Woody

Racer. You're alright, don't change mate. (bloody piss head Kiwi...)

Yeah I'm still kind of here. The truth is I hate it when explanations start involving complicated physics. I am a man of very little brain and get easily confused. I actually convinced myself with the wall theory. Much of this was pretty much a moot point anyway, as we all appreciate that by far the best way to exit a corner is 'on the gas'. It's just nice to understand some of the detail. As for the trike, here's me exiting Siberia at PI... http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mysterybu...2&.dnm=6936.jpg Ride :-)

Rather yours than mine, mate. Fosters! I feel like spitting! Wish I could mate, booked for Tassie instead though. You live in NZ, or just visiting? I'm planning a trek over there next summer for a couple of months (so long as I can sort out some shipping for the ... er, trike). Speights sounds good, mate. ;-)

Braking or engine braking are a little different as these require positive inputs from the rider, inputs that we have all done and experienced the effects of. I wouldn't have thought that many people would have much experience of the effects of keeping a constant throttle from a straight to a corner (aside from gentle bumbling, which doesn't really count), which is why this is something that is a little harder to grasp... I think I know what you are trying to say. I'll have a go (and probably fail) at explaining it a little more plainly. Assuming a constant throttle and also assuming that the f/r weight distribution moved forwards whilst cornering, then taking this to the extreme, if we could make the corner sufficiently tight enough it should be theoretically possible to result in 100% of the motorcycle's weight over the front wheel (ignoring tyre limitations etc), at which point the motorcycle would stop. The equivalent of running into a wall, (which is after all just a corner with an infinitely small radius). A trike...

This is what I don't quite understand myself. Assuming a constant throttle, I don't understand why the weight distribution would change whether cornering or running in a straight line. We're all happy that the bike would slow when you start cornering, but what I still don't quite 'get' is why this results in a change to the f/r weight distribution (the explanation that this occurs simply because the bike is slowing is a little too simplistic I am afraid and doesn't really explain why). My thought is that the energy spent (that slows the bike) when cornering passes through both tyres toward the outside of the corner. Why would this result in a change in the f/r weight distribution? This is all pretty much academic of course and I only want to know for interest and to try and understand what is going on. One thing is certain, the practical stuff is far more fun than the theory...

Not sure I fully understand this bit or why the weight is biased more towards the front, but I suppose I can live with not understanding everything. The most important thing is I understand why I need to be on the gas once the bike is turned.

Isn't 'coasting', defined as riding with the clutch pulled in (or not in gear)? Yeah, I understand that the bike will slow down anyway, but when coasting (using my definition above) this slowing occurs by external influences (wind & rolling resistance mainly - ie, not by any input from the rider or engine). Because of this, the 'whole bike' slows at the same rate which means that there is no weight transfer front or rear. For weight transfer to occur you'd need to brake or accelerate the wheels either by the engine (rolling on or off the gas) or pulling on the brake lever, which as you mentioned (quite rightly) in your reply would cause a weight transfer and affect the stability of the bike. Attempting to summarise, what I am saying is by pulling in the clutch and coasting, relying on wind/ rolling resistance to slow the bike won't cause a weight transfer (well, not a significant one anyway - ignoring minor resistance from the drivetrain), but slowing one part of the bike (the wheel) will. Make any sense? [edit] Thinking a little more though, when coasting the wind resistance will only slow the parts of the bike it hits (the front). The rear of the bike will still try to continue on at the same rate which will inevitably cause the weight to shift forwards. The only way to counteract this would be to have a little bit of gas to keep the speed of the bike constant. This keeps the weight distribution the same as if the bike was at rest. Bring a corner into the equation and with the same amount of gas the bike will slow down, purely because of the cornering forces. The key here is that the f/r weight distribution won't change, even though the bike is slowing, as the slowing forces are now being transmitted toward the outside of the corner, through the wheels and tyres...

My understanding is this (corrections welcome :-) ): If you coast into a corner the bike will naturally slow down, purely as a result of cornering. In this case the f/r weight distribution would be as if the bike was at rest as 'you' are not doing anything to move it to the front or rear. To retain a constant speed around the corner you need to apply a little throttle to counteract the cornering forces, this shifts the weight a little to the rear tyre as you are now accelerating the bike. More throttle and you will start to speed up, shifting even more weight to the rear. 60/40 applies at the point of maximum lean (it isn't the ideal, but is a good rule of thumb to get an idea of what you are trying to achieve), after which point you should be gradually applying more and more throttle as you pick the bike up out of the corner. Yes?

Everybody starts at level 1. The focus of Keith's schools are more about cornering technique than aiming for fast lap times (the latter comes as a natural by-product of the first) and these techniques are taught in a certain order (partly no doubt because it is easier to teach a set curriculum, but also because the techniques do get more advanced, and therefore more difficult, the further through the course you get). Level 1 gives the basic grounding for the rest of the course. Like any training school, you only get out of it what you put in, but having read his books and attended the (soon to be rebranded) Australian Superbike School I can definitely recommend Keith's methods.

Sorry, can't seem to upload photos (maybe too few posts?). Follow the link below: http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mysterybu...hdIq3DBO5QRnFri Attended last Saturday and had a fantastic time. I have been reading Keith?s books and have been practising his techniques for a few years now, so there wasn?t any ?new? information to be gleaned by attending the cornering school, but I expected this and this wasn?t the point of my deciding to attend. There really is no substitute for practical training and the enforced program of concentrating on one technique at a time, whilst removing many other attention grabbers (traffic, road conditions, turn-in points, etc...) was for me, the whole point of the school. I found that I was happy to practice everything without any additional on-track assistance, although it was great to have an instructor go past and show the thumbs up signal (I mean, who wouldn?t like that?). Gone was the haphazard, randomness of trying to apply everything that I had read about and for the first time I really experienced the differences that some of the techniques actually made to my riding. It also enabled me to at last nail my fast turn-in and it was a pretty special feeling to finally hit the apex at MG. Loved it. Steve Brouggy is an exceptional communicator and explains everything brilliantly. Yeah, I?ll be back for level 2, although perhaps on one of the school Triumphs next time (see below). The BIG question, am I a better rider because of attending the superbike school? Yes, I think so. I don?t think that there are any huge improvements in my riding, but I have some more knowledge which will certainly give me more confidence in my riding. I still find myself coming off the throttle when running wide going around corners, but now I have some more information to throw at my body to convince it that getting on the throttle is the right thing to do. For instance, I had quite a few problems with turn 2 (southern loop). This is a decreasing radius corner that has two turn points. You need to enter the turn a little slower than you would expect so that you can tip it in a second time as the turn tightens and drops down the hill on the exit. This second turn point was a problem for me, as I was always wary of the ground clearance on my BM and was scared of grounding out the engine. This [ground clearance] has always been my main fear with the BM, but with a little more track time to find exactly where the limits are with the bike (where the footpegs start to grind), if I also concentrate on turning the bike quicker for my current entry speed, I am confident that I will be able to find a solution that works. So how did the BM perform. Pretty well it must be said (although the poor boxer did start to shake itself apart at one point as the screws started coming out of my fuel cap!). I have been saying since I bought it that the R1100S is a surprisingly quick motorcycle and it certainly proved to be so on the track. Running around in fourth created problems though. Coming around turn 11 toward turn 12, the old thumper kept hitting the rev-limiter and I am sorry Steve/ Keith, but I am afraid to say that I often opted to take turn 12 in 5th in preference to losing some speed on the approach to turn 12, so that I could drive all the way through onto the main straight. It?s a speed thing! Ground clearance also became a bit of an issue by the third session and on a few occasions the footpegs went down and although these have some give in them, the engine doesn?t follow too far behind and that has a little less give! It didn?t really spoil the day, but it did play on my mind quite a lot. Either I need to hang off a lot more, or try another bike (a school Triumph, perhaps).. In summary, now saving for a ride day, before attending level two. Brilliant, thanks guys!

About to attend my first cornering school, at Philliip Island, Australia on the 29th and after reading through this forum I can't wait! I'll let you all know how I get on. Fantastic forum, by the way. Best source of cornering advice on the web.