StevenAthas
-
Posts
46 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by StevenAthas
-
-
May I suggest that the issue isn't the need to tighten the line, but something going on with line selection and plan execution? Otherwise, what are the reasons why someone would want to tighten a line mid-corner? Immediately what comes to mind are decreasing radius (DR) turns, but I'm sure there are other reasons....
In a DR, adding another steering input is necessary because it's really 2 turns in rapid succession. Is your speed and trajectory set for the 2nd turn or are all of your eggs in the 1st turn's basket?
Is the bike's steering geometry working for or against you? How do you change the equation?
Okay.. I see what you're saying. So lets use DR turns as the main focus (since it's basically achieving the same end goal). While leaned over, not maxed out lean.. to hit the apex of that second turn; countersteer or hook turn?
-
Hey guys,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond to my questions. I totally agree with you both that lean angle and throttle shouldn't be added concurrently but my question is while maintaining throttle, can lean angle be added by countersteering a bit more? So basically not rolling on anymore, only keeping the throttle maintained. Are you saying that the throttle would need to be completely off in order to add additional lean angle?The hook turn has been very helpful but it doesn't quite finish the turn as tight as I'd like some of the time. I find that I go wide. In my mind it feels like if I were to be able to add some input on the handle bars in these moments and countersteer the bike into a deeper lean angle, it'd get the job done more efficiently, I just don't want to compromise traction, so I just use the hook turn to tighten the turn.
Would maintainence throttle be an okay instance where I'd be able to countersteer the bike to initiate more lean angle?
This is all of course based on ideal conditions: clean, dry race track..
I feel like maybe I'm not explaining it well.
Thank you again for the input, I really appreciate it!
-
So this might be a dumb question, and I apologize if it is..lol
I sometimes have issues trusting my front tire when I am at lean and need to make a steering correction (tightening up the turn). I have really been practicing the hook turn technique and while it helps in situations where the correction is small, on situations where I need to lean the bike over more, I find myself reluctant to countersteer further. It's really a matter of trusting the front tire.
So my question is:
while I am maintaining throttle, in say a 40 degree lean angle, can I countersteer further? Does the rate of speed matter (Am I able to at 50mph and not at 100mph)?
This is something that has kind of plagued my growth as of late. I get into the corner with some speed, get on the throttle and if a correction needs to be made, I cease roll on and maintain throttle and get my head and shoulders lower to the inside of turn. This obviously works because this isn't a story of a crash I had, but can I just use the handle bars and countersteer further? (or do both)
I know that counterseering is used to set lean angle at the beginning of the turn, but is it smart to do it mid corner as long as you aren't on the gas? And where's the limit?
I hope I've explained this right. I'm working on getting to you guys in April at Streets for the weekend.. stoked.
-
1
-
-
Had, and still sometimes have this problem. For me it was a matter of getter farther back in the seat. I was rotating around the gas tank and my knee was never in the right place. I still find myself having this problem under hard braking but I'm working on squeezing my knees harder when it calls for it. Staying back in the seat, chest on the tank really helped a lot as far as connection to the bike. Could work for you..
-
I have some aftermarket rearsets on my bike now that are set up about an inch higher than stock, so my knee is pretty much on the tank when I hang off the bike. Not really sure how much weight is coming at a downward force, if any, on my pegs though. I can kind of visual use what you're saying; that clinching tightly with my ankle against the heel guard along with my knee being firmly against the tank, would provide a lot of stability. In order to do that though, I would definitely need to have at least a little bit of weight on the inside part of the seat.
Should I be pressing downward on that outside peg, or does gripping with my ankle create the same effect? Thank you as always for taking the time!
-
Thanks for the response. I've owned a copy of the book since 2009 and read it after almost every ride if I have any questionable moments lol It's awseome
So if I understand what the chapter says correctly, it talks about several areas on the body that can be used to grip the bike and the best of them are the pegs because it keep your weight lower on the bike. So grip the heelguard with my boots?
Is that right? not sure if I translated all that right.
-
Makes sense. You're spreading the weight around a bit.. So with you having some weight on the seat, how's it affecting you at the more bumpy tracks? Are you feeling any wheel hop/skip? A lot of the time that I have some weight on the seat, I feel like bumps are unsettling the bike.
-
Hey everyone,
Been a while since I've been on the forum to post but I always enjoy reading all of the discussions on here. I've been working on my BP a lot this past year and have made some good progress. One thing that I am having an issue with is consistency. I am still having to remind myself to get farther back into the seat so that I can get my knee out effectively and grip the tank with my outside thigh. So my question is how much weight are we supposed to keep on the actual seat? So when we have a one cheek hang off, is there supposed to still be any weight on that cheek or should all of the weight be on our pegs? I catch myself having all my weight on my pegs when cornering which doesn't always allow me the ability to open my hips out into the turn becuase I'm having to support my weight.
Any help is always appreciated and thanks in advance.
-
1
-
-
Your upper body looks too close to the tank and upright. In general you want to avoid pressing the front of the tank with your upperbody to limit body-tank shocks on the bike. You do want to lock your outside tight against the tank of course, that should be your main contact patch. But I know with Ducati it's different because of the tank shape. You can see that clearly in WSB, they ride very close to the tank.
With that lean angle I would also open the inside leg a bit more and drag the knee to have a max lean angle reference point.
I definitely feel like I'm up too close to the tank too but I struggle with sliding back in the seat without having to push backward with my arms, which we all know causes its own set of issues. Any suggesions that may help in getting myself further back without any handlebar movement?
Damn, I also tore my Achilles in April. Had to miss the school in May.
I started riding again about two months ago, but the leg does get tired after a while still.
Yeah man. It was rough as I'm sure you know. I had a full rupture and went the surgical route and I definitely feel some tenderness every once in a while but for the most part my recovery has been really good. After about 20 mins of riding it's loose and I don't experience any pain at all. I was actually able to go riding for 5-6 hours last weekend and felt absolutely fine. Hopefully your recover is going well and you can reschedule your school session soon.
Your butt seems to be in about the correct place (maybe even a bit too far off the seat?), but your upper body position needs work. To my eye, you could slide back further from the tank, straighten, your outside arm a bit, and get your head down and further to the inside. Normally your face should be just back of where your mirror would be. Currently your head is nearly in line with the centerline of the steering head - it should be much farther to the inside. Once you get your upper body more to the inside you could probably also rotate your hips a bit into the direction of the corner.
Are you a bit on the short side? That can really make it harder to get your body mass over to the inside, especially on a Ducati which usually has a long reach to the bars. Not sure about the 848 specifically.
Seems like everyone is agreement with me crowding the tank. Hopefully I can get that issue sorted soon. Definitely will be something I will ask about when I'm at the school. I remember reading once that the mantra is "bike follows body, and body follows head" which has helped me a lot but I run into an issue that I found discussed here on this forum a while ago; the helmet obstructing eye sight when tucked down. Seems the lower I go with my head, the lower the brow line of my helmet goes, which isn't very confidence inducing lol.
I'm 5'11" so I'm not that short. To be honest, I feel like I'm hanging off a lot, but everytime I see pictures, there's not much hanging off happening.
Given that this is a photo from a public roadway I think your body position looks pretty good,
Using aggressive track BP on public roads can result in very little lean angle for a given corner, and a lot of extra effort for minimal gain.
You are correct. I assume you know where these pictures come from then. I'm lucky enough to have some nice twisty roads where I live and don't over do it by any stretch but it's nice to be able to get out and enjoy some windy roads. Oddly enough, my experiences with those roads, make me want to go to a track more than anything else.
You all might laugh at this, but I still haven't even had SAG set up for me yet and the bike still has all the factory settings. The rear suspension is extremely stiff and the front feels really soft so could this affect my BP at all? (front forks compressing so much that it makes me crowd the tank or rear being stiff, not allowing me to feel comfortable in hanging off, etc...)
-
Hey Everyone,
Hope you all have been enjoying the season. I was planning on signing up for the June 6th Level 1 course this year at Streets of Willow, but unfortunately I tore my achilles playing basketball in April (I'm getting old
) and was finally cleared to ride again in August. After a look at my finances, it looks like I will be able to attend the October 24th date and I am beyond stoked! September can't be over soon enough.I feel like I have a fairly good understanding of throttle control but I can't seem to get my body positioning right. When I'm in the corners I feel like I'm off the bike quite a bit and everytime I look at pictures of myself, it doesn't even look like I'm close!
So I figured I'd post a picture and get some input. What should I be doing differently than what I'm doing now?
All input is appreciated. Thanks for taking the time
.
-
Probably lost the rear just enough and chopped the throttle.
-
watch this video:
Nicely done sir.
-
That, Sir is why you are who you are. That's exactly what I have so many problems with. Can't seem to keep the pressure on the lever as consistent as I want to. Still practicing this a lot..
Thank you as always for your input.
-
I'm not sure how fast you're going, but from the pictures, it doesn't look like you're countersteering. Looks like a lot of hang off but maybe not enough input into the handle bars. In most of the pictures, it looks like the you're turning into the turn, rather than away. It might be due to the fact that you're not going fast enough to need to, but countersteering the bike will definitely give you more of a lean angle as the bike will fall over.
And I don't mean to be discouraging, but maybe it's not the right time to start thinking about racing. Do you have a lot of trackdays under your belt?
-
Just under 40 PSI seems really high. I generally run 33-34 rear, 32 front; even on the street. Sounds like either tire pressure or a tire that isn't fully scrubbed.
Just my .02c.
-
YES!!! Can't wait to meet you guys this year!
-
LOL Poor guy. He's freaking gunning it on the straights though. Was he mad at the first guy passing him because he passed him on the inside?
What's tripping me out is how he's still keeping up with those guys; he keeps coming up on them just before the corners. Is there a speed limit or something?
No embarrassing photos or videos of me, but this past week I tipped my bike over standing still on a banked turn lol... It was pretty embarrassing.
no significant damage, but I broke my right side mirror, bent my rear brake lever, and got a little scratch on my clutch case.
Bruised my ego pretty good though.
-
It sounds like you're making progress. At least you can get it sometimes so we know you can do it. You'll get there. The blip is very much a muscle memory/habit thing. Does repetition help that? Could you practice that singular action just sitting on a parked bike a couple hundred times to get it down a bit better before your next ride?
Also, I wouldn't expect shorty levers to help this. If anything, the shape of a different lever might help, but not necessarily the length. New levers cost about as much as some track days. Practice in the garage is free. You choose which would be more helpful to you.
Cheers,
Benny
That is a great point. I'd still like to get shortys for the look but I definitely see more value in a track day where I can work on many other things. Thanks for chiming in.
Benny is correct, the profile and angle/height of the lever matter more.I haven't tried shorty levers, but i found how far out the lever was and what kind of angle it was set at made a difference.
I'll adjust the distance from the clip-ons and see if anything changes. Thanks for the feedback.
-
Been practicing this.. I'm still putting too much input on the brake as I blip. I find that as I twist the throttle to blip, I inadvertently release the brake a little bit. I've tried to counter it by squeezing the brake a little tighter and keeping the pressure on my two fingers but then i notice that my blip is all off (either too much or too little).
Not sure if shorty levers will help with this but I will be picking up a pair soon.
To be perfectly honest, I was really frustrated at the end of the day trying this out. I got it right a few times, but far less than preferred.
One thing I noticed, was that when downshifting clutchless and on the brake using a blip, it felt way more smooth and a little more consistent than when I was clutching. I have to blip much less which helps because I'm not applying too much pressure on the brake as I blip.
Definitely still a work in progress. Been one of the more challenging aspects of riding that I've encountered thus far.
-
Awesome!!
Thank you!
-
Soon young Jedi. Soon!!
lol am I charging again?
-
Hey everyone,
I have made my mind up that I will be doing Level I and Level II this upcoming year. I'm from the LA area so Willow is my closest bet... Hoping you guys offer something early in the year. Any idea on when the 2015 schedule will be coming out??
I'm already freaking pumped!
-
This is Stage 1 so to speak.Marquez is stage 2 lol....
That kid is amazing. He just came in and was faster than EVERYBODY... I remember when Lorenzo did that.
-
I can't be bothered to learn how to blip on downshifts because my slipper works perfectly (1000-cc V-twin). No rear wheel hop ever even if I dump the clutch. A bit of rear squirm maybe if I am braking hard but that's it. It's a sweet setup for a spaz like me who has little chance of maintaining constant brake pressure during a throttle blip.
How's the engine braking feel after you dump the clutch? With a blip it feels great. Takes all of that jerky feeling away. Does it feel the same or does the slipper clutch just help not lock up the wheel?
) and was finally cleared to ride again in August. After a look at my finances, it looks like I will be able to attend the October 24th date and I am beyond stoked! September can't be over soon enough.
Mid-Corner Countersteering
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
What other tools are you referring to? I'm not much of a fan of using rear brake mid turn to tighten the line, if that's what you mean.. I don't really use rear brake at all actually (maybe not a good thing).
Passing another rider, debris on the track.. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons to change your line, is there a specific instance you're eluding to?