Chad Wille
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Posts posted by Chad Wille
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I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here. My only advice with regard to the throttle in a double apex corner is that your throttle control should be pretty much as if it was two corners. Roll off, turn in for the first part of the turn, roll back on through the first part of the turn, then roll off and turn in for the second part of the turn, then roll on through the second part of the turn.
Cobie, I've tried this on the double apex at my track and it can be done but seems like a lot of business for no gain. Twist 2, page 19 has a pretty good diagram of what my corner looks like. It seems to me that there is no reason to slow down for Turnpoint 1 since the corner can be set up to be pretty loose, almost a sweeper. If I trail brake and use throttle rule #1 for turnpoint #2 does that make sense? Anything wrong with this?
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I think traction control can be helpful to a low/intermediate level rider, because it would make sense to me that a more inexperienced rider is more likely to make the sort of error (and have less experience with how to handle it) that traction control can help with.
Apparently, guys like Matt Mladin and Niel Hodgson don't think that TC has made racing easier for them - but then again, they're getting paid to find those tenths and hundreds that we loose every other second ;-)
Andy Ibbott told about him almost binning the S1000RR first time he was on track with it, because the ABS system wouldn't let him brake anywhere near the limits of traction on dry pavement, but in rain mode, coming up to a corner.
Kai
I also read the bit by Andy Ibbott and the brakes on the s1000rr. Though it confused me because I'm wondering why, and where, a skilled rider would ever get on the brakes that hard. I've been using less brake and not charging the corners to keep my entry speeds up as discussed in "Twist II." Of course, I'm a low time track day rider so don't know if the top guys use a huge amount of brake or not. People at my track talk about how great their brakes are but if you increase your corner entry speeds do you need monster brakes? In other words, as the speed differential from straightaway to corner entry speed lessens, what's the point of excessive braking? So that you can brake later? If that's important why does every source say that you make virtually no gains charging the corner and huge gains through and exiting the corner properly? Confusing.......
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Traction control can help a rider be more proficient. It gives you a good gauge as to what your doing with the throttle in the corner. If you engage the TC, then you were asking for more power than what the tire could handle at the lean angle, etc. So now you have some measure of "where the tire is at". I also think that it allows riders to explore getting on the gas harder than there comfort zone - which they may find was too comfortable. I've see students hit a wall until we told them to "pin it" (half jokingly of course).
And it really does save a percentage of low-sides and high-sides. I've seen a student adding lean and throttle to the point the TC kicks in, and make it through the corner. Same scenario different bike (like the Kawi), he would have been on the ground.
Best.
Pete,
Excellent information, thank you. I've been track riding for two years but my efforts to increase pace at some points is stifled by my lack of knowledge - and fear - of how far I can go with the tires. To have electronics tell me where I am with the limits is exactly what I hoped TC could do. If it also helps prevent "grounding", all the better for me and the bike. If CSS has seen it work with students in action on the track, that's a pretty high recommendation. Thanks.
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Dear Superbike Riders,
I have something weird that happens on corner entrances--this is on the street, riding my 650cc Burgman with an automatic clutch, but I have felt the same things on my 1200. This is tough to describe, but I'll do my best. Here goes.
- I feel confident on the bike when I enter a turn dragging a little front brake--trail braking.
- I feel good on the bike when I've set my speed BEFORE my turn point, and I enter the turn with maintenance throttle already on (NOT accelerating--just holding the throttle steady).
- I feel scared and tippy when I enter a corner off the throttle and off the brakes. The bike feels more like it is falling over than tipping in under my control. I'm also afraid of the JOLT I'll get when I try to get back on the throttle. This jolt is really just a little jerk, and I'm trying hard to be smooth, but that drive-line-lash/off-on-throttle thing is very uncomfortable. It doesn't help that I try to get back on the throttle to arrest my lean, so the jolt happens just as I'm at my lowest lean angle. Strangely enough, I seem to have better throttle control when I'm easing off the brake and onto the gas. (I wonder if the turning forces mask the feelings of acceleration.)
Sometimes I think this happens when I'm just turning in too darned slowly, or when my eyes are too close to the front tire (also causing the entrance speed to be very slow), but even when I try to get it right, entering the turn off the throttle and the brakes feels uncomfortable.
Am I doing it wrong?
Do I HAVE to be off brakes and throttle to make a good entrance (certainly not necessary at the posted speed limit)?
Does anyone else get this scary "falling in" feeling?
Maybe you already got the right answers but I had a 1986 Honda that felt exactly like this. The previous owner sold the bike to me because of it. Fine up to a certain angle of lean, so most of the time you never encountered it when lightly street riding, but take a tight corner at any speed or throttle and sometimes the front just fell into a hole. We poured over the problem trying to think and do everything we could. In the end it was.........tire pressure. Check your front tire pressure regularly and with outside temperature changes. We were down about 12 lbs. Good luck.
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I've read all the magazine reporters stories about traction control in the last few years, and while everybody is hinting that it is a "safety net" that has advantages I notice that I've never read a bold statement such as; "Traction control will prevent high sides," or "Traction control will allow you to learn the limits of traction on the track with far less risk of injury." Are magazine testers just shoveling hyperbole about the industry's latest new thing? Or is TC a real blessing? Should a low/intermediate level track rider buy a TC bike in order to prevent smearing himself along the pavement? Is it a viable method to learn how to ride better and to higher limits without the danger of getting hurt by the problems which TC can prevent? (I realize there are things it doesn't prevent) Or do you need to learn every type of slide and push, up to and maybe including lowsides and highsides to become a proficient rider? Is TC good for race level riders but largely unnecessary for the average track day rider? I'd like to hear from both inexperienced and experienced riders who've ridden TC on the track and what their impressions are. Thanks!
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A track to oneself, nice!
What is the name of that track? And what kind of condition is it in?
Another question: as you have ""flyer in you name, are you a pilot?
CF
Cobie,
Mid America Motoplex is a completely flat track with good surface everywhere. Runoffs are mostly level grass which is fine unless thunderstorms wet it down in which case you'll fall if you go off. They run cars as well, and if you ride it the day after a car race you find incredible traction because of all the rubber on the track. Very noticeable. Probably a bit boring compared to some tracks but 75 miles away is close and easy out here and the mood is midwest relaxed. Yup, I'm a lifelong pilot, airplanes, helicopters, gliders, and balloons. I make my living building and restoring antique airplanes and parts, and flew commercially for years in Oregon, Washington, Alaska and California. I still visit California in the winter. I wish you had your schools then!
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Hi Flyerguy,
Welcome, glad you like the content.
What do you ride, where, chime in and give us some info!
Best,
Cobie
Cobie,
I'm from Iowa now, but originally West Coast. I wonder how many can say they started out motorcycle riding on a Whizzer? Mine was a 1947 model bought from my older brother in 1968 and you may laugh but it was FAST! Nothing like the new ones. It could do 50 and had no brakes to speak of. We ran alongside pushing to start it, easier than pedaling. Two years later I bought a real bike, a 1969 Honda CB350 which was by far the biggest bike in the High School parking lot in 1971. I've owned several Hondas since. Plus Suzuki, BMW, Yamaha, Indian, and Aprilia, they're all great.
Iowa is straight north-south/east-west roads. You're never lost, just sidestepped from your destination. The roads are boring but the traffic is nill. And since we have thousands of miles of rural gravel roads there's a little more challenge than it seems. We have a track in Glenwood, Iowa, just a few minutes out of Omaha for the curves. But no real riding schools here. A good local program is an unstructured Monday afternoon track day every 2 weeks. About 15-25 guys show up and since not everyone is riding all at once, you often have the track mostly to yourself.
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Hello. I'm new to the forum, but not to motorcycling. I'm 56 and have been riding for 42 years. Time flies...... Only the last 2 years have been on the track with a dedicated Yamaha YZF-R6 but the technology and skill of track riding is intoxicating. I'm hoping to attend the Superbike school in 2011 as I've gone as far as I dare on my own. Nothing too scary but not much progress lately either! There is a lot of fine information on this forum and I'm glad people contribute.
Heavy Braking
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
When I switched from my Yamaha R6 to a Ducati with forged lightweight wheels I couldn't believe the difference in braking. The bikes weigh within 4 lbs of each other but the reduction of unsprung weight on braking was startling. From a 140 mph straight the bike slows effortlessly quick and I can brake much later than in previous 3 years of track riding. If I could afford carbon wheels I'd buy them as the reduction in wheel weight makes a monster difference in bringing speed down very quickly.