03tlrmo Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I had recently asked for help on corner entry and found the advice helpful. My new question is that now that I am turning at a nice easy pace once I get used to the feeling how do I get that quick flip that I hear about. I know that theres got to be something because there is nothing quick about the flips I've been doing. But the least to say they are improving. I have a new tire so I can see exactly how much tire I'm using I have about 1/2" on each side left that has no wear. If this is a way you can tell how your leaning. If it is does that mean if I want to obtain that last part of the tire do I need to be on a track at full lean. If so that 1/2" is gonna have to wait until next year in Keith's class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeF4y Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 The class will help you out greatly. While tire wear is an indication of how far you've leaned the bike over, it's not an indication of how quickly you got there, or whether you used the correct amount of lean angle. The goal is to get the bike leaned to the necessary angle as quickly as possible. The goal (well, ultimate goal) is to use the least amount of lean angle necessary for a given turn. So... How do you do it? Turn quicker. Really, you should go through the school or at least read TOTW-II to get a better understanding as I don't have time to type what I know, and certainly don't want to do any unjustice to Keith on this (which would likewise be a disservice to you). Here is a corner by me... I stopped and pondered everything I do while coming into say, a turn 1 situation after a long straight. Some of this won't be entirely applicable to the street, but all of it can be applied with reasonable results. Now mind you, this is done in about 2 seconds..... Some of it are my own little mental reminders, but anyhow... See the turn Stay tucked and on the gas Wait for your braking point You have more than enough time Slide into position Pop up as little as possible Hold the bike with your knees Squeeze the brakes. 2 fingers Drop down through the gears quickly Stay at the edge of the track Move your upper body out Drop your chest to the tank Find the apex leading with your chin Remain at the edge of the track Do not drift in Wait for your reference point to turn in Do not turn in early Release the brakes Push the bar with one quick, concise movement Fall over with the bike, as one happy little mushroom Roll back on the gas Focus your vision down the track Hard on the gas at the apex Pick up the bike while remaining off the side Wide open throttle Slide back onto the seat in a full tuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03tlrmo Posted April 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Thanks alot, your advice has been really helpful I did the best I have ever done in a canyon. I often found myself using the parking pullouts to let traffic get a head start before i started carving again. Still there is alot to be learned I will be going to school next year trying for two classes by the end of that year. I will be getting that book but this will do for now. Once again thanks my sunday ride was the best yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeF4y Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I'm glad that my comments are helpful. Ponder this... My comments are based on the following: Riding for +25 years in one fashion or another Reading TOTW-II probably 50 or more times Racing for the last 5 years Attending Level 1 & 2 in a 2-day camp last year The comments I make here are most strongly influenced by what I learned from the book and the school, and my application of them. I know that some people don't like the book and some people probably don't get what I did out of the schools, but I can't speak highly enough of it. If I can make constructive comments after reading a book and going through 2 days of school, imagine what the person who WRITES those books and the people who instruct those classes can teach you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doog Posted April 27, 2005 Report Share Posted April 27, 2005 I am experiencing a similar problem, I have just done level one in the UK. All good stuff and I think will help me a lot. However the quick sterring drill just didnt sit right with me, the brain said push on the bar but the hands said not ruddy likley. Think its due to the fact im trying to overrule a natral instinct learnt over the last 16 odd years. Im guessing it will need the drill practicing till it sits right. www.bike-racer.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 doog Your problems with steering may well be related to your 2-step - without a definate place to go to you will struggle to turn the bike really quickly. You can certainly turn it quicker than before after understanding the classroom tech, but to have 1 turning input, and for that input to put you exactly on the line you want, at full lean, at full speed, you really have to know where you are going next before you commit to turning. Johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfreddie Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 two things to consider when you make a quicker turn based on your previous turn points... either you will need to move your turn point farther down the track or you will need to increase your entry speed. without doing either, you're gonna end up inside the apex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 How about just turning less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfreddie Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 wouldn't that send the bike wide on exit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 wouldn't that send the bike wide on exit? Johnny is referring to the amount of lean that you dial in after having first decided where the bike is going to go i.e. 2-stepping to the apex. Therefore, if you choose to use the same speed and same turnpoint but with a quicker turn you would require less lean angle! In other words, using the same amount of lean angle would take you to the infield :-( or you could go faster :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfreddie Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 In other words, using the same amount of lean angle would take you to the infield :-( or you could go faster :-) i was going on the assumption that the same lean angle would be used. you validated most of my point. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeF4y Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 when I first started racing, I would early apex every corner. It was horrible. It takes a bit of understanding and practice to learn how to turn quickly and correctly, but once you do, you'll be surprised how far into a corner you can go before turning. The other beauty to it is that it's self-serving. If you go DEEP into a corner, you *HAVE* to turn quick, or you'll completely blow the turn. I wouldn't recommend shooting in deep to perfect your quick turns though or you may find yourself on your head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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