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Why Are We Weighting The Outside Peg?

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I enjoyed the read. Not sure it really made me any wiser, but it was a good read nonetheless - you are good with words¬†ūüĎć

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25 minutes ago, faffi said:

I enjoyed the read. Not sure it really made me any wiser, but it was a good read nonetheless - you are good with words¬†ūüĎć

Thank you, sir!  (I think - lol)

The bottom line was that there seemed to be no disadvantage to weighting the outside peg and there was some math to imply that from a physics perspective, it does add stability.

Cheers,

Steve

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6 hours ago, faffi said:

That helped a lot for an old and slow man¬†ūüĎĆ

That made my morning! 

Because I've read some your posts in other threads - I am doubting the "old & slow" stuff however...

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Well, his opening claim that "riders steer with the pegs" is blatantly false.  No one steers with just the pegs - the NO BS Bike proves that.  And I think the video author knows it too....

His techniques seem to be for slow speed operations - as in all his examples, he is steering, not counter-steering.  

Physics doesn't lie - peg weighting affects the rotational moment around the CG of the bike and this is can be used effectively in cornering requiring counter steering.

Cheers,

Steve

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This is surely stirring the pot!!   Not sure if those posting are racers, track day riders, have taken any training with CSS or just enthusiasts.

I've done 2 days of the school in  California....because i had to to qualify for Code Race. Then i did 2 days of Code Race right after.

My experience with weighting pegs....the outside in particular....was with exiting a tight corner and hard on the gas while leaned over.

My other experience with the pegs is in a tight chicane where i need to change direction quickly....so i move the bike under me....there isn't enough time to go "touring" on the track!

I'm curious how many have actually perfected just getting through the turns cleanly and with proper form?   Slow in...Fast out!

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I'm not saying "not" to use the pegs - in fact I advocate it - please see my post above, but peg weighting ALONE will not steer the bike.

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If/when we get you guys to a school, and if you haven't ridden it, ride the NO B/S bike.  It really has to be ridden to get the full experience, no amount of talking seems to take the place of this training aide.

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11 minutes ago, Cobie Fair said:

If/when we get you guys to a school, and if you haven't ridden it, ride the NO B/S bike.  It really has to be ridden to get the full experience, no amount of talking seems to take the place of this training aide.

i can imagine. When was at Streets doing my Code race school with Dylan, it was down.

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If we get you out, or even if you are near us and can come and ride it, let me know, we can squeeze that in, takes about 10 min.  I knew the theory, but my first test drive was in front of our shop, so I took a spin on it (full squid mode of course).  Nearly hit a parked car!!

Gotta ride it to believe it.  

Any data on the test drive above is protected by the squid clause.

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I'll expand on this some -- weighting the pegs by moving the body is vaguely effective. You see this in Dylan's video on youtube about the No BS bike. You're moving the bike's center of gravity very slightly and so it'll 'self counter steer' just slightly to compensate. Weighting the pegs without doing this is basically pointless. Think about using your calf to go 'tippy toe' while standing on the ground -- you're not pushing on the earth any more than before (equal and opposite reaction). In a similar way, look at astronauts in zero G if you can, it's an amazing example of these physics properties -- they can move their arms and legs internally, but they can't turn around without something to put the counter force on or a form of propulsion. 

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1 hour ago, yakaru said:

I'll expand on this some -- weighting the pegs by moving the body is vaguely effective. You see this in Dylan's video on youtube about the No BS bike. You're moving the bike's center of gravity very slightly and so it'll 'self counter steer' just slightly to compensate. Weighting the pegs without doing this is basically pointless. Think about using your calf to go 'tippy toe' while standing on the ground -- you're not pushing on the earth any more than before (equal and opposite reaction). In a similar way, look at astronauts in zero G if you can, it's an amazing example of these physics properties -- they can move their arms and legs internally, but they can't turn around without something to put the counter force on or a form of propulsion. 

When we "weight the pegs," it's not just 'moving the body', is it? 

Do we not actively shift the application point of some our body weight to a lower point on the motorcycle's frame?  If your bum is lightly riding on the seat and your weight is on the peg wouldn't the resulting moment about the peg would be proportional to how much weight we actually applied?  Or are there so many other forces involved at track speeds that this is completely negligible?  

I'm guessing for Trials and other slow speed activities, it's a lot more effective as those guys don't even rate a seat.

  

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18 hours ago, Cobie Fair said:

If/when we get you guys to a school, and if you haven't ridden it, ride the NO B/S bike.  It really has to be ridden to get the full experience, no amount of talking seems to take the place of this training aide.

Hopefully it will be "up" and available at Barbers!

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27 minutes ago, 53Driver said:

Hopefully it will be "up" and available at Barbers!

hope so.....BArber is a great track. Offers alot for rider training. Elevations, blind corners-ish....great surface too

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Don't really need a NO-BS-Bike to proof the point. Had to buy some catlitter last week, car was not available, cat got impatient, so I took my fireblade to get some... anyway.. I put this big bag on the tank, it turned out that I could only just about reach the handlebars, so on my way home I could only countersteer by conciously leaning forward pushing one handlebar at a time, just by shifting my weight the bike kept going almost straight ahead, at least I would have never made it around any corners, even in slow traffic.

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Back to the topic Heading..."Why Are We Weighting The Outside Peg?

i use that technique when racing. I use it to accelerate sooner and/or when i change my line.

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I think we need to clarify whether we are talking about "weighting" the outside peg or talking about PRESSING on the peg.

Pressing down on the peg with your muscles to force you knee up into/against the tank can improve your lock on and that is a nice benefit.

Using the outside lower leg as a strength base for pivot steering is not weighting the peg, it is using the peg as the most stable pivot point. (Just standing on the peg doesn't work for pivot steering because that is not the same as locking your lower leg to the bike.)

If a rider senses an improvement in the bike's handling from peg pressure/weight, it is most likely because they are in reality locked on better OR have changed their body position to being lighter in the seat over bumps OR have changed the location of their Center Of Mass (I.e., hanging off more to the inside) but these are secondary effects and NOT produced by just putting more weight on a peg.

For chicanes and fast transitions, pivot steering is an excellent technique to be able to steer more decisively and strongly and get the bike over faster. Putting weight on the pegs during a transition will lighten your weight in the seat which allows you to slide your hips over more easily and quickly and that ALSO can quicken the transition. This can be used in conjunction with other body position techniques that we teach in Level 3.

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Thanks coach - I'm missing something important here.  

I'll do more research, but this may have to wait until 27 May.  

Happy 5/5!

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