAYS done it wrong. My old and incorrect process was position body, downshift, brake, apply pressure to the bars while simultaneously rolling on. Yes, I always went wide, and I kind of hit a wall. I basically would roll on, hang on for dear life. I didn't roll on consistently, I would roll on, hold, roll on some more.

 

So we're on the same page, here's what I THINK the correct process is: position body, downshift, brake, apply pressure to the bars, once my line is set THEN roll on. The theory is that I SHOULD be able to enter the corner faster than I have been (since I was basically "over stopping" and then getting on the gas too early).

 

It FEELS like I'm coasting into a corner, and I am able to dive in and basically NEVER go wide, but it still feels weird. Yes, it steers MUCH easier, but I think I am so used to fighting the bike while on the throttle it just feels strange. I am committed to doing it right, I just want to make sure that what I think is right in fact actually is.

 

Somewhere along the way I got the idea that motorcycles steered the same way Jetskis do: They don't turn unless you are on the gas - this is an OLD and entrenched bad habit so I could use a little encouragement that I'm doing the right thing with my relearning.

[Jasonzilla]

 

So we're on the same page, here's what I THINK the correct process is: position body, downshift, brake, apply pressure to the bars, once my line is set THEN roll on. The theory is that I SHOULD be able to enter the corner faster than I have been (since I was basically "over stopping" and then getting on the gas too early).

 

 

Close. The most important thing here is that you shift your body position before braking and turning. One less thing to worry about, and bike stability isn't compromised while you're shifting and turning.

 

It's taught that you should brake, then downshift after heavy braking. Then you can blip and get the proper RPM's while going into the corner. I don't concern myself with when I shift, but when I blip. I can downshift early into the process, but I'm not going to blip the throttle until before I let off the clutch to go into the corner. You can hold the clutch in as long as you want. Letting it out is the key.

 

If anyone can give me a good reason as to why I should shift later, please chime in.

 

And as much as you interact here, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that rolling on while turning is one of the bigger no-no's in riding (see how I threw it in anyway?).

[PoppaNoDoz]

The thing is that had been my practice for YEARS so unlearning it is difficult. My bad habit had been very specific, I had been rolling on when I put pressure on the bars - simultaneously. Now I realize that I should 1) Tip the bike in 2) hit my "perfect line" and 3) then roll on.

 

 

 

Also, I am not convinced that there is a set rule that says "roll on before the apex, after the apex, at the apex" so much as "when you have your line set." This begs the question "set for what?" Do I have to be pointed at the turn exit before I can roll on? Do I need to be pointed at the apex before I roll on? When I watch racers I agree that they are tipping the bike in and coasting (in gear, not in neutral or with the clutch in as far as I can tell) but they do NOT all roll on at the same point - the same racer doesn't even roll on at the same time on the same corner in the same race.