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Here is some info from Dylan that you might find interesting:

 

Dunlop just released a new sportbike tire, the Q4. This tire is different from what many think it is. It is NOT an improved Q3+ but rather a whole new category of tire. Its purpose is to provide a street legal tire with excellent grip, no need for warmers, that is at home on the track or on your favorite twisty road. Essentially it fills the gap between the Q3+ and the street legal race tire, the GPA Pro.

 

So the progression looks like this:

Q3+. Best all purpose tire. Harder center band for commuting, with sides well suited for cornering.

Q4. Best for trackdays and canyons/twisty roads. Warms fast, less sensitive to pressure settings. Single compound across entire tread. Any loss in overall mileage is gained in grip compared to Q3+.

GPA Pro. Essentially a race slick with grooves. Warmers strongly recommended particularly when cool and pressures checked and set before riding. Street legal. Poor choice for commuting but good for twisty roads and very much at home on the track.

Slicks. Pure track only tire. Warmers strongly recommended with pressures checked and set before riding.

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On 8/22/2018 at 5:19 PM, Dylan Code said:

No we are going to be sticking with the Q3+ on the fleet bikes due to its all around versatility, durability, etc.

Bummer! Perhaps you guys can provide them as an option for the Code RACE? I typically opt for the slicks on those days, but would be nice to have an option for something stickier than the Q3+ that will heat up a little faster than the slicks.

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Sure if it's cold the Q4 would probably be a better choice than the slicks but the slicks will grip better when they have warmed up. Yes if someone wants to upgrade to the Q4 that's no problem.

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Hi guys. I've gone through 2 sets of Q4s so far and loved them. On my 675 and at a slower pace, they seemed to have decent wear. I just ran through a set on a 1000 and at -10 sec, I'm getting 2 track days out of a set. The rear went off in session 3 of track day 3.

I've been researching and it appears that 2-2.5 track days is all you can hope to get out of the Q4s.

So my question is do slicks last longer? I've read that to maximize the life out of slicks, you need to use warmers so they don't go in and out of temp (fewer heat cycles). How many track days could I hope to get out of a set of Dunlop slicks assuming I use warmers?

Thanks.

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Thanks, Dylan! Okay so now I need to do the math to see how long it takes to make up for buying a generator and warmers. I know you guys sell the GPAs. Do you also sell the K448/K451?

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Dylan, I was doing some research about tire sizes because my bike comes with a manual that says "if you use Supercorsa V2, then use 200 rear but with any other tire, use 190." That concerned me bc Dunlop doesn't make a race tire in 190.

So I started doing some research and ran across a post you made about tire sizes on another forum a few years ago. Based on your post, I think it's safe to mount a KR451 in 200  on my bike/rim size. 

My bike comes with a manual that says "if you use Supercorsa V2, then use 200 rear but with any other tire, use 190." That concerned me bc Dunlop doesn't make a race tire in 190. I'm going to disregard the manual and mount a KR451 in 200 - verifying with the Dunlop guy that works at our local track daI'm going to disregard the manual and mount a KR451 in 200 - verifying with our trackside Dunlop guy.

That led me another post you made about the heat-cycle myth. Apparently the heat-cycle thing is a myth with respect to Dunlops at least. That's very good info. The one part of it that confuses me is that on Dunlop's own FAQ page, they say the following:

Quote

Dunlop recommends that tire warmers be set at 70°-80°C for 45 minutes to 1 hour (maximum); tire performance degradation may occur if tires are subjected to repeated tire warming cycles, and/or temperatures/times in excess of these.

That appears to contradict their other statements.

BTW, this link you posted http://www.dunlopracing.com/Warmers.pdf is a dead link now. Not sure if it was moved or if they just got rid of it. I wanted to read more about what you said regarding not plugging warmers right after a session. It makes sense - don't add heat to an already hot tire - but how long do you wait before plugging it in? Assuming you get 40 min btwn sessions, how long do you let the tires cool off before adding heat again?

 

 

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I've ridden many different tire sizes on different bikes and really can't tell much of a difference once I get a few laps on them. I've ridden a 1000 with a 180 rear and it was fine... if you A/B compared you'd feel the difference I'm sure. Slicks last longer than street tires, at least the Dunlops do. Heat cycles are what our coach tires experience all day long every day they are ridden. It may make a 3% difference but nothing anyone could feel easily.

1) Don't sweat the size issue. 200's are fine. The AMA 600 class used to run 200 rear slicks...

2) Get slicks if you want durability (and grip).

3) Use warmers with the slicks to ensure you don't get a cold tire crash.

4) Worry more about tread depth than heat cycles.

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18 hours ago, Dylan Code said:

I've ridden many different tire sizes on different bikes and really can't tell much of a difference once I get a few laps on them. I've ridden a 1000 with a 180 rear and it was fine... if you A/B compared you'd feel the difference I'm sure. Slicks last longer than street tires, at least the Dunlops do. Heat cycles are what our coach tires experience all day long every day they are ridden. It may make a 3% difference but nothing anyone could feel easily.

1) Don't sweat the size issue. 200's are fine. The AMA 600 class used to run 200 rear slicks...

2) Get slicks if you want durability (and grip).

3) Use warmers with the slicks to ensure you don't get a cold tire crash.

4) Worry more about tread depth than heat cycles.

Dylan- If you don't mind, I need a little context to understand what you're saying here. So my question is: What's the comparison of miles on a coach bike to student bike (with 3 riders) on any given school day?

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Then may I humbly suggest that if the coaches are basically riding all day, there may not be sufficient time for the tires to cool enough to be considered a "heat cycle", that instead they stay within a heat range throughout the day. Moot point, but it may be useful in a data collection scenario to understand how a street rider or trackday guy isn't getting the same mileage the coaches do (besides the obvious skills gaps).

Looking further into this, I found that car racers actually PAY for someone to heat cycle their tires for them. Tire Rack for example, charges $15 to heat up an R-Series racing tire to full operating temperature to break the molecular bonds so they can reform and realign under cooling conditions that take 24-48hrs without load being on them. Might be snake oil (I dunno), but folks are paying for it.

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Coaches find that between sessions if they wait for their student to come around the track that their tires cool down enough to not provide sufficient grip. So in some cases they can lose their temperature within three or four minutes.

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3-4 minute cool down is quite significant!

I notice that on the grid of MotoGP and WSBK, they remove the tire warmers just before the sighting lap and it appears they aren't going fast enough to heat the tires (???). If this is true then it means they're losing some temperature during that lap, considering the ambient and surface temps are lower than the hot temperature coming right off warmers. They seem to get back to race pace by about lap 2-3 but it's not a fair comparison of standing start vs a rolling start.

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