Jump to content
slylos

I attended Level 1 and crashed - here's what happened

Recommended Posts

So I attended the level 1 school at Barber a couple days ago and during the second track session I low sided. My bike was almost going to be just fine until it hit the grass and flipped, pretty much destroying the poor girl. I wanted to share why I crashed, why I think the exercise of "no brakes" is bad, but also why it's good. Lastly I wanted to share so others can learn from my depressing experience.

For starters - I'm 100% fine. Leathers did their job, took all of the abrasion damage and I walked away unscathed, and sad.

Here's what happened:

I went into turn 5 with too much heat. I committed to not using the brakes since in session 1 I did use some brakes (including trail braking into turn 5 when I came in with too much heat but made the corner unscathed and without any issue) so the only hope I had of slowing was engine braking. Turns out engine braking in 3rd gear on my GSX-S1000 really isn't great. Combined with the downhill at turn 5 I just wasn't going to slow down enough to feel safe. However, my speed actually wasn't the main issue.

The main issue is I kept adding lean angle to force my bike on the line I wanted. Note that I didn't need to force this line but for whatever reason I felt like I had to in the moment. I was already at the inside of the corner - I had nearly 5 car lengths of track to my right and nobody around me. I could have let the bike drift some and go a little wide, but in the moment I didn't. That's when the feeler bolt on my left peg started to drag. Ultimately this is what took me down: the feeler bolt caused the rear tire to lift a little and it washed out, causing a low side.

Why I think "no brakes" is a bad exercise

Turns out I actually don't think it's bad - what I think is bad is the lack of guidance by coaches and instructors on how to actually ride the track with throttle only. I asked around and it turns out nearly everyone was using brakes the entire time. I get the whole idea of being a better judge of corner entry speed, but the moment you're too hot, unless you're already on the brakes you're going to start braking while leaning which is bad. In fact the guidance should be trail brake every corner but with minimal brake pressure just in case you're in too hot. I tried to commit to "no brakes" but that means you just can't make a entry speed mistake or you pay the price. Before you say "you should have known better": remember - coaches that I've paid money to teach me told me to do the exercise with no brakes. They put it entirely on me to know if I needed brakes, but am I not a student there to learn? Before you say "well that's why they don't teach beginners", just know that there were multiple people there who didn't even understand what counter steering is. If you got your motorcycle license in nearly any state, you understand counter steering. So I don't buy the "we don't teach beginners" argument.

Why I think "no brakes" is a good exercise

It turns out that removing brakes from the equation lowers the cognitive load while riding and I actually felt freer to just ride and explore the track. Given that lack of brakes was not the main reason I crashed, I still think it's useful for the end goal: judging corner speed and following lines. Taking brakes out of the equation makes the learning process a bit simpler. What I would beg for instructors to do is limit it to 2nd gear only. In 3rd gear I can quite easily hit 120mph. In 4th gear (which they also allowed) I can quite easily hit 135mph. So yes: do the "no brakes" exercise, but 2nd gear only is the right way to do it. The point of the first two exercises is methodology and technique - make it clear there will be more "fun" to be had later in the day (maybe even offer an open session as the last session of the day) but encourage everyone to slow the heck down.

 

Here's a more in depth assessment of what I think went wrong with me:

1. If I had trail braked into turn 5 I would have been fine hands down
2. If I had not tried to force my line and let the bike drift a little I would have been fine. I was on the inside of the turn and had 5 car lengths of track to my right and had no reason to force my line. I had plenty of space and nobody around me and I could have just not leaned so much. In my head it was more important to follow my line but also to not use brakes (because they said so). One major take away is don't force your line with lean, maintain your line with trail braking and throttle control but at all costs allow the bike to use all available space rather than leaning more
3. I *think* I may have had enough time to lean the bike back up a bit after hitting the feeler on my peg. But it happened so fast that it went from touching to wiping out within like 3/4 of a second and I just wasn't ready for it - in fact I assumed I could let the peg keep touching and be fine
4. Part of me wonders if I kept trying to lean after the peg touched and maybe that's what lifted the back tire rather than the peg doing it alone. Although after watching videos like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6XsByRh14I this guy just touched his peg and the back wheel shifted which seems to indicate it really was the peg just grabbing and lifting.

 

Anyway - my final assessment of level 1 is it was worth the money because I did learn things I didn't know before and some important lessons were taught (other than my crash). My caution is that coaching takes very little ownership of your safety so by all means do what YOU think is safe which means when they say "no brakes but 3rd gear" and you're on a liter bike, 2nd gear is probably safer if you actually plan to not use the brakes. Oh and make sure you ignore all the pro racers riding around you attending the same school you are because they'll probably make you do something stupid. Finish the school safely and you'll get plenty of value out of level 1.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about your crash. Things are always clearer in hindsight. Did you write down your concerns on the end of day questionnaire for the staff? You should definitely raise your concerns with them.

I would like to offer my two cents as a random passerby, for what it's worth. Hindsight is always clearer though. If you're coming in too hot, screw the drill for that corner, you should always use the brakes rather than chance it. Ultimately, safety is the #1 priority. There is always the next corner to practice the no brakes drill. Just as an FYI for when you return, the 3/4 no brakes first session does not end at level 1. Although your peers might have said they all use the brakes, I can say that most riders I've seen while cornerworking do follow the no brakes drill for the most part. The issue isn't gear selection, but throttle application on the preceding straight. First session is slow. That being said, I have definitely overcooked a few corners and had to use the brakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about the down.

I think Apollo has the core of it, and if your lecturer didn't say to obviously use the brakes if you needed then that does seem to be an oversight. I'll put a clip in at the end from the Superbike UK's level 1 presentation -- should jump to 18:16 -- which is the clearest explanation of 'how' and 'why' to do the drill (including using the brakes if you must).

In my experience, the no-brake drill is best approached in a stepwise manner and helps tune entry speed and understanding of slowing from things other than the brakes (tire drag, lean angle, engine braking)... I can say I definitely cover the brakes but don't need to trail brake in for this drill (and a mild brake application mid turn can be done safely -- just be smooth and be open to needing to stand the bike up a bit, and definitely don't be adding brake while you're still trying to bend the bike over further).

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Slylos,

Like the others, very sorry to hear about this.  I got a report on the day, I think yours was the only incident (and glad you are OK).   

I'd like to follow up with you on this, talk with you, get some more info.

I'll email you.

Best,

Cobie

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man sorry to hear of your crash and not to dog on you (maybe a little), but common sense goes a long way.

If they were to say: "stay on your bike at all times" and it catches fire, what are going to do??

This kinds of illustrates the situation. As mentioned above, there are many corners to practice the no brake session. I don't think blaming the coaches is right. In my class there was one student that probably was too green to even be there for Level 1. I thought he was going to be a casualty and ended being very successful and doing great in the Level 2. I am sure this course saved him from being a statistic on the street. 

Your statement pretty much sums it up for your mishap, maybe a little too soon for this course???

"If you got your motorcycle license in nearly any state, you understand counter steering. So I don't buy the "we don't teach beginners" argument."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/25/2020 at 11:34 AM, Red_Baron said:

If they were to say: "stay on your bike at all times" and it catches fire, what are going to do??

Your statement pretty much sums it up for your mishap, maybe a little too soon for this course???

"If you got your motorcycle license in nearly any state, you understand counter steering. So I don't buy the "we don't teach beginners" argument."

Well like I say in my original post, I accept full responsibility for my crash and I am not blaming anyone. What I am trying to say is that there should be more guidance on how to properly ride with no brakes, especially on a bike that in 3rd and 4th gear will do 135mph. Clearly I know fire burns, but perhaps I don't know that if I lean my bike too far the peg will catch and cause me to low side? Was I not there to learn how to properly ride? I saw multiple guys out there that didn't even know what counter-steering was and were literally learning it for the first time so "common sense" apparently is limited among new riders.

I certainly don't mind anyone dogging me for my crash - I mean there *is* a valuable lesson there that lines right up with what CSBS teaches: reduce lean angle.

I don't understand your comment "maybe a little too soon for this course" - I was saying there were people there that probably should not have been there it's not like there's anyone filtering riders for experience when they sign up. I'm not new to riding either.

 

Anyway to make it crystal clear: I do not blame anyone but myself for my crash however there could and should be more guidance on how to stay safe so focus can be placed solely on throttle control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry to hear about your crash. I'm not sure what to say in response to your post; I am coach with a school and our absolute #1 priority is to keep riders from crashing. I know that in the classroom there is quite a bit of explanation about how to do the no-brakes drill. Riders are told that this is a drill and not a rule - riders may of course use the brakes if needed for safety, the brakes are not disabled and the only consequence of using the brakes during the drill is possibly a corner worker showing a blue flag to remind that rider about the drill. The point of the exercise is to focus on setting entry speed properly without relying on the brakes, which slow the bike down rapidly and make it harder to judge an exact speed. Riders are instructed that one must allow extra room for the bike to slow down and that it is OK to use the brakes if needed. Additionally riders are asked to ride at a reduced pace, one that is very comfortable for them, for sure not higher than about 75% of what they would consider their normal riding pace, in order to have enough free attention to focus on the drill. 

As far as required experience level,  this is what is stated on the website: 2000 miles of riding experience is required, along with being comfortable enough to operate the motorcycle and still have enough free attention to take in new information. I believe that info is also restated in the paperwork sent to any student who signs up. For sure we get students who do not understand counter-steering, even some who ride very well and have ridden for 30 years; everyone who rides a two-wheel motorcycle countersteers, but not everyone really understands how it works. :)

Again, I am sorry to hear of your crash; I see that Cobie (who is the Chief Riding Coach Worldwide for the school) has offered to speak with you on the phone if you would like to talk through what happened with him, that is a nice offer and could be quite helpful to you in your riding (he can help diagnose exactly what factors led up to the crash); as you might imagine he has an enormous knowledge base and exceptional riding and coaching experience, and of course he will be very interested in hearing what happened especially if there was something more that could have been done to prevent it. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...