Rifleman Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 removed by author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Code Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Since you guys are talking about ancient history let me roll the clock back to the 70's and the Dunlop K81 aka TT100 tires came on the scene along with Michelin's PZ series tires. They slid a gripped and did all the thngs tires should do but they didn't do it very long and didn't like heat. In lots of ways they were easier to learn on than what you can buy today simply because you could get to a sketchy traction situation so easily. Now admittedly, part of the was the frames and suspension being of such comparative poor quality./ You learned how to ride "loose" or you couldn't win at any level of racing. Also realize trhat everything at that time was bias ply and now everything is radial and that is a huge part of the difference you experience in cornering and the feel of the tires. In the end you can ride fast on just about anything that has rubber covering the cords these days. You would not believe what some of our instructors do to a set of Dunlops that are already Pro race takeoffs. They can run them another 5 or more days at the schools and still run with respectable lap times. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Thanks for the insight Mr. Code. This just further proves that it is an inferior craftsman that blames his tools instead of aquiring more skill. I'll see to it that I post a pic later this year with the chicken strips properly removed from those Metzlers... and no, it won't be done with a belt sander!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Rifleman, I hadn't looked at this thread for awhile but your last post about tires does have a connection to dragging a knee IMHO. I found that once I went to a race compound tire and began to "feel" the difference in traction, my confidence in them holding grew alot. With that, I began to carry more corner speed, more lean angle and dragging a knee was a natural progresion of that process. My 2 cents worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adifferentname Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Keith's article on bad sides left or right http://www.superbikeschool.com/bbs/index.p...t=ST&f=11&t=111 really opened the door for me on being able to crank the bike over with ease, especially moving with the bike in concert with its motion. I could get my knee down already but understanding the concepts in this article (and practising the drill a few times) allows me to throw the bike over with confidence and maintain a loose grip on the bars. If you are really serious you could repeat to yourself daily "I move with the bike in concert with its motion" (or whatever similar statement tickles your fancy) untill it is in your head (do the drill too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Warming tires by weaving side to side doesn't work and is dangerous. Roadracing World did a detailed test of the weaving trick, and it just doesn't get job done. What DOES work is hard acceleration and hard braking while STRAIGHT UP. Lots more force can be put into the tires with the throttle and brakes than by the dinky amount of side force generated by weaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 removed by author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Look not to Sumo wrestlers to learn Fencing. Rather, look to master fencers. NASCAR and F-1 are fundamentally different from pavement motorcycles. Check out what Rossi, either Bostrom brother, or Mladin (for example) are doing for relevent examples of successful pavement motorcycle operation. None of those guys weave on warmup laps. About sticky tires: I bet you really are going fast enough to feel the traction difference. As I understand it, motorcycles are always skittering about a wee bit. We don't notice it most of the time because it's just part of the background noise of riding. The front end, for instance, is always doing a cyclic weave: off to one side, then "auto-correcting" back towards center, which it overshoots and then the cycle happens again. Forever. Or until you hit ice :-) which will cause an instant crash because the traction is gone for the weaving "auto-correction" to happen. Everyone who puts on sticky tires for the first time comes back from whatever ride they next go on and comment about how much difference the tires make. Try it, you'll like it ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Alwayslearning & Rifleman : Also read an article of the best method of how to warm the tires on a racetrack (it was with tire technicians from the manufacturer). They tested multiple areas of the tire, as well as track temperature each time. As Alwayslearning said: The best way to warm the tires was to go hard (accelerate and braking). But they did state that two or three weaves (no more) at the end of the lap will assist to expose nice fresh rubber and not affect the tire temperature. I’ve followed the above for the past two years, and haven’t had any problems. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 removed by author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 You can get the bead to seat by bouncing the wheel/tire on the ground really hard. Hole it upright, as it will be when installed on the bike, and slam it into the ground a few times. Rotate the wheel so different spots get hit/pushed onto the rim. Then use a high volume source of air, like from a compressor. A hand pump won't do it. Sportec, or any other modern sport tire, will hold on going as fast as one can go on the street. Don't sweat traction with these babies, they've got more if it than you've got visibility around the curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwayslearning Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Tire warming: Weaving is just a dangerous thing to do. Especially after doing most of a lap using normal lines. Suddenly starting to weave at lap's end could cause somone who had determined you ride predictably, and wants to pass you, to slam into you from behind when you suddenly become erratic. You're not going to get any further over than you did going around the corners already, so what's the point of weaving on a straight? I'm all for scrubbing in the whole width of a tire. I've found that just "dipping" the bike a little more in the final stage of a corner, when I can finally see down the upcoming straight works fine. I can also feel for max lean angle the bike can attain this way. It works for some magazine guys. It works for me. Do you think it might work for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Weaving isn't dangerous if done right. As I said; it is only two or three weaves at the end of the lap. Which is usually after the last mashalling point (waving yellow) and the start grid as we are all slowing down. And I don't start (or finish) the weave going across the entire track, the first weave is gentle as a kind of warning. My purpose/reason for weaving as above, is to expose fresh rubber as we are all slowing down to grid up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paab Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Bones, No offense intended: I think it's dangerous. I run my warm-up lap hard. As a result, I'm often in front of people gridded ahead of me. Weaving is chaos. There is no good reason to do it. As alwayslearning mentioned, you just exposed the "fresh rubber" on your warm-up lap!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 No offence taken Maybe we should all print multiple copies of this article Weaving Does Not Warm Tires Faster and hand it to all of our fellow competitors? Maybe then they will all stop weaving, and we'll all send less time waiting on the grid Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 removed by author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinal Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 That sounds like fun You get promoted to a different level based on the number of constructive posts you've made. It can be set in the forum software and apparently the threshold for the first promotion is 10 posts. ~Sentinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 removed by author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-man Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Here is the big secret to dragging your knee......go faster it will happen. To have it happen faster, body positioning comes into play. The rider above from Summit point appears to have his head up high over the windscreen. You want to really lock in your body and get your chest leaning on the edge of the tank and get your head on the side of the windscreen. You want your upper body to line up with your lower body. Many riders will shift a cheek off the bike but keep their upper body centered in respect to the windscreen. This makes for a high center of gravity, plus by doing this your knee will have further to go to touch the ground. Sit on your bike and sit straight up and put your knee out, look how far it is from the ground. Lets say you are making a right turn...Slide 1 cheek onto the side of the seat, take your left foot and stand on the balls of your feet, lock in your heal to the heal guard, keep your left leg tight on the tank, lock your left knee in, keep your ass back in the seat or better get leverage by putting your ass against the back of the seat(this will also make the next item easier), rest your chest on the edge of the tank, keep your left arm around the edge of the tank(if comfortable you can rest that elbow on the tank), get your head on the right side of the wind screen, lock your right heel into the heel guard, put your right toe on the edge of the peg and keep your right sholder facing down towards the asphalt. You want your shoulders to line up with your where your butt is. Locking all these bodyparts in will allow you to be feather light on the bars and lay across the bike while keeping a very low center of gravity, also it will get your knee closer to the ground. Oh yeah did I say go faster? That will help. Once you drag your knee once it is easy to keep doing it, then a day will come where you wish it wasn't dragging so much because your running through knee pucks on a regular basis. Especially at Jennings, that track seems to be the coarsest I've run on and went through 1/2 a set of pucks in a day. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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