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bloodrun

Brake Marker Help!

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Hi all,

 

Just to check with you guys, we always hear professionals as well as school coaches refer to brake markers. On the track, i did identify my brake marker for all the corners. But during my course of practice, i would tend to always feel that i could drop my braking marker closer to the turn point. But everything i do that, i don't seems to feel comfortable with the high entry speed. Even if trail braking was involve, it does not feel comfortable going in at fast.

 

Is this normal?

 

Or could any one advice, how should i practice to feel comfortable with moving my brake marker later to carry a little more entry speed into the turn?

 

Look forward to hear from the net,

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Hi all,

i would tend to always feel that i could drop my braking marker closer to the turn point. But everything i do that, i don't seems to feel comfortable with the high entry speed.

Bloodrun;

this is the riddle IMHO. You say you can...and then when you do you are uncomfortable leading to the question - why did you think you could move them up in the first place? Gauging your entry speed is a key part of cornering and it sounds to me like that might be a better place to start. Others far more knowledgeable than me may see this differently.

 

Rain

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I recently raised most of my corner entry speeds by a good margin on my normal track, but I did it by braking less and turning in later (and faster), not by moving my braking markers. Braking later is a more difficult way to find time and corner speed IMHO. Why not try braking at the same point but not braking as hard at the end of the braking zone, and being well set up (body position-wise) to flick it in really hard and with more speed?

 

Not an expert...but it worked for me!

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I recently raised most of my corner entry speeds by a good margin on my normal track, but I did it by braking less and turning in later (and faster), not by moving my braking markers. Braking later is a more difficult way to find time and corner speed IMHO. Why not try braking at the same point but not braking as hard at the end of the braking zone, and being well set up (body position-wise) to flick it in really hard and with more speed?

+1 on braking less. Still working on this, and probably always will have to work in this one :D

 

What I have found is that instead of using a start-of-braking marker, I used an end-of-braking marker. As your speed (before braking) increases, you need to move your start-of-braking point earlier on the track, in order to compensate for the higher speed/longer braking distance.

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What problem are you trying to solve - do you want to get more comfortable with the higher entry speed, or more accurate with your braking?

 

If you make an increase in entry speed, you can certainly trigger SRs! What exactly is your attention on, are you concerned about:

Running wide?

Running out of room getting the bike slowed before your turn point?

Not being able to get the bike turned?

Front wheel traction?

Something else?

 

Does it "feel too fast" when you enter the turn, but later in the turn feel like everything is fine and you could have gone faster, or does it feel ok on entry but fall part later in the turn?

 

Answering some of these questions might help us sort out what is going on and how to handle it.

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Hot foot,

 

Would say that, If feels fast when entering the turn, but later in the turn everything is fine and felt that could have gone faster. i"ve manage in getting on the gas fast in mid apex till driving all the way out till the exit. But it always felt that could brake later or by decreasing the brake marker closer to the turn point.

 

is it me or is there a way to overcome this?

 

i've heard of top racers not even looking at their speedo meter, hence i 've tried to rely on the rpm meter to gauge the entry using rpm.

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Think back to one of the turns where you felt fast going in - at the moment that it felt fast, where were you looking, or what were you looking at?

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The thing about changing is that change is involved. When I first started using brake markers I slowed a lot and wasn't as comfortable going into corners as I was before. It took a while, but I noticed that I'd changed my visual habits for some reason (as Hotfoot is guiding you towards) instead of just incorporating brake markers. I had to work on getting my head back down the track. It got easier, but what I figured was to pay less attention to my brake markers going into a corner, unless that's what I'm working on for that session. Then it's more than just a point I pass where I get on the brakes. You'll have SR's to re-sort either way, though.

 

I'm very much for brake markers. If you don't have them, then it's not a marker, but a feeling of fear that's telling you when to brake. If you pay attention to where you brake and make that your marker on one corner (I'd say on a straight going to a slower to mid-speed corner because that's where you'll be able to appreciate the difference on a more grand scale) you'll be able to improve it and see how much sooner you started braking than you needed to. It was fear that was dictating your brake point, and when fear is riding the bike, all the SR's are a potential to happen. Don't give up on brake markers.

 

I'd wager on vision, but remember that you're tense and uncomfortable. Even if you HAD a good steering speed, tensing up on the bars could very possibly nullify that particular skill. It could be a multitude of things causing your problem. Sorry I'm so long winded.

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First you see God, then you brake :D

 

I think Jason has a good point in monitoring your anxiety/tension. That's what I work at these days, not pushing harder than that I can sense how I sit on the bike. Every time I let my focus wander, I tense up and the bike handles less well. And I feel less well. But it's hard work since I've been clinging to my 'bars for over 30 years as if my life depended on it :unsure:

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i've heard of top racers not even looking at their speedo meter, hence i 've tried to rely on the rpm meter to gauge the entry using rpm.

 

Use your senses to monitor the speed, not your gauges. You are not looking where you need to look if you can see your rpm or speedo. Raise your vision and focus on the apex and use your peripheral vision to spot your turn in marker. Listen to your engine and feel the vibrations of your bike to create a memory of what your senses register. Gradually increase the speed you can enter the corner until you reach a limit such as traction or lean anle. Then wait for that "memory" to match your feel for the speed you have while easing up on the brakes.

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i've heard of top racers not even looking at their speedo meter, hence i 've tried to rely on the rpm meter to gauge the entry using rpm.

 

Use your senses to monitor the speed, not your gauges. You are not looking where you need to look if you can see your rpm or speedo. Raise your vision and focus on the apex and use your peripheral vision to spot your turn in marker. Listen to your engine and feel the vibrations of your bike to create a memory of what your senses register. Gradually increase the speed you can enter the corner until you reach a limit such as traction or lean anle. Then wait for that "memory" to match your feel for the speed you have while easing up on the brakes.

 

I agree with this....but I want to add one thing (based on recent experience!).

 

If you ever decide to try entering a corner one gear higher than what you have been doing, don't forget that the rpms are going to be very different, which can throw you off if you are very attuned to engine speed and not using your head otherwise. I had a bit of a moment once when I decided to try third instead of second into a corner, and got off the brakes WAY too early based on the engine note. Yikes. I realized my error at the last minute as my entry point was coming up scary fast, and was able to grab some more brake before tipping in hard....but it was kind of a close one...

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Hi all,

 

Just to check with you guys, we always hear professionals as well as school coaches refer to brake markers. On the track, i did identify my brake marker for all the corners. But during my course of practice, i would tend to always feel that i could drop my braking marker closer to the turn point. But everything i do that, i don't seems to feel comfortable with the high entry speed. Even if trail braking was involve, it does not feel comfortable going in at fast.

 

Is this normal?

 

Or could any one advice, how should i practice to feel comfortable with moving my brake marker later to carry a little more entry speed into the turn?

 

Look forward to hear from the net,

 

Hi bloodrun,

 

Good questions!

 

As far as whether or not this is normal... I think it's important to recognise the fact that just about every single experience felt on a motorcycle is not normal. At least, it's not normal in the sense that in nature, you can't experience anything like the sensations that a modern motorcycle can provide. I guess there can be many different reasons limiting different people, but for me a big step was recognising those reasons why such high speed and lean angles didn't feel natural to me (it's simply because they aren't natural).

 

On the question of how to practice so you can feel comfortable... again there's many different points that go into this to achieve that one goal. I will just say that for me, increasing my corner entry speed has been one of the biggest things I had to make a conscious effort to work on. It just took a lot of time and effort to keep slowly working and improving the entry speed. So don't feel bad if you're not making fast progress in that area. I spent a lot of time working on that by myself on track days, and when I attended CSS I had a big improvement to my corner entry speed... so I definitely recommend taking the School! But failing that, there's helpful information here and at other places on the forum. And I'm sure that Hotfoot can assist when you're able to respond to that question also.

 

All the best!

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Hi All,

 

Thank you so much for your sharing and advice, guess to sum up;

 

Work on my vision is the one i should be working on now.

 

Thank you onces again.

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