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Here are some cool pics of the Attack Performance MotoGP bike. It starts to give you an idea of how serious these guys are about getting data on what is happening on with the bike.

 

attack_crt1.jpg shows the main connection point of all the wiring harnesses from various sensors coming into the back of the display. There are a few of them. Haha.

 

attack_crt2.jpg shows the front of the swingarm where they have mounted 3 infrared temperature sensors which they use to measure tire temperature. They can measure the temperature of the tire in the middle, as well as either side.

 

attack_crt3.jpg shows the steering damper they are using. On top of the steering damper they have mounted a potentiometer which measures the distance/location of the steering damper. They use this to roughly measure the steering angle.

 

Anyway...just thought this was cool stuff and figured I would post it up. I'll post up any other pictures I find related to this stuff.

 

If any of you guys find pics showing this stuff, post them up! I'd love to see them.

 

Enjoy!

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I really like data acquisition and do a bit as I can learn quite a bit from it. I also overlay it onto any video session I do. I have my ecu tapped to get wheel speed, brake pressure, rpms, throttle position and also have external sensors for turn rate and front tire temp (sidewall). Obviously no where near as much as the telemetry of the motogp but enough for me. The ones that help me most are the throttle position (because I'm a wuss on the throttle), brake pressure (and location of where I'm braking). The rest is just cool stuff to have.

 

I've mentioned and I really think CSS should do some data acquisition/telemetry on their camera bike. I don't think there is enough time to do a full data acquisition analysis, but some basic things like brake pressure, throttle position, turn rate, overlaid onto the video would be a great thing for students. You wouldn't spend any more time and they would definitely want to do it and keep it. Not to mention, I think a few other advanced riding schools are starting to do it - hint hint :)

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Love the pix Timmer. That first one looks more like something you'd find in a raised floor room than on a track. I'm fascinated by the details that are attended to in the highest levels of racing.

 

There are some tools out there for track day riders, I'm thinking of some smart phone apps I've seen but I think there are others available. What are you guys using to capture quantitative data on your track day riding?

 

Anthem - how are you gathering and analyzing the data you are collecting?

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Good point anthem. It think it would be cool to have a little bit of data acq stuff on the camera bike, although we can already pick up a lot of things from just the picture and sound of the video. Keith has expressed some interest in it, but most of the systems out there are complicated and expensive.

 

Thanks warregl. I'm fascinated by that stuff too. Good question on what data acq systems guys are using. I'm interested as well...let's keep that discussion going! :)

 

What data acq systems have you guys heard of?

What data acq systems are you using?

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I only heard that the S1000RR HP4 usues a centralized CAN BUS system for all the sensors and controls ; powercommanders/ bazzaz stuff apparently tap into this system too

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

 

I personally diverge more into how the TC and ESP systems are implemented in different brands; seems that the Europe approach(BMW /APRILIA) and Japanese(KAWASAKI/YAMAHA) approach are pretty different

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A bunch of links that are a good read on how the TC and ESP systems read and react :

 

 

 

How TC works:

http://www.motorcycl...ined-91272.html

 

 

 

Advance TC:

http://www.sportride...ol/viewall.html

 

 

Racing TC/ESP systems reviews:

http://www.motorcycl...action_control/

http://www.trackdaym...on-control.html

 

 

 

2012 Litrebike TC/Electronic systems comparisons:

http://www.motorcycl...Comparison.aspx

http://www.cycleworl...i-zx-10r-video/

 

personal rant:

 

We live in exciting times, Being able to see and use years and even decades old BANNED F1 technology finally trickling down to consumer vehicles .

 

you can see whats banned here: http://www.f1fanatic...ures/banned/ ( theres a page 2! )

 

Fortunately for me as a teenager (what? 15 years ago?) , I was able to get a glimpse of it thru the imagination of a future where all the real world banned stuff isnt banned (eg parallel fictional world )

by a company called sunrise and its re-imagination (with some trinklets thrown in for good entertainment measure) of the future thru an anime called Future GPX Cyber Formula .

In that fictional future time line (and this video

) you can actually see (in a fictional way) the combination of said currently F1 BANNED technologies such as

 

Ground effect

Active suspension (S1000RR HP4 YAY!)

Traction control

X-wings

Turbos

Four wheel steering

Slicks

Gas turbine engines

Six-wheelers

Rocket fuel

Flexi-wings (458 Italia)

Brabham-Alfa Romeo BT46B ‘Fan Car’

 

I sure hope to live in such a future given all the technology is already available a few years or even decades ago... And IMHO thats why I dont watch F1 anymore; its boring and nerfed to me

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I use the Aim EVO4. What Aim has done right is that they've built ECU bridges for most major manufacturers bikes. If you tap the Can H/L line, then you can get all the bikes sensors without trying to use an RPM K-line, and putting your own sensors in that are already there. . . AIM has ECU plugs/bridges/instructions for most of those bikes so once you locate the EVo4 logger, you just tap in and you are already on your way with a number of sensors that the bike has (temps, rpm, speed, throttle position, etc). If you want to replace the dash - you can also use the AIM MXL dash units which put the data logger into the dash (or just add a dash lap timer), but I prefer the small EVO4 unit in the tail of my bike. I have a few extra sensors into it, but its not overboard. I can take that data and overlay it onto video as well.

 

To give you an idea of the Evo4 data feeding the smartycam which I think would be cool for the school to do.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLmzIRQFe1w&list=PLQRA6OR-5SCXigl060CU-Qb-KHG-dEcR1&index=5

 

 

And yes, I agree that you can detect a lot of this from sound (rpm), but its a lot easier with actual data being shown (speed, rpm, brake pressure, throttle position, etc). And it puts the school into another "cool" category which most people don't have access to. But then again, it might encourage people to do the camera bike more which I'm, not sure would be the CSS goal ????

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I use the Aim EVO4. What Aim has done right is that they've built ECU bridges for most major manufacturers bikes. If you tap the Can H/L line, then you can get all the bikes sensors without trying to use an RPM K-line, and putting your own sensors in that are already there. . . AIM has ECU plugs/bridges/instructions for most of those bikes so once you locate the EVo4 logger, you just tap in and you are already on your way with a number of sensors that the bike has (temps, rpm, speed, throttle position, etc). If you want to replace the dash - you can also use the AIM MXL dash units which put the data logger into the dash (or just add a dash lap timer), but I prefer the small EVO4 unit in the tail of my bike. I have a few extra sensors into it, but its not overboard. I can take that data and overlay it onto video as well.

 

To give you an idea of the Evo4 data feeding the smartycam which I think would be cool for the school to do.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLmzIRQFe1w&list=PLQRA6OR-5SCXigl060CU-Qb-KHG-dEcR1&index=5

 

 

And yes, I agree that you can detect a lot of this from sound (rpm), but its a lot easier with actual data being shown (speed, rpm, brake pressure, throttle position, etc). And it puts the school into another "cool" category which most people don't have access to. But then again, it might encourage people to do the camera bike more which I'm, not sure would be the CSS goal ????

 

 

Im thinking that such a setup is useful only at level 4 as the level of customization tailored to each individual will show using both the camera and onboard data logging before and after improvements/coaching ....

 

And imho its quite costy now, the financial barrier is no joke now.... maybe when such systems start to become abundant and cheaper?

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I was looking at the "Trackaddict" iphone app, it will overlay all the information on video(either gopro or iophone camera) and can connect to the can/bus either via plug/play or bluetooth.

 

wouldn't show braking, but it would show slowing at least.

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problem with the iphone and most of the non-pro stuff is that its 5mhz gps. The dedicated data acquisition stuff is 10mhz (10 updates per second) and some of the really pro stuff is 20mhz. At 100mph, 5 updates per second is 30ft. at 10mhz, that drops to about 15ft - which is generally enough to work with. Thats a huge difference.

 

Granted - its good to get started at that level. But once you enter in with the better stuff its night and day.

 

In terms of cost - yes, about $1200 to start with the Aim stuff - which you get quite a bit. Video data over lay requires use of their camera's which is 1k. Or you can get the camera's and tie into the ecu for around $1200. You get whatever you want to overlay, but no logging of data.

 

But one of the reasons that I say the school should do it is because its out of reach for most people (or out of what they want to spend). That way it has more value. If the school could give you a video (forget the actual data analysis, just video with data overlay) - you can study your own braking zones, braking pressure, your throttle positions, your gyro/lean angles, etc - would you be more inclined to not miss that camera session on bike ?

 

Because I would say half of the Level IV's just skip the camera bike right now.

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Awesome info guys!

 

ktk_ace - Awesome info on traction control! Those are great articles. Since traction control is slightly different than data acquisition(and more complex), I'm thinking maybe we should start a separate post for it? :)

 

anthem - Love the videos! That's really neat stuff. I think it could be very useful on the camera bike for any student Level. We like to get students on the camera bike because we can show them EXACTLY what they're doing. Having that data on the screen would give even more info about what is going on.

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problem with the iphone and most of the non-pro stuff is that its 5mhz gps. The dedicated data acquisition stuff is 10mhz (10 updates per second) and some of the really pro stuff is 20mhz. At 100mph, 5 updates per second is 30ft. at 10mhz, that drops to about 15ft - which is generally enough to work with. Thats a huge difference.

 

Granted - its good to get started at that level. But once you enter in with the better stuff its night and day.

 

In terms of cost - yes, about $1200 to start with the Aim stuff - which you get quite a bit. Video data over lay requires use of their camera's which is 1k. Or you can get the camera's and tie into the ecu for around $1200. You get whatever you want to overlay, but no logging of data.

 

But one of the reasons that I say the school should do it is because its out of reach for most people (or out of what they want to spend). That way it has more value. If the school could give you a video (forget the actual data analysis, just video with data overlay) - you can study your own braking zones, braking pressure, your throttle positions, your gyro/lean angles, etc - would you be more inclined to not miss that camera session on bike ?

 

Because I would say half of the Level IV's just skip the camera bike right now.

 

Good points anthem for sure. I'll ask Keith, Dylan, and Cobie what they think about it.

 

Once you get everything set up on the bike, is it pretty quick/easy to do videos? The reason I ask is that we already have to hustle a bit to get the videos done for ALL the students that ride it. It would make it tougher if we had to add more time to that whole process during a school day....

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Good points anthem for sure. I'll ask Keith, Dylan, and Cobie what they think about it.

 

Once you get everything set up on the bike, is it pretty quick/easy to do videos? The reason I ask is that we already have to hustle a bit to get the videos done for ALL the students that ride it. It would make it tougher if we had to add more time to that whole process during a school day....

 

Look into the AIm smartycam with ECU bridge (BMW S1000r) is already there. The ECU tap is in the front of the bike by the left side fairing I believe (Will knows where it is). You don't need data logging, all you want is data to be available for the camera system and to be utilize that data to be overlaid onto the video. The advantage with data overlay is that its done live and recorded that way. Its one of the unique abilities of that particular system/setup. All the other solutions of merging data after the fact won't work for the school (who's going to spend time merging recorded data with video at the school ? nobody). So you need to have it overlaid and recorded that way. Then you pop the card out, its in MOV or AVI format and you can play it with any media player. The cards are micro-SD though which means they are small (and not the CF flash cards that you use with your race data systems). So carrying them in gloves might be a challenge :-).

 

I will probably be bringing my bike at the next VIR sessions if I can get it ready in time (just switched bikes). If I get it up and running in time I can show Dylan/Cobie/Will/et al.

 

But we are diverging from data acquisition to video overlay with data.

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I also have the AIM EVO 4 and an HD camera on my S1000RR and it works very good! I also have AIM LCU One for AFR info.S1000RR has many many sensors recognized by the AIM software.It really helps you to improve the technics that can be used in many situations.

Here is a video that I made

 

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Yeah, the GPS refresh rate isn't great. But for my novice rear end it does the job. Also the fact that I'm on a Buell 1125, GPS is about the only thing I can use. Most items don't interface well with our ECM, and since we are no longer in production most items don't support us. Track addicts aleast does the overlay on the gopro footage so makes a decent video.

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problem with the iphone and most of the non-pro stuff is that its 5mhz gps. The dedicated data acquisition stuff is 10mhz (10 updates per second) and some of the really pro stuff is 20mhz. At 100mph, 5 updates per second is 30ft. at 10mhz, that drops to about 15ft - which is generally enough to work with. Thats a huge difference.

 

Think that should read 5 Hz not 5 mHz, at 5 mHz the recording event would occur once every 200 seconds and at 5 MHz it would be 5 million times per second

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Think that should read 5 Hz not 5 mHz, at 5 mHz the recording event would occur once every 200 seconds and at 5 MHz it would be 5 million times per second

 

I meant Hz as you are correct (as we usually deal in mhz, so just slipped my mind).

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Awesome info guys!

 

ktk_ace - Awesome info on traction control! Those are great articles. Since traction control is slightly different than data acquisition(and more complex), I'm thinking maybe we should start a separate post for it? :)

 

anthem - Love the videos! That's really neat stuff. I think it could be very useful on the camera bike for any student Level. We like to get students on the camera bike because we can show them EXACTLY what they're doing. Having that data on the screen would give even more info about what is going on.

 

I have stated that it has simlarities as it taps into the can system ; A dedicated section will be nice thou imho :)

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