rhema83
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Posts posted by rhema83
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Good observation--different riders look different on the bikes. Just as each of us walks a little different we tend to sit on the bike the way it feels best to us. Some riders do lots of stretching exercises, some look stiff, some relaxed.
*snip*
One thing you want to be aware of is the basic idea of why riders hang off and when you look at someone you can make a simple decision based on that.
The basic idea is to lower the combined center of gravity of the bik and the riders body mass which can only be done by bringing the body off the inside of the bike, this, among other things allows for less lean in the corners.
If they have their butts way off the seat but their upper body is countering that by being across the tank in the opposite direction they are not getting the full benefits of hanging off.
Instead of getting their weight to the inside of the bike their torso mass is countering that and they may be worse off than if they just sat up straight on the bike.
Use that as your guide and you can't go wrong if you are trying to learn hanging off.
Ben Spies "Elbows" rides like that because it is comfortable. try it yourself and see what it feels like. Try other body positions as well to see what they feel like, it is quite fun to mimic what a pro rider does on the bike and you can learn something about different body positions.
All of our Level III is based on this but we start setting you up at Level II on the "Lean Bike" which is when we work out the basics of how to do it best and fit you onto the bike.
Keith
Great piece of advice from the guru.
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I agree with Cobie. My SV650, which was my third street-going bike, was absolutely the most fun machine I've owned. With it, I did my first wheelie, rode to NYC and Toronto, and had the most comfortble 2-up rides.
Getting a literbike (or anything bigger) for a first bike is really not too wise. It is expensive to even drop in the carpark, and it is one of the fastest ways to get a new rider hurt (plus speeding tickets). Personally I think the 600 racebikes of yesteryears, which are now relegated to the "budget sport" or "sport touring" categories, are the best first bikes. You will have much more fun learning on an affordable '01 CBR600F4i Sport, for example, than on a brand new CBR600RR that killed your bank account.
All my track riding now is done on a '96 CBR400RR (same "generation" as racer's FZR400), and let me tell you, it is incredible. The lack of power (and thus acceleration) translates into the need for good lines and higher corner speeds. It reveals my mistakes candidly and constantly pushes me to work on my technique.
Did I also mention that it is much cheaper to buy and maintain a smaller bike?
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Your helmet should be where the mirror is on the right.
Keith
That's awesome advice, Keith. Thanks! Now I need to get on the track and practice it at comfortable speeds first. That'll be December when I get back home...
How I wish CSS can be held in NY state. I guess it'll be next year when I can go to Pocono, PA for some lessons personally.
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Thanks racer. I guess Keith must be busy over the weekend.
wacko, I think you suffer from the same mistake as I do. If you look at your last two pictures, the centerline of your body is pointing to the middle of the windscreen as well. I think many riders at Johor Circuit don't have proper training and make the same mistake as us.
Interestingly, the October '06 issue of Sport Rider has a feature on what AMA racers have to say about body positioning, followed by the analysis of their positions. Apparently, Mat Mladin has the most ideal position. No wonder he is the champion.
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Here is another pic of the same 60mph left-hander. Please don't mind the letters.
Was my body in a slightly better position? Or did I do worse?
Next is a pic of me doing a 80mph right-hander (right after the front straight). Sorry that it's blur. The person taking this photograph forgot to set my camera shutter speed.
Is my position any better? I notice that I need to sit nearer to the tank. But otherwise this looks pretty close to what I think it correct.
Kindly comment. Thanks!
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James,
IMO, the best example or easiest to see the total package is the 4th Rossi photo (shot from behind). The 3rd one just before it is pretty good to get an idea of head postion being down low, hence, the body parallel from the side view as well as coronal or above view.
Thanks again. That was really clear.
I looked at all my track photos yesterday. I think I am not consistent. I am in a better position (according to the standards we have came to agree on here) on right-handers, but I always feel less confident with them. I really need to go track a few more times and go slower than normal to work on the basics again.
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Whether on the seat or hanging off, centerline of the body... the head, the back, the spine, the butt in line and parallel with the bike.
Thank you!
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James,
The center line of the body to bike is a good place to start with your riding position and yes, hanging of to the floor can be more of a detriment to most riders than a help.
Get yourself in line with the bike and send us another shot.
Keith
Keith,
Thanks! I need a little bit of clarification, though. By "get yourself in line with the bike" do you mean getting the centerline of my body to be parallel to the centerline of the bike? Or do you mean, the two centerlines should be the same aka I stay on the seat. I just read in the latest issue of Sport Rider (I wonder how much credibility the columnists have) and they said something similar.
As the bike leans into the corner, shift your upper body off about an equal amount to your lower body so that your back is more or less parallel to the centerline of the bike but offset to the inside about four to six inches.
I hope I am not missing the whole point. Thanks a million!
James
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rhema83,
Look into the turn is great advice as is the shoulder pointing. There are other parts to good body position that are equally important to having your shoulder pointed toward the turn's direction.
I have a question. If you compared the shot you posted to Ben Spies or Danny Pedrosa or Val Rossi, etc., what would you say the difference between your head and upper body position and their's would be?
Keith
Hi Keith,
Since you mentioned Rossi, I will post a couple of pics from the very recent Sepang GP as our reference.
Honestly, what I notice is that Rossi doesn't hang off that much, and his chest is close to the tank at full lean. Also, his head is pointed slightly downward although I am sure he is looking far ahead in the corner.
Also, after a few more careful looks, I think the center line of his body makes a very very small angle with the center line of the bike. That means, he didn't use his hands as the fulcrum and rotated his butt outward. He "rolled" off the bike to the inside and hangs on with his outer knee and outer arm.
Am I correct?
I have this feeling that many riders, including myself, pay too much attention to hanging off itself and not realize that it's a mean to an end and not an end in itself.
Somebody once said "The best line ... is the one that most efficiently uses my tires. ... Lines aren't the objective, but merely a result." I think that applies to riding and cornering as well.
James
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I was fortunate enough to learn body positioning from semi-pro racers at my home track. The tip they initially gave me was to look where I want to go, and point my shoulder toward the same direction. It usually makes me hang off enough that the bike is not leaning too much, yet my knee sliders are not on the ground yet. (Refer to my signature pic.)
Braking In Corners
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
You are right. You don't. Brake before you reach max lean.