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Hey Steve - Tell Me About The New Q3 :)


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I am a HUGE fan of the Dunlop Q2. Every time I think about stepping up to the 211 GPA, Will & Cobie come up with pretty good reasons to stick with the Q2, mainly the performance in damp / wet conditions & they don't need as much heat to perform. Plus, I have yet to find myself limited by the Q2 (as opposed to being limited by my riding ability :).

 

Yesterday, I saw that Dunlop will be rolling out the Q3 shortly and it looks awesome. How does it compare to the Q2?

 

Thanks!

Dan

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Great question Dan. I'm in the same boat on the Q2 vs the 211 GPA so I am interested in what the Q3 will be like.

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I sell only the race product. So I cant speek directly about the Q3, since I dont sell them. I am certain it is an upgrade to the Q2. However if you are on the track, the D211GP-A is going to be the best choice. The D211GP-A is also a very good street tire if you are going to ride on the street after your track ride.

 

If you ride 100% street, then the Q3 is the best. If you are going to ride track and street or just track, the D211GP-A is the best choice.

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I hate to disagree with a Dunlop rep but.............

 

On the track.... I think this much depends on the pace one rides at, if you are 'slow" and most riders are, a Q2 or the new Q3 may be all the tire you would need on the track. Sure if you can get enough heat in the tire, the 211GPA would be a better tire but the Q2/Q3 will operate in a much wider temperature range and certainly would be better the out lap and in any cooler conditions or in the wet.

 

On the street....For sure a Q2/Q3 would be far superior to a 211GPA, unless of course you treat the road as your racetrack and ride in a manner joe public would surely see as reckless.

There simply is no way to keep a GPA in that much narrower optimal temperature zone where the tire is working at its best on the street whereas the Q2 for sure (and likely the Q3) have a much broader temperature range where they will work in the upper 90% of their traction capabilities.

 

One could get all technical and ask;

-is the GPA at 75%? of its potential better than a Q2/Q3 at 90-95%? of its potential? ( I typically see street tires run at no more 130-140* temperature and often times not even that high in the spring/fall....Seems a GPA is optimal in the 176* range)

-At what temperature point does the GPA overtake the traction capabilities of the Q2/Q3? 140*, 150*, 160*, 170*?

- How do you ride?

-What is the surface temperature of the roads you ride on?

-How abrasive are the roads?

-Do you ride the street like a race (hard braking, hard acceleration etc...)

 

I simply find it ill advised to run any tire with such a narrow temperature range of being "good" on the street when that temperature range is far above what you likely will be able to achieve......without breaking every law on the books and riding like a total tool...just my opinion

 

 

All that said, can a person successfully ride GPA's on the street.......or while they are cold....most certainly, but the tire will not be anywhere near its optimal temperature which also means it won't be near its optimal grip. So how much confidence is that going to inspire? How much of your preverbial $10 of attention are you now going to spend wondering, stressing, worrying about tire grip?

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I think your second part essentially hit the nail on the head. . . basically the d211 any any temperature will give equal traction as the q2 and the the d211 will give more traction as it heats up. . . I would imagine this to be the case essentially from any moderate temperature on up. This might not be the case in 40 degree weather and just starting out, but anything say at 60 degrees on up - the two are probably going to give essentially the same. .

 

Between the two, I think he's saying when you lose traction of one over the other is not based on temperature between the two.

 

Now whether the d211gpa really has that wide an operating temperature ? Dunno, but he should probably know more than most. I do know the pirelly SC1/2 compounds seem to exhibit fairly wide temperature ranges. Maybe not as wide down in colder temps, but anything above say 60 and the tire gets to decent operating temp and is grippy. I think they have come a long way from narrow operating band tires now with Dunlop and Pirelli.

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All that said, can a person successfully ride GPA's on the street.......or while they are cold....most certainly, but the tire will not be anywhere near its optimal temperature which also means it won't be near its optimal grip. So how much confidence is that going to inspire? How much of your preverbial $10 of attention are you now going to spend wondering, stressing, worrying about tire grip?

I disagree with much of your post. I used to ride Q2's and now ride almost exclusively GPA's. The GPA provides equal or better traction as a Q2, except in wet conditions owing to less siping on the GPA, regardless the respective operating temperature. A GPA at 130 deg is not less traction than a Q2 at 130 deg and it does not take any longer to heat up a GPA than a Q2. From what I have seen, this is mythology perpetuated by riders making other mistakes and blaming it on the tires - Steve has refuted this notion repeatedly and my experience matches his comments. None of this is a criticism of the Q2 - I rode the S1000RR on Q2's this week and they are fantastic, inspiring tires. For my money however, I get that same fantastic performance and more from the GPA's, but I also get more longevity so my overall cost per lap on GPA's is less than on Q2's. We all are captive to our experiences so if your personal experience has been different then obviously we are unlikely to agree on this subject.

 

All this said, if I were only street riding, I would chose the Q2 hands down if for no other reason than it will be better in wet conditions. GPAs in the wet are not inspiring.

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All that said, can a person successfully ride GPA's on the street.......or while they are cold....most certainly, but the tire will not be anywhere near its optimal temperature which also means it won't be near its optimal grip. So how much confidence is that going to inspire? How much of your preverbial $10 of attention are you now going to spend wondering, stressing, worrying about tire grip?

I disagree with much of your post. I used to ride Q2's and now ride almost exclusively GPA's. The GPA provides equal or better traction as a Q2, except in wet conditions owing to less siping on the GPA, regardless the respective operating temperature. A GPA at 130 deg is not less traction than a Q2 at 130 deg and it does not take any longer to heat up a GPA than a Q2. From what I have seen, this is mythology perpetuated by riders making other mistakes and blaming it on the tires - Steve has refuted this notion repeatedly and my experience matches his comments. None of this is a criticism of the Q2 - I rode the S1000RR on Q2's this week and they are fantastic, inspiring tires. For my money however, I get that same fantastic performance and more from the GPA's, but I also get more longevity so my overall cost per lap on GPA's is less than on Q2's. We all are captive to our experiences so if your personal experience has been different then obviously we are unlikely to agree on this subject.

 

All this said, if I were only street riding, I would chose the Q2 hands down if for no other reason than it will be better in wet conditions. GPAs in the wet are not inspiring.

 

Brad - I agree with you except for maybe one caveat. The Pirelly SC1/2's that I use are essentially the same or better than the SP's for just about every temperature range at the track. It exhibits wide temperature just like the d211gpa's. . The only time that I think that that might be true is when the outside weather is really cold. . . . IF its 40 outside, the road OEM SP's seem to be a bit grippier as any normal tire in cold weather. The SC's almost seem really "hard" and will wiggle on you for the first mile or so. . . so in that particular super cold case (where you should be careful regardless), I'm not sure the DOT race tires are as grippy as say OEM road going tires. But anything beyond that - I think its the same or better.

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Brad - I agree with you except for maybe one caveat. The Pirelly SC1/2's that I use are essentially the same or better than the SP's for just about every temperature range at the track. It exhibits wide temperature just like the d211gpa's. . The only time that I think that that might be true is when the outside weather is really cold. . . . IF its 40 outside, the road OEM SP's seem to be a bit grippier as any normal tire in cold weather. The SC's almost seem really "hard" and will wiggle on you for the first mile or so. . . so in that particular super cold case (where you should be careful regardless), I'm not sure the DOT race tires are as grippy as say OEM road going tires. But anything beyond that - I think its the same or better.

Anthem, that is a good, well stated point. I concede I have not rode both tires under those colder conditions (anything below 50 deg) and so my experience is of no value when it comes to assessing that aspect of the respective tire performance.

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We agree but in different ways perhaps? The Q2 is better for street riding and the D211GPA is better for serious trackdays and racers. Had I left it at that would there be any disagreement?

 

I have ridden both tires in a variety of conditions both on the track and on the street.

 

I never said the 211 would take longer to reach the same temp as a Q2, but the temperature where the GPA will shine at vs where the temperature the Q2 will shine is higher (atleast according to the local Dunlop guy and my experience) so sure it would take longer to get each tire into its optimal range, how much longer-who knows.(perhaps this is one of the reasons the GPA's run so much lower tire pressures than the Q2 and perhaps that is the equalizer in how long they take to warm to there optimal range?)

It has been my experience that on the street the Q2 is far superior to the 211. Of course perhaps road conditions, temperatures, riding styes etc... in your area or experience would prove a different outcome. Thus your difference of opinion and experience.

Here locally quite often I leave the house and it is in the 20's, 30's or 40's and except for about 3 months out of the year I rarely see high temps out of the 60's or low 70's. So by far the majority of my street riding miles has ambient temps well below 70 degrees and likely the vast majority of my miles may even be below 60 degrees, which may be about the threshold where the GPA feels about the same as the Q2.

I did wear out a brand new set of GPA's in Arkansas in 1100 miles, whereas a trip to Arkansas the year prior on Q2's netted me 1280 miles in Arkansas plus another 2500 miles on those tires locally.

 

On the track, I did wear out a set a 211GPA's in 400 miles on our little 1.2+/- mile 26 turn "track" (see attached pic) and a set of Q2's in 320 miles on the same track under similar conditions 1.0+/- mile 22 turn layout (see attached pic) running similar paces on both, not race pace but "fast" (1:19-1:20 in the long layout and 1:12-1:14 in the shorter layout, for comparison the "fast" riders/instructors/control riders/racers on the short layout rarely run sub 1:10)

My point-I can see where you say the GPA's last longer on the track compared to a Q2, but I can buy Q2's for about 1/2 the cost of 211's, for me 2 sets of Q2's will outlast one set of GPA's by a large margin ~640 miles vs 400 miles~and since I am not racing or trying to set any lap records, I find a better value in the Q2 both on the street and the track. Perhaps if I was trying to set some lap records I may change my view on the track? Perhaps if I was going to a "real" racetrack my view would be different.

I ran S20's at VIR with CSS a couple weeks ago, perhaps next visit I will run one of the Dunlops for a better review.

 

In the end I was simply giving my viewpoint. A track designed tire should be used on the track, a street designed tire should be used on the street. Advising any differently I find a bit ill advised, especially on this forum.

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post-23842-0-46197300-1369975471_thumb.jpg

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We agree but in different ways perhaps? The Q2 is better for street riding and the D211GPA is better for serious trackdays and racers.

Yes, and Agreed.

 

Good follow up post, thanks. That track map looks to me like a lot of fun.

 

Some of my comments were not necessarily specific to your previous comments. For example, others have suggested GPA's don't heat up as well or fast as Q2's and so I commented on this because my experience says this is untrue.

 

I think the main difference I've experienced is Q2's are great tires across the tire temp spectrum and in nearly all road conditions whereas GPA's are great tires as they warm and then become even better when they're hot but are not suited for wet conditions.

 

I saw it noted elsewhere, apparently an AMA pro rode Q2's to within one second of his lap times on GPA's. That's pretty amazing and a testament to the quality of the Q2.

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I hate to disagree with a Dunlop rep but.............

 

 

Brad and Anthem both make good points.

 

Pepsi puts to much emphasis on the tire temp as the biggest reason for tire grip. There are many other factors in tire grip. the construction of the D211GPA is different from the Q2. Thus the GPA has better overall grip, while the Q2 gives a different feel that makes a street rider feel more comfortable. Those different feelings may lead to some riders swearing by one or the other tire.

 

Yes, you would not get the GPA to it "Optimal" performance level and temperature on the street, but that does not mean it does not performance very well at lower temps.

 

Facts are the GPA will provide better grip than the Q2 from room temp up to full race temp. This has been proven in testing is controlled conditions. The Q2 does have a different feel because of the construction. This may lead the rider to feel is a better tire in those conditions, and it is if it gives a better feel.

 

At the end of the day, riders like what they like. They will swear by a certain setup. We can argue the finer points here, but really we are splitting hairs to try to make our points.

 

All 3 tires are great tires (Q2, Q3 and GPA).

 

Last year I rode 6000 miles on my Bandit 1200 sport touring. The first haft was on GPA, the second was on Q2. We road in all conditions, and both tires worked great. Believe me, I can get aggressive in the twisties. I could not give definitive differences in performance on either tire, they both worked very very good.

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Interesting stuff, I'm a little surprised the D211 gets better mileage at the track than the Q2, I always assumed the stickier the tire the faster it would wear

 

How would you guys say the non track day mileage of the D211 compares to the Q2, I use my Track takeoffs to commute on and the Q2's get me very impressive mileage on the freeway, how would the 211 compare in that respect

 

Tyler

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Back on the original subject, here's a review of the Q3s:

 

http://www.motorcycl...view-91635.html

 

According to this article, the Q2 will be discontinued.

 

Excellent find - thanks for posting.

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The school was running some Q3s the last two days here at Barber. A Dunlop engineer and test rider were at the school riding, and were kind enough to do a short talk and Q&A session with students and coaches.

 

From what I saw, and what the coaches that were running the Q3s said, the Q3s have more grip and stability than the Q2s (which is saying a lot, because Q2s are great) AND it looks like they will also wear better. Getting a tire to have more grip AND also last longer is quite an achievement.

 

The Q3 has carbon fiber in the sidewall, which strengthens the sidewall (for better stability) without making the tire heavier, so that is an exciting new technology. Hearing the engineer talk about how they design the tread patterns, and design for specific shape of contact patch at various lean angles, was really interesting.

 

It was incredible seeing how fast a couple of the coaches and the test rider were going on them today, and the coaches using them were clearly very impressed - they said the grip was amazing, significantly more than the Q2s and very comparable to race tires. We were told the grip in the wet is extremely impressive as well, but the weather at Barber was perfect so we didn't get to test that. :)

 

I'm looking forward to trying the Q3s myself - I love the feel of the Q2s and a little bit of extra grip ought to be enough to make it an absolutely perfect track day tire. I didn't realize, until I read it in the article linked above, that the price will be the same as the Q2! Dunlop is doing some impressive stuff!

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Wow, I just knew I should've made the trip to Barber...

 

If the Q3 will perform equally (or better), last longer, but still carry the same price as the Q2 then I'd consider the Q3 a prime choice.

 

My main concern with the Q3 will be track day durability. I really like Q2's and I would gladly run them all the time if they lasted longer. However, I am mostly track day riding these days and GPA's last much longer. I wore out Q2's in three track days; my current GPA's already have four track days and I'm doing two more track days this weekend (this probably is their last event). GPA's are a bit higher purchase cost but it's more than offset by the longer track day life.

 

One thing that concerns me about the GPA's is marginal wet weather traction (and it can get wet with little warning here at NOLA). By comparison the Q2 is great in wet weather. If the Q3 is as good or better than the Q2 in wet conditions then that's one more reason I would consider the Q3.

 

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Will was very impressed with the durability of the Q3 - and just imagine how important that is to HIM!

 

I know James was riding the heck out of a set of them for two days, on 87 degree sunny days, and at the end they looked like they only had a session or two on them. Another VERY VERY fast coach from the UK branch was also riding them - he was the Dunlop test rider's coach and they were absolutely flying around the track. It sounded like the Q3s were giving grip similar to the GPAs, along with great predictability and stability, and they really did looking they were going to last longer then Q2s. It's hard to imagine anyone flogging them any harder than those guys did yesterday, so I think they are going to be awesome. :)

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Hotfoot - that is really great to hear - thank you so much for taking the time to post that info!

 

I'm looking forward to getting a set next month at Thunderbolt :)

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Here's another recent tire review on the Q3. Sounding even more tempting at this point. They didn't comment on tire life in the body of the article but did include "No increase in wear resistance against mileage" in a sidebar, so not sure where the truth lies on if it'll be more durable (particularly at the track).

 

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/545/16290/Motorcycle-Article/Dunlop-Sportmax-Q3-Motorcycle-Tire-Review.aspx

 

One thing I still can't find... when are they going to reach the market?

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I thought I read mid-June in one of the articles / reviews...

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Here's another recent tire review on the Q3. Sounding even more tempting at this point. They didn't comment on tire life in the body of the article but did include "No increase in wear resistance against mileage" in a sidebar, so not sure where the truth lies on if it'll be more durable (particularly at the track).

 

http://www.motorcycl...ire-Review.aspx

 

One thing I still can't find... when are they going to reach the market?

 

 

 

My distributor said I'll have them in my hand on June 13th.

 

Of course they had given me a date on the Q2 that ended up being 10 days off, so. I take it with a grain of salt but I have my order in none the less and will test them rigorously on both track and street this summer.

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I sell only the race product. So I cant speek directly about the Q3, since I dont sell them. I am certain it is an upgrade to the Q2. However if you are on the track, the D211GP-A is going to be the best choice. The D211GP-A is also a very good street tire if you are going to ride on the street after your track ride.

 

If you ride 100% street, then the Q3 is the best. If you are going to ride track and street or just track, the D211GP-A is the best choice.

My CBR600 is now track-only... in that case, what is the best tire choice? The D221GP-A or the new slicks?

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