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vorontzov

Things I Learned At Superbike School

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A guy ahead of me was going into Turn 1 faster than I had ever gone, and I thought -well, if he can do it, I can do it! But he didn't make it, he went straight off into a runoff area! Suddenly I had to decide whether to follow him off or turn. I made the turn (barely) but I definitely learned a lesson, you have to ride your own ride!

 

We see it at the school, of course - a rider gets passed and then gets a little red mist going - but as everyone here seems to have learned, it can certainly fire up all sorts of SRs to suddenly find yourself entering a turn at Mach 10!

 

I wanted to comment a little more on that for quite some time now, Hotfoot. I think when we see a fast(er) rider we tend to assume that rider's superior skills, but that's not necessarily always a correct assumption. For all I know, that faster rider is clueless, and is already in trouble. Obviously, trying to follow the example of someone who is already in trouble is unwise.

 

Also, I think the temptation to follow faster riders should be resisted because doing so develops a following habit, which in turn leads to developing the "follower mentality". Being in control of one's own ride, on the other hand, helps to develop the "independent rider" mentality, which is the strong psychological position that will inevitably lead to improved riding.

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This one can help to save some major $$$$:

 

XXVII. Drills can be practiced off-track

 

(This is one of the best bits of wisdom I got from my coach.)

 

In fact, some or even all of them can be practiced without even being in a saddle of a motorcycle. My current favorite - Wide View - really adds flavor to my everyday bicycle commute. So do the 2-Step and 3-Step drills.

 

While street-riding a motorcycle, I love practicing Knee-To-Knee and Hip Flick, as well as all the visual drills and other body position drills. Throttle Control, being probably the most important drill, should also be practiced regularly.

 

Additionally, every drill can also be practiced through visualization.

 

 

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doing so develops a following habit, which in turn leads to developing the "follower mentality".

Vorontzov;

 

Great quote;

This has been a strong thread.

 

Rain

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This has been a strong thread.

 

Rain

 

 

Thank you, Rain. I feel the thread petering out - temporarily, I'm sure - but I still have a few "notes to self" left to share. Here's one:

 

XXVIII. Don't beat yourself up

 

In my case, easier said than done. When I do something I perceive as an error / failure, I can't help punishing myself with the enthusiasm worthy of Spanish Inquisition. During my levels 1 and 2, that habit led to a lot of self-induced stress, because I expected to get to champion level by the end of day one. Gradually I let go, and only then the true learning had began.

 

I thought it was just me, but when I was doing the next two levels, I met a guy who was at his levels 1 and 2, and sure enough, by the end of day one he was pissed at himself: "I thought I was a better rider than that". I told him, from my own experience, that he would become a better rider by the end of day two: he just needed to stop beating himself up and start trusting his coach. But that's how I realized that I'm not unique in having great expectations early into my training, and then beating myself up for not living up to my own standards.

 

All of this is useless. Just do the drills to the best of your ability and don't worry about anything else. No matter where you are in your riding, it will improve.

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Hey Vorontzov,

 

This really is a great thread. There is a lot of useful advise for new riders, street or track. I've also been doing the same drills you've mentioned...esp the vision drills since they can be done during slow days at work :D The 2 and 3 step can also be done driving a car.

 

That is excellent advise/wisdom about not beating up on yourself. Positive thinking can really make a difference. Thinking back on what I've done right and improved upon most can remind me of how much I've improved from the very little time on the track doing the drills. This in turn makes me want to practice more off the track and see how fast I could go with a little more improvement. It really is a good cycle. The negative mindset however, leads nowhere. Maybe even backwards! Keith mentions a couple time about negative thinking and not getting into that habit. He mentions it in reference to remembering what you do out on the track that may have caused errors, not your errors themselves.

 

Another piece of advice is to not think too much about your errors while you're out on the track, as this lapse in attention can just cause more errors. Just make a mental note and focus on the current task.

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Hi Vorontzov, great to hear your observations! Are these your cumulative observations after doing Levels 1, 2 and 3? The Pick Up drill sounds like it had a big impact, I'm looking forward to doing that myself now. But in the mean time I've also had a flick through TOTW II trying to find where the Pick Up is mentioned, is it actually mentioned there? (Anyone?)

 

On the subject of clutchless downshifts, I have never been inclined to do that because I wasn't sure of the effect on the drivetrain. Is it really safe to do that? No chance of causing gear/selector fork damage etc.? Maybe I should start giving it a try, I know how much attention a quickshifter frees up attention for upshifts!

 

Fluro on the streets - I'm not convinced. Reason being that someone won't see you if they're not looking. Wearing fluro doesn't change that.

 

Thou shalt not race - very true, one of the first pieces of advice that I received as a new rider was not to try and keep up with faster riders. But I think it can also be beneficial to be "pushed" a little... not riding over your head... but having a bit of a competitive sort of goal. For instance I recall one track session in particular where I was first on track and it was by far the most focused I had been all day. The reason was that I didn't want to hold up any riders behind me! No one passed me in that session either, and that usually doesn't happen. I found that having that reason just helped me to keep concentrating and push that bit more. A bit different now that I've been to CSS since I can more reliably deconstruct individual turns and so I have goals for each individual corner, rather than just trying to "ride faster". But I still sometimes wonder if there comes a point where the only way to make significant progress is to push yourself a little, maybe by actually doing some racing? Maybe I'll find out one day, but that day is a ways off at the moment.

 

Keep on thinking!

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Mugget, I could be wrong but I think the pickup drill is mentioned in the books when talking about slides?? Or sliding the rear??

 

I seem to remember reading that the pick up drill works nicely to sort out a rear end slide, if it does not prevent it in the first place...

 

Like I said, I could be wrong... I might have read that on this forum...

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Mugget, I could be wrong but I think the pickup drill is mentioned in the books when talking about slides?? Or sliding the rear??

 

I seem to remember reading that the pick up drill works nicely to sort out a rear end slide, if it does not prevent it in the first place...

 

Like I said, I could be wrong... I might have read that on this forum...

I don't recall the pickup drill being discussed in the books, but it's definitely taught in school, and mentioned here multiple times.

 

Kai

 

Which reminds me to find TOTW2 and reread it. Again.

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Actually, I think the Pick-Up as a technique is discussed the most thoroughly in the "Soft science", only the drill isn't named as "Pick-Up", but rather the book refers to it as "drive" (straightening up the motorcycle allows more throttle input on the exit of the turn, and the highest skill is to be able to judge your position in the turn even if you cannot yet see the actual exit – through reference points only.) I suspect the "Pick-Up" drill may not have existed back when the book was first written, or didn't have that name.

 

Mugget, what I've been jotting down here so far were mostly mental notes I brought from a level 3 & 4 bootcamp I've taken in New Jersey a few weeks ago (my coach was the formidable Jon Groom, and of course everyone else in the school contributed a lot of wisdom). I took levels 1 & 2 a couple of months before in Las Vegas, (with angelically patient Laura as my coach), but I didn't write anything in the forum because the only observation I brought from there could be boiled down to "Wow", which would make a very short thread. By the way, you've made a great point when you commented on my "Thou shalt not race" commandment. Obviously, any rule must have exceptions (and the rules I've formulated for my personal use must have lots of exceptions). smile.gif

 

A case to the point. One Rule to Rule Them All: "Once the throttle is cracked open, it's rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly through the remainder of the corner". (I swear I actually didn't copy and paste, but typed the whole thing.)

 

Which means, to rephrase it: "don't snap the throttle shut, otherwise you're gonna high-side".

 

And yet, I recently experienced a situation in which only by accidentally breaking the Master Rule I saved my bike's plastics. I was playing with it, running small circles at a lean angle of about 45 degrees at a speed of about 10 mph. Think of it as a "Lean Bike" drill minus the Lean Bike. The front wheel hit a bump and tucked in, and I went down. As I was falling, I let go of the throttle grip and was about to slap the asphalt with my hand in order to minimize the overall impact... but there was nothing to slap, because the ground sort of moved away from me: as soon as I got my hand off the grip, the throttle rolled off, and the bike stood up. As I said, it happened at really low speed, so the bike didn't high-side, but just softly got vertical. I praised the Lord and Sir Isaac Newton, and kept having fun for a couple more hours. (I guess, this can belong to Rainman's bacon-saving thread - "How I saved my bacon by accidentally not following the most important drill.")

 

But what it means also, I suppose, is that it is theoretically possible to prevent a low-side at a lot higher speed, creating a micro-high-side by rolling the throttle about five millimeters or so off when the bike has already lost almost all front wheel traction – as long as there's some traction left in the rear. In fact, I'm pretty sure that can be done, it's just physics. (But it can only be done at the very beginning of the front wheel tuck, because if all the front wheel traction is gone, transferring more weight to the front will only make things worse.) One way or another, would I practice that as a legitimate technique? Probably not right now – not until I'm really good with all the major stuff. (Even though I suspect it would be fun to try as a drill.) And I don't think it's really practical, as it would require super-subtle control in a stressful, attention-consuming situation.

 

- - - - - -

 

 

In some other situations, what may appear as the same thing may be done in a couple of different ways, and for entirely unrelated purposes. For example:

 

XXIX. Count your turns (Part 1)

 

Just count them, to know which turn has which number. This will certainly simplify your communication with your coach. ("Why did you get on the gas so late in turn seven?" – "Uh... which one is seven, again?")

 

Nothing could be more obvious and basic than this, and yet I had to explain this to myself at some point.

 

 

– on the other hand –

 

XXX. Count your turns (Part 2)

 

As in, "how many right and left turns are there on the current track". You'll be surprise what you may discover. A track may have, for example, 75% right turns and 25% left turns, and what that would mean to me is that my tires are a lot warmer on the right sides than on the left, so I may be slightly bolder in my right turns, but should go easier in the left ones.

 

Similar actions, different purposes.

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A case to the point. One Rule to Rule Them All: "Once the throttle is cracked open, it's rolled on evenly, smoothly and constantly through the remainder of the corner". (I swear I actually didn't copy and paste, but typed the whole thing.)

And yet, I recently experienced a situation in which only by accidentally breaking the Master Rule I saved my bike's plastics. I was playing with it, running small circles at a lean angle of about 45 degrees at a speed of about 10 mph. Think of it as a "Lean Bike" drill minus the Lean Bike. The front wheel hit a bump and tucked in, and I went down. As I was falling, I let go of the throttle grip and was about to slap the asphalt with my hand in order to minimize the overall impact... but there was nothing to slap, because the ground sort of moved away from me: as soon as I got my hand off the grip, the throttle rolled off, and the bike stood up. As I said, it happened at really low speed, so the bike didn't high-side, but just softly got vertical. I praised the Lord and Sir Isaac Newton, and kept having fun for a couple more hours. .."How I saved my bacon by accidentally not following the most important drill.")

 

Vorontoz;

Does the throttle rule no.1 have any exceptions?

 

Rain

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On the subject of clutchless downshifts, I have never been inclined to do that because I wasn't sure of the effect on the drivetrain. Is it really safe to do that? No chance of causing gear/selector fork damage etc.? Maybe I should start giving it a try, I know how much attention a quickshifter frees up attention for upshifts!

 

 

I forgot to reply to that. Mugget, there's a whole separate thread on clutchless downshifting somewhere on this forum that includes, among other things, the video of CSS Chief Mechanic Will Eikenberry riding a pretty fast lap on a track, and actively shifting up and down without touching the clutch lever once. The premise is that if the guy who gets to fix the bikes uses clutchless shifting, it's gotta be safe for the bikes. (As Will told me, the video wasn't actually taken to demonstrate the technique, the guys were just testing camera angles... which means he wasn't doing it for show, that's how he actually rides at all times.)

 

I learned the no-clutch shift down from Cobie, who showed it to me and explained it really well. As he said, he doesn't normally use clutchless downshifts when the transmission is in lower gears (1-2-3). Even though it's perfectly doable in any gear, there's usually no need to do the clutchless downshift at low speed. The reason for downshifting without the clutch is to free considerable amount of your attention from working the clutch to more important things in a turn. Clutchless downshifting is easier.

 

Cobie also said something that put my mind at ease about clutchless downshifts: "It either happens, or it doesn't. If you do it right, it happens. If you do it wrong, it doesn't: the transmission simply doesn't click into the lower gear." Which means, if you mis-time it, or mess it up in any other way, there still shouldn't be any negative effect on the bike.

 

(I must add though, it's still possible to break the bike of course by doing something stupid. For example, if a rider kicks the shifter down really hard, it will break, clutch or no clutch.)

 

In case someone reads this and can't find the main thread about clutchless downshifting, here's the description of the technique, the way I do it. (I'm sure this can be improved, so I would be grateful for contributions from more skillful riders.)

 

1. Roll off the gas.

 

2. Apply the front brake.

 

3. Let the bike slow down to the desired speed.

 

4. * Do a really small blip (roll the throttle quickly on and off) - to unload the transmission.

 

5. ** At the very beginning of the blip, click the shifter down.

 

6. Smoothly get back on the gas.

 

That's all it takes. It should take a lot less time to do it than to read about it.

 

 

A couple of additional comments:

 

* The blip should be really, really small. It should produce a barely audible change in the engine sound, or even none at all. There are two ways of doing it:

 

a) while still holding the brake lever, or --

 

b ) after having let go of the brake lever.

 

Initially, doing it with the brake still on may seem easier and smoother. As you further practice the technique, it will probably become equally smooth without the brake applied. If you do it with the brake applied, make sure to not do the uncontrolled additional input on the brake lever as you blip the gas.

 

** Another way of doing it is clicking the shifter down immediately after the blip. I never heard that variation of the technique mentioned anywhere, but to me it seems to work equally well.

 

Try it – you'll love it. If your motorcycle revs up too hard, or dances back and forward on the suspension when you do the blip, it means you're overdoing the blip. If the bike surges forward after you shifted down, it means you've probably mis-timed the blip / shifting or didn't get the speed right.

 

Learning clutchless downshifting should take about an hour of practice, maximum, to a rider who had never tried to do it before. A really experienced / intuitive rider may get it right after a couple of tries. It took me about an hour, I used my own bike, and I was doing it wrong in all sorts of ways for the first 30 min or so, before I figure out the right way of doing it. The bike still rides and shifts no worse than it did before. No signs of damage.

 

As I was learning that, for some reason, slowing down to the proper speed (steps 1 – 3) seemed to be the most attention-consuming part of the technique, so I think the most significant improvement comes from making the deceleration more automatic.

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Breaking the Throttle Rule #1? Say it ain't so!? ohmy.gif

tongue.gif

 

I would say that it's still best practice to repeat Throttle Control Rule #1 another thousand or so times... it seems like what you experienced there Vorontzov, was not an exception to the rule, but rather a situation where the consequences of breaking the rule were very low. Think of it this way - would you have achieved a similar (or even better?) result if you did remain steady on the throttle?

 

But like Rainman says, there are some exceptions (but these are very rare). For example... <snip>

Edit: Sorry it just dawned on me that the question was directed at Vorontzov, didn't mean to go ahead and answer for him but my enthusiasm got the better of me! I removed the text, hopefully it hasn't been read and gives a chance to answer...

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Does the throttle rule no.1 have any exceptions?

 

 

A very profound question, Rain. Let's see now.

 

 

1. In a rear-end slide, it may be advisable to stop rolling on the gas (but not to roll it off). The motorcycle will slow down smoothly and gradually, and the slide will be corrected.

 

2. A double-apex turn should be treated practically as two separate turns, which means slowing down smoothly, even by rolling off the gas and straightening the bike before the second entry.

 

3. In top-gear, full-throttle turns there's no way to continue rolling on the gas simply because it's already open all the way. In that case, the necessary pull through the turn should be created by coming into the turn roughly 500 rpm lower than normal, and then when the motorcycle is leaned over, the rpm will pick up and the engine will pul the motorcycle through the turn.

 

4. In the crested turns, getting on the gas should be delayed until after the the bike "lands" after the crest, because it's already too high on the suspension, and getting on the gas too early may lift t even higher, which may result in the front wheel pop-up. It may even be necessary to roll off the gas slightly and smoothly, if the crest is really steep (in that case the motorcycle may still be accelerating even as the throttle is being rolled off).

 

5. If a motorcycle is leaned over to the extreme, the rider has to wait until the beginning of the Pick-Up to start rolling on the gas (this is not so much an exception, but rather a modification of the Golden Rule).

 

6. If there are bumps in the middle of the turn, the throttle roll-on may be slowed down or stopped temporarily till the end of the bumps. (No roll-off, though.)

 

7. A long downhill turn may require a brief delay in rolling on the throttle.

 

8. Changes in camber in the middle of the turn, or off-camber turn, may require a brief delay in rolling on the throttle.

 

9. A decreasing-radius turn may need a brief delay in the roll-on.

 

10. Any combination of all of the above may also require slowing down or temporarily stopping the roll-on.

 

 

That seems to be it, even though I should confess that most of what I just wrote is pure theory to me, because I simply don't have enough track experience to encounter all of the described circumstances. I may have gotten some of it wrong, and I may have missed something. As always, an input from a more experienced and skillful rider would be much appreciated. Mugget, I hope you kept your text after you snipped it out, I would very much like to read it.

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More.

 

XXXI. One of the turns per track may be your "fall asleep" turn

 

That's where you lose time. And by "you" I mean "me". The "take a vacation" turn, quite logically, tends to be the next turn after the fastest turn, or the one perceived as the fastest. In my case, most recently, it was turn 2 at Thunderbolt, where I simply did nothing, over and over again. Then as I was getting tired, I started unconsciously to use that turn to take some serious rest, and got on the brake more and more – until I nearly "collected" my coach who was riding behind me, studying my peculiar behavior, and another coach who was riding behind him (probably studying his peculiar behavior). Once my coach scolded me for wasting time, I estimate I shed about 7 seconds by simply staying awake during turn 2.

 

XXXII. Commentary riding helps

 

At least, I find it helpful at my current riding level. (By "commentary riding" I don't mean the phenomenon you may have observed while being a passenger in a car with a choleric motorist: "What the... ? What does that jerk think he's doing! Idiot drivers like that shouldn't be allowed to breed! And look at that other guy. Unbelievable!")

 

No, commentary riding, if done properly, may help to focus rider's attention where it belongs: "Off the brake. Rubber trace on the left, got the entry, look at the apex, lean, relax, blades of grass sticking out higher, got the apex, that lighter spot over there, look at the exit, roll on the gas, smooth and steady, rolling, pick up the bike. Harder on the gas" – and so on.

 

I sometimes catch myself just saying these things out loud as I ride. I guess it depends on a personality type of a rider to a large degree, and on the skill level. I find it helpful. You may find that it actually distracts you and slows you down. Obviously, too much of the commentary can be attention-gobbler. Also, I suspect, more experienced riders sort of "de-verbalize" these things: they think in images and sensations rather than words. So the commentary riding may be seen as temporary "crutches" for beginners like myself.

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Does the throttle rule no.1 have any exceptions?

 

 

A very profound question, Rain. Let's see now.

 

 

1. In a rear-end slide, it may be advisable to stop rolling on the gas (but not to roll it off). The motorcycle will slow down smoothly and gradually, and the slide will be corrected.

 

2. A double-apex turn should be treated practically as two separate turns, which means slowing down smoothly, even by rolling off the gas and straightening the bike before the second entry.

 

3. In top-gear, full-throttle turns there's no way to continue rolling on the gas simply because it's already open all the way. In that case, the necessary pull through the turn should be created by coming into the turn roughly 500 rpm lower than normal, and then when the motorcycle is leaned over, the rpm will pick up and the engine will pul the motorcycle through the turn.

 

4. In the crested turns, getting on the gas should be delayed until after the the bike "lands" after the crest, because it's already too high on the suspension, and getting on the gas too early may lift t even higher, which may result in the front wheel pop-up. It may even be necessary to roll off the gas slightly and smoothly, if the crest is really steep (in that case the motorcycle may still be accelerating even as the throttle is being rolled off).

 

5. If a motorcycle is leaned over to the extreme, the rider has to wait until the beginning of the Pick-Up to start rolling on the gas (this is not so much an exception, but rather a modification of the Golden Rule).

 

6. If there are bumps in the middle of the turn, the throttle roll-on may be slowed down or stopped temporarily till the end of the bumps. (No roll-off, though.)

 

7. A long downhill turn may require a brief delay in rolling on the throttle.

 

8. Changes in camber in the middle of the turn, or off-camber turn, may require a brief delay in rolling on the throttle.

 

9. A decreasing-radius turn may need a brief delay in the roll-on.

 

10. Any combination of all of the above may also require slowing down or temporarily stopping the roll-on.

 

 

That seems to be it, even though I should confess that most of what I just wrote is pure theory to me, because I simply don't have enough track experience to encounter all of the described circumstances. I may have gotten some of it wrong, and I may have missed something. As always, an input from a more experienced and skillful rider would be much appreciated. Mugget, I hope you kept your text after you snipped it out, I would very much like to read it.

 

If you have a copy of Twist II, you might want to go back and review the benefits of good throttle control, and see if you still think all these exceptions apply. Make sure you are not confusing a stabilizing roll-on with an exit drive.

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Make sure you are not confusing a stabilizing roll-on with an exit drive.

 

Could you please expand on this, Hotfoot?

 

 

(Yes, I agree with you about re-reading Twist II, I think it's essential that I stay current with that book.)

 

 

 

Rainman, I would very much value your input, too. Could you comment on my reply?

 

 

 

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Rainman, I would very much value your input, too. Could you comment on my reply?

Vorontzov;

You found the details in Twist II I was alluding to...but do you understand the distinction that Hottie is asking you about?

Rain

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Make sure you are not confusing a stabilizing roll-on with an exit drive.

 

Could you please expand on this, Hotfoot?

 

 

(Yes, I agree with you about re-reading Twist II, I think it's essential that I stay current with that book.)

 

 

 

Sure. You made the comment in your earlier post that you might want to delay your roll-on until you start your Pick-up, or slow or stop your roll-on in a turn with bumps. While I agree that you might want to delay your hard-throttle EXIT DRIVE in those situations, would you really want to delay your initial roll-on? Would delaying or halting your stabilizing roll-on help the bike's handling over the bumps?

 

What does good throttle control do to the weight load on the front and rear tires, do you recall the weight distribution we are looking for? What does good throttle control do to the suspension?

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You found the details in Twist II I was alluding to...but do you understand the distinction that Hottie is asking you about?

 

 

 

Working on that right now, Rain. :-)

 

 

Sure. You made the comment in your earlier post that you might want to delay your roll-on until you start your Pick-up, or slow or stop your roll-on in a turn with bumps. While I agree that you might want to delay your hard-throttle EXIT DRIVE in those situations, would you really want to delay your initial roll-on? Would delaying or halting your stabilizing roll-on help the bike's handling over the bumps?

 

What does good throttle control do to the weight load on the front and rear tires, do you recall the weight distribution we are looking for? What does good throttle control do to the suspension?

Oh, okay. Let's see if I get this right.

So, I'm approaching a turn. I slow down to the entry speed, I put my tires over the corner entry, I give the bike a proper lean angle, and then, once I settle in the lean angle, I begin a smooth, steady, continuous roll-on, which is relatively moderate in throttle application. That roll-on should immediately follow the lean angle, and it shouldn't be delayed / slowed down, etc. The roll on transfers the weight to the rear, to achieve the proper 40/60 (30/70 for advanced bikes) weight distribution, and gets the bike right about in the middle of suspension, where it's the most effective.

Then I do the pick up and simultaneously get on the throttle more, to achieve a good drive out of the turn. It is here where I may have to wait a little, depending on the turn configuration.

Am I getting closer to understanding it correctly?

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The "when" of the roll on is covered in Twist 2, anyone know the exact section?

 

You mention a delay, specifically, "It is here where I may have to wait a little.." Why the delay?

 

CF

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Cheers for the clutchless downshifting info. I did a search and found that previous thread (for anyone interested that thread is right here) and here's the video of Will with some super-smooth clutchless downshifts!

 

 

I did keep my snippet for Throttle Rule exceptions, here it is: for example... wide open, fast corners. If you're already on the throttle and entering the corner in top gear, you can't open it any more. Or double-apex, decreasing radius, off-camber, downhill, bumpy corners could all require Rule #1 to be bent (hopefully we just don't find all those characteristics in the one corner!) Even then it would usually be ideal to stop rolling on the throttle momentarily rather than closing it altogether. (That was all from TOTW II Chap. 4, so I cheated, or researched depending on your point of view. tongue.gif )

 

Not as large as your list there Vorontzov! But there really aren't many places where the rule won't apply. And I think one important thing to note is that those circumstances would usually require the rule to be bent (stop rolling on throttle) rather than being outright exceptions (closing the throttle).

 

 

The question of "when" to roll on the throttle I believe is covered in Chapter 5, Get It On...

 

Back to the question of crested turns, the example #4 caught my attention in particular. I struggled with that on my Level 1 day. But the solution was so simple, just not something that I had considered. Chapter 5 gives a really great guideline that I will keep in mind for all corners that I'm unsure of:

 

If you don't lose traction going in, getting to 40/60 won't make it crash, it will make it handle.

 

So, are crested turns really somewhere that Throttle Control Rule #1 should be bent? How would riding by the above guideline affect how you ride a crested turn?

(Just a couple more questions for good measure in addition to "when" to roll on the throttle!)

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On the topic of clutchless downshifts: It is my preferred method on my Ducati 848 but i would def do this all the time if your bike has a slipper clutch because it will automatically smooth out your shift.

 

I have experienced one instance where it can have a negative effect on the trans; occasionally when i hurry my clutchless downshifts i dont push down hard enough/completely on the shift lever. This causes the transmission to exit the the higher gear but not engage the lower gear (a false neutral). That in itself doesn't harm anything but when putting the bike back into gear (always upshift in this situation if it ever happens to you!!) the engagement is VERY abrupt. Abrupt in that the actual gear engagement is alot more harsh than normal. Similar to when initially shifting into 1st after starting up a bike. I'm not sure if this is doing much harm and i haven't experienced any ill effects yet but it seems like it could harm the gear you're upshifting into by chipping off at the gear teeth. I've checked and the oil level is good and all i've noticed for the cause is that i don't give it a solid enough push on the lever.

 

Has anyone else had a situation similar to this?

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Surtees --vincent thruxton manx mv agusta lola ferrari cooper maserati obe.

 

 

 

 

Isn't this sort of a random place to put this? And... what is it, hero worship, in Code? :)

Or are you just trying to say "think it through"?

 

And... is Ago your signature, or part of your list of giants?

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Surtees --vincent thruxton manx mv agusta lola ferrari cooper maserati obe.

 

Thank you, Justin. Your insightful comment has elevated this discussion to the whole new level.

 

 

Stewal, I liked your observation about getting into "false neutral" during the downshift. I think that situation may indeed cause damage to a motorcycle, especially if it's repeated. I'm wondering though, would that be specific only for clutch-less downshifts.

 

Mugget, I think I actually found at least one more situation when an exception to the Number One Rule may be required: a rider enters a blind corner and discovers a crowd of other riders there, going slower than he was planning to go through the turn. if there's no place to pass, the faster rider would have to wait.

 

I may be wrong though. Never happened to me. I kinda visualized it.

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