chopperbill
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Posts posted by chopperbill
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I just read that the operation went smoothly, but he needs to do the physical therapy exercises to get back all the mobility. I think he'll be there, he wants to be out there with Rossi!
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I think TC and ABS are fine on touring bikes when you have the bike fully loaded. It's hard to controll your braking in wet weather under those conditions. But on my sports bike, or race bike, no thanks. Of course if I'm on a 200 HP Moto GP bike then I would want TC.
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Lately been working on the body positioning, on my own riding. We fix guys positions on the bike all the time, with the steering drill, lean bike, and all of Level 3.
The best set up for me personally would be Stomp Grip and rearsets, can really lock in with them, and if I were racing, that would be the way I would go.
Not possible on all our schools bikes, but we do have Tech Spec, helps for sure.
What I tried this last weekend at Vegas was a little more tension through my lower body, hips and legs (just a little)which supported me better on the bike, and overall took less work (my legs weren't worn out after 2 days on the track, first time in 2 months).
This may not fully describe it, I'm still playing with it, not 100% sure what I did yet.
The problem for me had been very short legs, long torso, hard to hang off and hold onto the bike with the legs only.
31 years later, still learning this stuff, what a hoot.
Cobie, I have short legs so I need all the help I can get. I have rear sets and stomp grip on my bike and I love the combo. Plus I have my rear sets adjusted all the way up, this gives me more ground clearance plus makes it easier to lock into the tank. I've also been doing tons of exercises to strenthen my middle core. It all seems to help. I'll be taking level 3 & 4 at Sears Point on March 16th & 17th. I'm hoping to get a lot of help on my body positioning.
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How do you know that you just nailed it! You know what I mean, just after completing a turn you get that feeling like, hey that was pretty good!
What tells you that you got the turn right?
To me it almost feels like it was in slow motion....The entrance looked huge and the exit was effortless. That's why I think the eyes are the most important thing to work on in my riding.
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Here's a video that was posted in "Going to Infineon" section that will show examples of both throttle control and mistakes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU2__O67How
First you can "listen to the throttle control" of an AMA racer going through both chicanes and esses at Sears Point. Also in the second lap you can see the consequences of running wide (T-7) where the racer loses touch with the pack and can't make it up.
Going wide in 7 is easy to do. Going up the drag strip after turn 6 is the fastest part of the track. I pass a lot of guys on the inside of 7 because they make that mistake. It's the bus stop that drizes me crazy. So if someone knows the right line there, please let me know.
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Some bikes are geared too high from the factory so they can pass the drive by sound requirements. That is the case on most Ducati's. The first thing most Ducati riders do is go down one tooth on the front,(with the exception of the 1098). I race a 749r and it was geared too high for 3 turns at Sears and 4 turns at Thunderhill. My bike has a flat spot in the power band around 7000 rpm, so I like to be at 7500-8000 when I start to power out of the turns. Because my bike is a twin downshifting one gear would put me too close to red line, (11,000 rpm). So I went one tooth down on the front and two teeth up on the back. At the tracks I ride there is no way I could hit red line in 6th on the straights, (Sears Point doesn't really have a straight).
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are you faster following trying to catch someone or being up front???.....follow or leader???
I like being in front. If there is a rider in front it distracts me from where I like to brake, turn, drive, etc. In the long sweepers all I'm thinking about is whether I'm going to pass him on the outsdie or wait 'till he drifts out and take an inside line to pass. If a faster rider passes me, all I think about is trying to keep up, instead of thinking about my riding, and that doesn't help me get faster. The only time I don't mind being in back is when a friend who I know is faster wants to show me some better lines through some turns, so we purposely go out to pratice those lines.
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just wondering if you put the same rider on a fully prepped race bike and on a bone stock version what the difference would be on a typical laptime.....say that rider does 2 minutes 6 seconds a lap on the race bike what would he run on the stock bike??? 5 seconds??10?20?
I just looked up the times at Sears Point for AFM racing. Open Superbike: 1:40, Open Production: 1:43, this was for the same rider. The production class isn't "bone stcok", you can have an after market exhaust and ECU and run DOT race tires. I think the tires have more to do with lap times then the exhaust at Sears Point, but there isn't anyone racing with street tires so that is just my opinion.
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I agree, these corners would be good candidates for trail braking. In turn three your kinda leaned over going in there and it is closely followed by another corner. Turn nine is closely followed by another corner as well.
I'm not sure if maybe it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but to me any corner that leads into another corner can be a good candidate for trail braking. Mostly because I feel that getting into such corners fast is more important then getting a drive our of them or getting on the gas super early. As always there are exceptions, but it works for me as a rule of thumb.
If a corner is followed by a straight you need to think about your exit speed more. In these corners trail braking probably isn't such a good idea.
Like at Willow Springs, trailing the brake into turn three works OK, but I wouldn't trail brake into turn one.
Very long late apex decreasing radius turns are what comes to mind for single turns.
C
WOW, I just read all 5 pages on this trail braking tread. Can't believe it started 1 1/2 years ago!! Could it be that if you put a top Moto GP racer on the track by himself and said go run some fast laps, that the amount of trail braking would be a lot less then if it was a race situation? Adrenalin and competitiveness makes you push a lot harder, sometimes too hard into corners, when you have to trail brake. That doesn't mean it's the fastest way around the track it just means it was the only way to get the job done at that moment. To use Keith's saw/house building comment from a few pages ago. Lets say I'm building a house, and I'm up on the roof, and I need to cut one 2 x 4. My choices are go down to the truck, plug in the extention cord, haul it up on the roof, plug in my saw then cut the board. Or I could just use the hand saw that is on the roof and is available. The power saw is faster, except when it's not. To me the quick turn and trail braking are just tools that should be used when the time is right, not all the time or none of the time. Just my 2 cents.
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I would even pop for "pay per view" to see this race! It would have to be a promoters dream come true!......and throw in Mat Mladin please!!!
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First off, high octane fuel will do NOTHING for performance. High octane fuel is only meant to resist detonation in high compression motors. So unless you have milled your head or have different pistons you actually want to run the lowest octane fuel you can for your bike. Low octane fuel is more volatile and will produce more power. As long as the engine doesn't ping or knock on a lower octane fuel.
Real race gas is a whole other story. Fuel like VP MR9 or Ultimate 4.2 will produce more power. To get the most out of race fuels like this you should map the bike for it as they tend to make a bike run lean. These fuels produce more power because they are oxygenated, not because of the octane rating.
My ZX10 makes about 5 more HP on race gas then it does on pump gas, but it was mapped for race gas. If you mapped it for each type of fuel the difference would probably be less, maybe 3hp. On a typical race weekend I run pump gas in practice and race fuel durring the race.
The things is on a 600 you MIGHT get 2-3 more hp out of ultimate 4.3 or maybe as much as 5hp out of the more expensive stuff like MR9.
Is 2 hp really going to make a difference? Well, if your racing at the front maybe...
I'm currently having a Nemesis ECU installed in my Bike,(Ducati 749r). This ECU has the capability to have multiple maps installed that can be switched at the starter button. One map will be for pump gas and another will be for oxygenated race gas. The numbers I have heard are about 5 more HP on race gas. Does that make a difference? Only when I'm on the straights and the guy next to me is on a Susuki 750(750 SB) or a 1098 (open twin) classes........
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I thought that was one of the primary differences between twins and 4's. I know on my wifes 650 I have power just about bottom to top. On mine, I need to be at 9,000 rpm's. I want a Triumph 675.
Hubbard;
The Desmosedici that Stuman is riding in that shot is an L-4, not a twin. Ducati realized that if they were to build a MotoGP Twin it would need to spin at over 17K so they married two L-Twins together...if I got that story correctly.
Kevin
That's correct, it's a L4, but it still has gobs of low end........I've been told.
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the problem is the nut connecting the seat to the steering yoke.
You might be on to something with that one. That nut is a real ###### to tighten correctly.
I agree! This sounds more like a perceived problem rather then a real one. When my front end pushes on any particular corner I either find a different line, use a different entry speed, hang off the bike more/lean less, put more weight on the front end or all of the above on the next lap at that corner. What ever you do, DO NOT LOOK AT THE FRONT WHEEL while turning. Unless of course you want to get up close and personal with the ground.
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King Kenny is still one of my favorites. He did it in multiple disciplines, and he was always looking at the sport from a view of better show, expand, train new riders, etc.. But sticking with his riding:
I watched him at Laguna (not sure what year it was) wheelie past the then current US Formula 1 champ Mike Baldwin, going into turn 9 at Laguna (now turn 11). What made this special was that Mike was on the brakes.
Kenny wouldn't just check out and smoke these guys either, he'd stay around for a while and make it a show, it was great to watch.
So, who's your favorite and why?
Cobie
No dought King Kenny was fun to watch! But my favorite is Dick Mann. He would road race, flat track AND ride motocross.....all on a Triumph!! I watched him race the Sacrameno Mile with a broken foot! Then I watch him race against Roger DeCoster at Carnagie MotoCross, on a Triumph single. He got smoked, but the sound of that thumper going around a motocross track was way cool!!.
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OK, we talked about this a little before, but it got a little off the subject, so lets take another look at this. What conditioning, training, exercises, and even diet have you found has worked well for agressive riding?
It would also be good if any of the girls would post what has helped them.
CF
I go to the gym 3 to 4 times a week. I do 30-40 minutes of cardio, either on the bike or jogging on the tred mill. I do about 60-90 crunchs on the exersize ball. Then I mix up my weight training, making sure to give my muscles at least one week to recoupe before doing the same set of exersises. I do light weights and lots of reps,( 3 or 4 sets of 25 reps) to build endurance and strength. I think it is very important to focus on the core muscles of the body, thighs, hips, stomach, back and chest. I also do a lot of reps for my tricepts, I think these muscles are very important for counter steering and holding your body during hard braking. For dieting I have found that keeping a journal of what you eat, ( get a book to look up the food calories), helps a lot. I started this because my daughter graduated in Sept from SF State with a degree in nutrition and she told me to start doing it. I figured, hey, I spent all that money on her college, I may as well listen to her. I have been losing about 3-4 lbs per month. It takes burning about 3500 callories more then you bring in to lose 1 lb. Also I have started eating 5 small meals per day rather then 2 or 3 big ones. This has helped me the most. My energy level is way up, do to my blood sugar staying at a more even level all day,(I've been told). At the track, I make sure I eat a bannana between breakfast and lunch, and an apple a couple of hours after lunch. Also I'm 53 years old, so I think the older you get the more important this becomes.
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OK, here's the question: What's the best handling bike you have ever ridden (we'll stick to road bikes for this), and then why? I'm interested to see what you come up with.
Cobie
Of course this is a very subjective question. I had a chance to ride the new Buells at a Buell sponsored track day at Sear Point a few weeks ago. Other then the bad suspension and under powered motors they are great bikes.........I'll not be selling my Ducati 749r anytime soon. Set up in the 23.5 degree rake with the 97mm trail front end set up, it is by far the best handling bike I have ever been on, even better then the 999s Ducati I used to ride.
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OK, I'm not trying to stir up another trail braking discussion here
Let's take the very straight forward example of a 90 degree constant radius corner that is pretty much flat (no camber positive or negative). This corner is preceded by a long straight and followed by a straight as well. I'm sure there is a corner sorta like this on most of the tracks we all ride. If not exactly like is picture a corner that is as close to the preceding description as you can get. My local examples would be turn 1 at Willow Springs (Although it has some camber) or turn 1 or the last turn at Buttonwillow. Turn one at Sears is pretty close as is turn 10 at The Streets of Willow.
OK so in this type of corner, when do you release the brake?
Well before the corner?
At the turn point?
Just after the turn point?
At the Apex?
???????
I'm asking you to think about a corner like this that you ride on a somewhat regular basis and describe what you actually do now. I'm not asking a theoretical question about what is the best way to brake for this corner. I want to know what you do today.
Do you think that the way you release the brake now is best?
Why or why not?
OK, Turn one at Sears,(AMA turn 1, yes?): Come around turn 11 as tight as possible,(that means slow) to get a good drive early, tuck in and haul a.. to the start/finish line, sit up and brake hard....as soon as I see the paint at the apex I release the brakes, seam to me there is a milasecond before I turn in. Then I point the bike for the painted ripple strip and open it up. It happens very quickly.
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Ok thanks for the replies. So no one knows how to desribe the feeling? I'm very, very afraid to lean any more in the rain.. I want to go further... but am afraid of getting to the angle the wheels will just slip away at. Is it noticeable, do the wheels gradually slide out? Does the steering get very light? Does the bike weave about? Does it simply fall down very sharply after getting to that point? These are the real life examples I'd like to know.... If anyone can describe what I'm talking about that would be great! Even when not on the track, in a small car park like on the video i posted... I can not even imagine scraping my pegs... Am just locked at one very shallow angle that i can't seem to get past. If I knew what kind of signs to look out for i'm sure i'd be willing to crank it over more. I also fear that on the road it may get me into much trouble if i can't make myself lean over more to avoid an unexpected obstacle or coming into a radius tightening corner.
All of the above, dude.
Every "feeling" you mentioned is possible. Like Cobie said, it depends on the conditions. Some tracks are quite grippy when wet and some are not. The same conditions exist on the street. Just like learning a track, it is a good idea to learn the roads you regularly ride. Where is the tarmac fresh and grippy, where is it old, worn and slippery? Intersections are the worst as cars and trucks sit and idle at red lights leaking puddles of slip juice onto the road. They can be pretty slippery even when it is dry. So, there isn't any one single answer to your question for wet weather riding. Sometimes you will get lots of clear warning. Sometimes your first clue is the sound of scraping bodywork. That said, you'll need to start trusting your tires, in general, sooner or later. Like you said, if you can't make yourself lean over, you won't be able to turn. Make sure you have fresh rubber and your machine is certified in good working order. Then... just do it.
One note about rain riding: the most dangerous time is when it first starts to rain and the oils and grime in the road float to the surface. In a hard rain, they will be washed away after a short time. In a light rain, they might not go anywhere. So, the most slippery time is just after it begins to rain. And a hard rain is better than a light rain for traction. (Sorta counter-intuitive.) In any case, the best thing you can do is to have fresh rubber with deep grooves for standing water.
A last word of advice: be smooth in rain. Like a car in the snow. Nothing sudden. Gradually increase lean angle to find the limit and mind the rules of throttle control and weight balance. Don't overload front or rear. No hard gas. Be easy on the brakes. Use a little rear brake in the rain. Be mild and be smooth.
And get a copy of Twist of the Wrist if you don't have one. It will save your life.
Good luck,
r
All of the above and avoid painted surfaces. That includes the street and the track, such as cross walks and center lines and stay off the paint in the corners of the track.
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Chopperbill, there are some corners that don't require quick flicks. Could that be it?
And I was on a corner this weekend, and besides Kane Lasky (has ridden AMA) some of those riders were just awesome to watch dipping it in. Definite difference between them and the slower racers. They're the ones who win.
That could be it. I've changed my approach into that turn and it has helped me be smoother and back on the gas quicker. But this guy generally didn't seem to like the quick turn.
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One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.
1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.
I'd like to add to your list: Discipline
And it needs to be higher on the list. Probably #2 or 3. Practicing without discipline is just running last.
And I think good instruction isn't as good as it would be if the rider isn't disciplined enough to keep working on what they were taught, even if it doesn't seem to be working. There have been a couple of things that people have told me that I just didn't think were helping me, but there was one lap each time that the lightbulb came on, and it was working. If I would have given up I wouldn't have shaved 12 seconds off average laptime without staying disciplined.
And I've been thinking about this part of the day, and I was going to say that desire, or "want" is probably #1. When my wife said she wanted a motorcycle I tried to talk her out of it to make sure she really wanted one, and she kept insisting. She's had some medical issues, but she'll probably be on the track by the end of next year.
Great list Chopperbill.
I agree, disipline should be in there around #2 or #3. Bad practice will just reinforce bad habits.
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One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.
1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.
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In TOTW2, chapter 15 talks about the steering rate 1 being the slowest, 10 being the fastest. Eddie Lawson, Wayne Rainey and Doug Chandler are at 10,
My question to everyone is where do you rate yourself in this?
For me, before I started practicing the CSS techniques at the beginning of this year I would have rated myself about 4-5 but I think now that should have been 2-3, I now rate myself after loads of practice at what I believe to be a true 6 and to me that feels lightning fast! To acheave this I use a late turn point combined with the 2 step drill,
So guys be honest and let us know where in the chart you rate yourself, include hints and tips to getting it up to 10!
If 3 is the average street rider, and based on the fastest and slowest at the track, I would say I'm about a 5-6. Although one of the track day instructors found me after a session and told me I was turning in too quickly (on turn 2 at Infineon) and that I would crash if I kept doing it.???? When I told him I had just gotten back from Cal SB school, his comment has "well that explains it, everyone who comes back from that school trys to turn in way too quickly". I know a lot of people high side on turn two, so maybe he was trying to help, but it seam to me that high siding is a throttle control issue not a turn in issue. Am I wrong about that?
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So I don't want to bring up fitness again (that was a mess), but along those lines I have a question. I was told a couple of weeks ago that 7 lb= 1hp. I was on a corner today, and it crossed my mind when I was watching this guy have a go. He's a very large man, and is silky smooth, but he's grossly overweight, and can't keep up with groups of riders who have the same bikes, and aren't as good, but they weigh 100-150 lb less. Does anyone know if the lb/hp ratio is right?
I read that Troy Bayliss is 5'9" 150#. He says sometimes he gets down to 145#, but rides better at 150#. When I went to Superbike School in October I was 198#, (I'm 5'9"), I have been working out and have cut out a lot of fatty foods in my diet and have gotten down to 182#. I can feel the difference already. My goal is 175# by spring. So if the 7#=1HP is right that would be equal to 3 HP for me. WOW that is a lot cheaper then Carbon Fiber or Titanium parts!!
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I was running Pirelli DOT, Mediums. I bought a set of Dunlops DOT Race,(soft/front & soft-medium/rear) from the Superbike school. I did a track day,(at Thunderhill) last Saturday on the Pirelli's then switched to the Dunlops on Sunday. The tire guy at the track was a Pirelli dealer so he told me my bike would be set up completly wrong for the Dunlop tires and said that hey would over work my suspension. so I took two turns out of the ride height on the rear and increased the rebound damping on both front and rear. The Dunlops felt way better to me. Better holding power coming out of the turns, and the suspension seemed to work better. I'm going to Infenion this Saturday and Sunday, I'll report back what I think on Monday. By the way as soon as I'm finished with this post I'm signing up for level 3 & 4 for Infineon in March!
There are a few guys that have use both tires, and the normal comment is the Pirellie's are much softer, and that requires different suspension settings (as you are finding out).
Not familiar with your ride height adjuster, but for sure it was ride height, not preload?
Maybe Stuman will chime in, pretty sure he has run both tires.
CF
I only changed the ride height because Thill is a faster,(more straights/less turns) then Sears Point where I had been running. The damping I have been playing with to get the right setting, (also based on the track). The tire change just added one more dimension to the equation. That's what I love about this sport. I'm a rookie at it, and it seems like there is ALWAYS something new to learn!
Stoner In Question For '09
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
WOW, that's pretty harsh! I think having one Moto GP Championship is proving yourself enough. Lets face it he is racing with one of the all time greats,(Rossi). I just read 5 minutes ago that he has the fastest lap times,(ahead of Rossi) at Qatar.