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Today, I believe I finally caught the quick steering thing. I have read that changing directions quickly will reduce the need for lean. Or shorten the corner if you use the same amount of lean. These things I have accepted without fully grasping what's going on. But today, using sharp, brief steering inputs on my aging Z650 followed by immediate grip relaxation, it finally dawned on me; when you quick steer you compensate my leaning less. Or the other way around; lazy steering require that you compensate with more lean. To most this may seem trivial (and for all I know the same wording may have been used already), but for me, the word compensate was a big thing.

 

As you were. I just had to share it :)

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Good to know that my moped is of a much higher tech level than your Z650 ...

I clicked like 2 months into the book/video program :)

better late than never!! *runs off!!

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That's awesome Eirik. You are not alone. I'm also experiencing some light bulb moments myself these days. I have a feeling that they won't be stopping anytime soon. :)

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...But today, using sharp, brief steering inputs on my aging Z650 followed by immediate grip relaxation, it finally dawned on me; when you quick steer you compensate my leaning less...

Eirik,

 

Congratulations on your discovery! I know it's a great feeling to make progress like that. Based on what you said above though, I want to ensure you have the technical points of quick steering exactly right. You spoke of using sharp, brief steering inputs. Are you "punching" the bar to quick turn, or are you using a harder pressure to get the bike to quick turn?

 

Cheers,

Benny

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I have practiced "punching" a bit lately, just to see what happens. This has been done when lean is moderate. I became highly surprised how well the bike reacted to this, with instant change of direction followed by total neutral handling. An input last only a tenth or two, quite cool. I have not tried it at an elevated pace, it doesn't feel natural.

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I have practiced "punching" a bit lately, just to see what happens. This has been done when lean is moderate. I became highly surprised how well the bike reacted to this, with instant change of direction followed by total neutral handling. An input last only a tenth or two, quite cool. I have not tried it at an elevated pace, it doesn't feel natural.

Eirik,

 

"Punching" the bar (i.e. moving it quickly) will make the bike lean quickly, but also adds instability. I expect your bike shakes a little before settling down? That may be why it doesn't feel natural to you. The proper technique for quick turning the bike is to apply MORE PRESSURE to the bar (i.e. smoothly push harder, not faster). The harder you press, the quicker the bike leans over. The instant it is at the lean angle you want, simply stop pressing on the bar, relax and begin your throttle roll on. It's ok to be rough with your technique in the beginning like you described, but now I recommend you try this and see if you get an even better result. Let me know how it goes.

 

Cheers,

Benny

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I have always used "normal" quick steering since I began riding back in 1980 simply because it felt natural. And also safer, because I could get further into a corner before turning, allowing me to see better if the road was clear. I didn't know that it had a name until I read TWOT2, but it's what I've done by instinct.

 

I cannot feel any instability when I hit the steering as long as I relax instantly. It has amazed me how quickly and effortlessly the bike will go through a set of esses this way - otherwise, I have often noticed I quite a bit effort without much happening and it can take serious force to turn the bike rapidly. But with a hit, I hardly notice the power required and it happens very, very quick.

 

Hitting the steering sharply is not something I plan to implement as a permanent riding style, it was just something I have tried a little on my last two rides. I do think I can benefit from using a more rapid steering technique, though, by using a very quick movement with high effort but without an actual hit. What are the risks with this? Loss of traction? Dangerous instability?

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I have always used "normal" quick steering since I began riding back in 1980 simply because it felt natural. And also safer, because I could get further into a corner before turning, allowing me to see better if the road was clear. I didn't know that it had a name until I read TWOT2, but it's what I've done by instinct.

 

I cannot feel any instability when I hit the steering as long as I relax instantly. It has amazed me how quickly and effortlessly the bike will go through a set of esses this way - otherwise, I have often noticed I quite a bit effort without much happening and it can take serious force to turn the bike rapidly. But with a hit, I hardly notice the power required and it happens very, very quick.

 

Hitting the steering sharply is not something I plan to implement as a permanent riding style, it was just something I have tried a little on my last two rides. I do think I can benefit from using a more rapid steering technique, though, by using a very quick movement with high effort but without an actual hit. What are the risks with this? Loss of traction? Dangerous instability?

You should revise the quick flick chapter in the video and books, there are some conditions that are dangerous/ adds massive instability when doing that :)

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Perhaps it doesn't become a wobble since I virtually let go of the bars immediately after the input, barely touching them :huh: I don't know. It's just an experiment, not a permanent change in the way I ride, although I do plan to use more assertive movements than before.

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I cannot feel any instability when I hit the steering as long as I relax instantly. It has amazed me how quickly and effortlessly the bike will go through a set of esses this way - otherwise, I have often noticed I quite a bit effort without much happening and it can take serious force to turn the bike rapidly. But with a hit, I hardly notice the power required and it happens very, very quick.

 

Hitting the steering sharply is not something I plan to implement as a permanent riding style, it was just something I have tried a little on my last two rides. I do think I can benefit from using a more rapid steering technique, though, by using a very quick movement with high effort but without an actual hit. What are the risks with this? Loss of traction? Dangerous instability?

That relax immediately after you complete your steering is absolutely critical and that would help diminish any wobble very quickly. That's absolutely the correct thing to do when you complete your steering. I can't explain the lack of wobble if you are truly punching the bar. I suspect that either you're not truly "punching" the bar in the way I envision, or perhaps you're using only a little lean angle. Punching the bar to a higher lean angle compresses the fork very quickly and causes it to rebound excessively, causing a wiggle. I wish I could observe what is going on. Nonetheless, congrats on your discoveries!

 

Cheers,

Benny

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I cannot feel any instability when I hit the steering as long as I relax instantly. It has amazed me how quickly and effortlessly the bike will go through a set of esses this way - otherwise, I have often noticed I quite a bit effort without much happening and it can take serious force to turn the bike rapidly. But with a hit, I hardly notice the power required and it happens very, very quick.

 

Hitting the steering sharply is not something I plan to implement as a permanent riding style, it was just something I have tried a little on my last two rides. I do think I can benefit from using a more rapid steering technique, though, by using a very quick movement with high effort but without an actual hit. What are the risks with this? Loss of traction? Dangerous instability?

That relax immediately after you complete your steering is absolutely critical and that would help diminish any wobble very quickly. That's absolutely the correct thing to do when you complete your steering. I can't explain the lack of wobble if you are truly punching the bar. I suspect that either you're not truly "punching" the bar in the way I envision, or perhaps you're using only a little lean angle. Punching the bar to a higher lean angle compresses the fork very quickly and causes it to rebound excessively, causing a wiggle. I wish I could observe what is going on. Nonetheless, congrats on your discoveries!

 

Cheers,

Benny

 

 

rebound...hmm... Maybe his bike + him is just tuned/lucked out to the rebound damping hence the lack of a wobble as the weight + action just about cancels out the reaction force.

 

Both bike and rider are heavy from what i see.

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As mentioned, I do not use the technique together with greater lean angles. We're talking no more than 30 degrees here. I turn the bike with one sharp, instant hit that last just a tenth or two, and the bike drop to the desired lean angle virtually immediately. I run much more rebound damping than what's typical for track bikes, but not sure if that matters. The change of direction is so immediate, I would be surprised if the suspension had time to react much at all - especially with all that stiction that comes with old time suspension that doesn't even have bushings. Perhaps I'm saved by the stiction - if that's the case, it's the first positive quality I've heard of for the annoying feature :D

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