faffi Posted July 20, 2014 Report Posted July 20, 2014 It's in German, but google translate should give you the gist of it - I found this highly interesting and educating http://www.motorradonline.de/motogp/motogp-wm-2014-warum-bradl-nicht-mithalten-kann/553664 Quote
Stroker Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 SO Marquez has like 250 people behind him to help him find a few tenths? Quote
faffi Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Posted July 21, 2014 I found it more interesting that his tyres show the least wear of all, that his rear tyre could do double the race distance and be fine. Or that he makes up most of his time with the front end. I remember Roberts Sr. snuffed and Sheene because he pushed the front so hard - Roberts felt it was safer to focus on the rear. Then came Spencer and went faster by pushing the front end hard. Today, all riders have to push the front end hard to be competitive. So for someone to push a lot harder than the rest is really telling something. Quote
Stroker Posted July 22, 2014 Report Posted July 22, 2014 That Marquez has enough tire left to do twice race distance is twaddle.I make it a point to closely observe the bikes when they come into park ferme.Pedrosa has some tire left.Lorenzo, Rossi, Dovi etc may have some tire left. Marquez [ who usually runs the harder option ] does have more tire wear than Pedrosa if both are on the same tires.Through 2013, his rear would be fairly worked and maybe graining on one side. He has since perfected his riding style, which consists of - 1. Entering the corner heavily trailing the brakes such that the rear wheel is off the ground/skipping.As he gets off the brakes the rear wheel crashes to the ground and the bike shudders.Most riders can do this but Marquez can do so consistently without crashing. 2. Getting more weight forward and inside while hanging off than most riders - Marquez has one and a half ass cheeks off the bike [ other riders have one ] and slightly rotates about the tank.His outside arm forms a 90 degree angle [ others are more obtuse ] and his helmet is right next to the fairing [ Others are a little behind ].He also drops his elbow more than others [ hence the need for elbow sliders ] and also his inside wrist is probably under some pressure because of the extreme angle his elbow is dropped at. 3. His picking up the bike is on par with Pedrosa [ who i think is one of the best, even Stoner acknowledged this ] but does not seem to spin the rear wheel as much as Stoner.There is talk that Marquez likes to dial down the electronics a bit to allow rear slide. Source - Observing Slo Mo video of MotoGP races. Quote
faffi Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Posted July 22, 2014 Well, I am not going to argue with a tyre bloke, even if it turns out he's just trying to establish a myth. As to electronics, I don't think anybody ride with so little electronic aid as Stoner. But whatever Marc does, it works. He's currently as dominant as Rossi was - or could have been - when he rode a Honda. Remember Australia in 2003? But the competition is arguably stiffer these days, making Marquez for the time being the fastest rider ever. Quote
Stroker Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 One more thing, Bridgestone would never make a tire that can last TWICE the race distance.That is pointless and would offer too little grip and too much durability even for a hard compound.And Marquez, like Stoner is hard on machinery. I think Rossi still has it, but the competition today is what Rossi should have had back then.It is certainly an era of champions. Most dirt trackers like to dial down the electronics and use sliding to their advantage.Nicky Hayden also went faster with them turned down. Quote
faffi Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Posted July 23, 2014 Double race distance is likely an exaggeration used to allow the layman to understand just how much less he wears his tyres compared to the competition. Speaking of rear tyres - do you remember McCoy? He was sliding and spinning everywhere, sometimes disengaged from his bike, yet his tyres ran the coolest and suffered the least wear. Apparently, he heated the surface only, but the core stayed cool because there was much less stress on the tyre structure when sliding than when loaded heavily with max grip. Quote
Stroker Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 I do remember Mc Coy, and was also surprised to learn that spinning only heated the tire superficially. But that was 160-170hp 2 stroke machinery.The heavier and 250 hp 4 strokes and the different tires of today may react differently. Lorenzo's smooth corner speed oriented lines for instance load the tires a fair bit more than the pick up style of Marquez who tries to have the bike stood up as much as possible.However, Lorenzo has plenty of tire left at the closing laps, enough to charge and battle if need be.Marquez tries to work the tires from the start, get away a bit and then settle into a comfortable pace. Stoner would sometimes run out of tire remember, and had to settle for second or third.If his sliding style caused less tire wear, maybe that should not have happened? I am curious on this matter. Quote
ktk_ace Posted July 26, 2014 Report Posted July 26, 2014 I do remember Mc Coy, and was also surprised to learn that spinning only heated the tire superficially. But that was 160-170hp 2 stroke machinery.The heavier and 250 hp 4 strokes and the different tires of today may react differently. Lorenzo's smooth corner speed oriented lines for instance load the tires a fair bit more than the pick up style of Marquez who tries to have the bike stood up as much as possible.However, Lorenzo has plenty of tire left at the closing laps, enough to charge and battle if need be.Marquez tries to work the tires from the start, get away a bit and then settle into a comfortable pace. Stoner would sometimes run out of tire remember, and had to settle for second or third.If his sliding style caused less tire wear, maybe that should not have happened? I am curious on this matter. That was before advance/mature TC systems (and ducati's tc systems are only beginning to show maturity on their street machines , which imho tells alot) If you read up on TC systems, the 2011 production Kawasaki ZX10R actually permits (controlled) slippage with the use of wheel speed sensors alone (cost) and it does it very well imho. Comparison http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/156/14099/Motorcycle-Article/Kawasaki-ZX-10R-Traction-Control-Comparison.aspx Tech jargon: http://www.visordown.com/uploads/images/Large/21455.jpg PS. The closest production bike next to a full blown WSBK bike will still be the BMW HP4 on virtue of its suite of sensors and active damping electronic suspension ... or untl some other company comes and play catch up (which i bet wont be soon, not for the next 2-3 years , given the Japnese big 4 are pretty campy ... ) Quote
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