dbtriple
-
Posts
57 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by dbtriple
-
-
G'day,
Returning from world superbikes at Phillip Island on Monday, I had 900km to get home, and it was raining with some great roads (in the dry!) ahead of me. But you know the rain.....takes the edge off! So I wasn't enjoying it much but using several techniques helped.
1 - Relax.
2 - Sit the bike up onto the fat part of the tyre by using better body position.
3 - And most crucially - the 3 step technique. By focusing more thoroughly on turn in, mid point and vanishing point, it just became so much easier, and despite my soaked gear, foggy visor and associated rain like dramas, the ride was turned from an ordeal into something resembling a challenge!
Yes it was wet for all but 50km of that ride. There's always a sting at the Island - if you escape the rain at the track and campground, you WILL pay the penalty on the ride home. But the CSS techniques showed theie mettle once again.
db
-
Hey Stuman,
for me the best thing which made so much else that I had learned click in was the hook turn. It gave me the tools to tighten the line in an easy way, which then allowed me to relax so much more, encouraged me to concentrate on my turn points and crack the throttle on, since I no longer was concerned about running wide so much! This applies to both track and road riding.
That's the brief version anyway.
db
-
I think I'd like to see the 125cc class replaced with 250cc four strokes. Kawasaki already has one and from what I've seen they can get around 50hp out of it. Once you get a factory team on that engine that has much better materials available they can probably boost that to 60 or 70hp. It would be a blast riding such a light motorcycle around.
Khb you seem to understand the math and physics involved to know the limits of these engines so I hate to disagree with you but I think they can get a lot more then 15,500rpm out of even a 1000cc engine. If F1 teams can get 18,000rpm out of a 2.4 liter, eight cylinder engine with reliable performance then the MotoGP teams shouldn't have a problem getting that out of 1 liter, four cylinder engines.
I am curious to see what switching back to 1000cc bikes will do for the racing. World Superbike on their 1000cc bikes had much closer and more exciting racing then MotoGP did last year.
Dave,
I think it gets down to peak piston speed. Eight cylinders with a relatively short stroke and wide cylinder diameter has less distance to travel to make a revolution, hence can do it at less speed. Whilst engine dimensions are important in formula one they have more flexibility in this area than motogp.
A 4 cylinder motogp bike has to have a relatively long stroke in comparison to its bore, as part of the packaging of the engine, and this is what eventually will limit the rpm, when combined with the new engine replacement limit of 5 per season. Formula 1 has these constraints also, but with the abovementioned limitations. If motogp had 8 cylinders then it could too, but the rules say 4. Take for example the v8 250cc honda gp bikes of yesteryear - if you throw enough cylinders at it the piston speeds can be kept under control, using less mass in the pistons reduces the g forces, and mad rpms were available even then. But today, even with much better metallurgy and design, there are still limits, at least currently, when you consider the rules.
There is a whole world of mad engineering in this, but suffice it to say that at 18000rpm a formula one motor piston, at the end of its stroke undergoes 17000g deceleration. So it is all pretty damaging to conrods to say the least.
Being unaware of the stroke and bore of the engines concerned it is difficult to speculate on what the precise motogp peak velocities would be, but someone, somewhere, probably in Japan or Italy, knows what the story is.
db
-
When getting measured for the leathers, the bloke (DBT leathers at Yagoona in Sydney) specifically mentions tailoring the leathers for the "crouched" riding position. Similar to the fit of keith's leathers from the photo, my leathers are sort of uncomfortable when walking around with them zipped up, especially across the chest, but on the bike when riding they are a perfect fit
What you just described is affectionally known as "the gorilla factor", since you get this slightly hunched over position while off the bike
I'm sure that plenty of guys can get a perfect fit off the rack, but for me it was custom made or nothing. Cost $2000 aus but money well spent - I wish I'd done it years ago instead of mucking about with 3 other sets of gear.I reckon it's worth getting measured in person - I see some leather places get you to send in your measurements on a form, but for the money you spend, you'd want to get it right - you'd be spewing if you sent in the wrong measurement and got poor fitting leathers for the money.......
I couldn't agree more. I had a set of leathers made-to-measure in 1998 (for road riding) and it was just fantastic. My current Dianese 1-piece that I use for track riding is a standard size 56, but it's 4" too short in the legs and 2" in the arms. I guess that at 6'6" and 190lbs, I'm just not measuring up to EU-standard sizes
After 12 seasons of riding the leather on the tailored suit is deteriorating and the colours doesn't look as nice, so just before Christmas I had measurements taken for both a 1-piece (for the track) and a 2-piece (for the road). Christmas 2010 should arrive around February 1st
I think the Dainese suits, without wishing to reinforce any ethnic stereotypes, may be suited to your shorter southern European style of person, that being a bit shorter in the arm and leg per waist size than your lanky northern european...
Roll on Feb 1 for you, nice going!
regards
db
-
Maybe to get other brands interested?
I would think to make it viable for others to be able to supply bikes, and competively so.
CF
Here's some food for thought......
You know what Jeremy Burgess said about all this? That it isn't going to return to the old back end sliding around type of thing that we had before.....because traction control would have led to this high corner speed path with either 1000cc or 800cc. The fast 4 are still going to be that much faster than all the rest.
And I also wonder what happened to the original reason for the switch, which was that the tyres couldn't cope with 340kmh plus speeds with any degree of safety, a la Shinya Nakano's rear delaminating at high speed. Given that the 800s have started nudging 340 on occasion, what will these latter day 1000s start to top out at?
Dorna are idiots, they've given us a couple of forgettable seasons of processions, and now have changed just about the only thing that will have no effect on competition. They should have got rid of traction control, given them as much fuel as they liked and put a restrictor plate on all air intakes for the class and then you would have seen some competition like the old days.
So there's my two bob again.
db
-
at the out side of turn one there was an oil spill and was afraid to touch it at lean.
the problem is getting the confidence to turn the bike quick.
that lap was 1:26 or 1:27 and i did 1:25 but the camera was full so i did not get it.
Dear Nobody,
Disregarding turn one, where it was obvious there was something distracting you, the only comment I'd make is that you seem to be off the throttle throughout most of the corners, until really late, then you give it a late hammering. This puts too much weight on the front tyre for too long, which isn't the go. Throttle control rule number one - once the throttle is cracked, it should be wound on evenly, smoothly and consistently until the end of the corner. as Keith says, repeat it to yourself 1000 or 2000 times! And the throttle should be cracked on as early as you can after turn in.
A couple of times you could kind of hear the throttle being cracked on, but not wound on in the right manner to get the necessary 60/40 rear/front weight balance.
Bike sounds awesome though!
BAck to turn one, you got a fair bit of bar shake under heavy braking, which could indicate that you have too much weight on the bars eg straight arms.....you could need to lock onto the tank a bit better and let the front end do its thing without too much interference. And relax those arms!
Hope this is helpful.
Good on ya mate!
db
-
dbtripple:Thanks a lot for the info.Did you do levels I and II on your bike or the school's? What is the long leg syndrome? I imagine it must be a lot easier for tall people to drag their knees due to the length of their legs?
I can't speak for dbtripple's version of "Long Leg Syndrome", but since I'm 6'6" as well, I can at least add my own perspective: when you have (very) long legs, you tend to have very sharp angles in the lower joints (knee, ankle) and the bike dimensions can make it difficult finding a good, stable body position on the bike. All this can also make it a bit awkward moving around on the bike and cause fatigue on longer drives.
WRT your own vs a school bike: I've done all my levels (1-4) on my own bikes. Yes, you may be a little bit more cautious about dropping the bike, but I think that's just a good thing since charging around the track will most likely lower your learning during the day(s).
Hope this helps,
Kai
Kai mate,
I can certainly relate to what you are saying regarding cramping up of the joints. Long rides, such as the 1000km trip to see the Motogp at Phillip Island can leave me somewaht crippled after a stint, and that is on the luxurious (by comparison to "real" sportsbikes) Speed triple.
Moving around on the bike......wasn't so bad. I mean I was fairly well prepared, but was sore for 3 days after, I'll try again next year at a track day after more thorough preparation and see. Ideally I'd like to try a proper sportsbike someday, but for now the dollars just aren't there.
db
-
dbtripple:Thanks a lot for the info.Did you do levels I and II on your bike or the school's? What is the long leg syndrome? I imagine it must be a lot easier for tall people to drag their knees due to the length of their legs?Also, on the track, did you ride in the "normal" upright position or the tucked-in position?I'm 5'8" and about 170lbs. I'm very comfortable on my Street Triple, but it seems like my legs are slightly too short for most sportbikes... I usually need to tip toe a little to reach the ground.Yea, I really love my Street Triple and plan on riding it for at least a few years. I think I will follow your suggestion and do Levels I and II on my bike, and then III on the school's bike since it seems like I may benefit more that way (also to have something to look forward to the first 2 days).
Dear JTNYC,
I have done all levels on my own bike. After all its the one I'll be riding!
Just being silly about having long legs (LLS). Level one and 2 I did in the "normal" position, starting a bit of body leaning in level 2. Level 3 has shown the importance of using the body position more fully. In fact level one and two would have been better this way too, but it wasn't happening for me!
Regarding getting the knee down...I was disappointed it didn't occur for me at level 3 but it's not the end of the world. It will come if I get a better lock on to the tank - the photos from the track day showed me I still have some work to do. I've seen plenty of photos of blokes with the knee down since I did level 3, and good on them, they've got the knee down - but they're all crossed up and the bike is leaning way too far, which is the reverse of what you want....its about standing the bike up to the fatter part of the tyre, to get better drive out. If it happens for me some day, it will be for the right reasons, not just for its own sake. I think the length of the legs is irrelevant, it puts the knee further into the air as well as further out, the angle of the leg is probably more critical than the length.
I am aware however that I may just be a pussy who is afraid of leaning it far enough!
cheers mate and go the mighty Triumphs. Actually, I was watching some Aussie BEARS racing the other night and one of the commentators said of Triumphs "they're like HArleys, you either love them or you hate them"! Well what a load of rubbish that is, they're nothing like harleys, they stop, go and handle for a start, and you don't need to be pretend to be hard as nails to own one either! I should complain to the biking gods I suppose, but you'll have to do.
cheers
db
-
Hey guys,
I had been trying to get a group of us Triumph riders to sign up, but everyone's been taking their sweet time deciding while there weren't too many spots left. I've been wanting to do take the class for a long time now, so I signed myself up today to make sure I got a spot!
A few questions:
1) I'm signed up for 3 single days: Level I on May 10, Level II on May 11, and Level III on May 14. Do you guys think that's too much in too little time to really maximize the experience? I'm a long time street rider, but have never been on the track.
2) I've signed up to use my own bike mainly because of the costs. I have a 2008 Triumph Street Triple, and I know there are people who use it on the track... but it's got a handle bar and is designed to be ridden in an upright position. I'm replacing the rear shock with one from the Daytona 675 (the sister, sport model) this winter, but the stock front forks weren't really intended for the track and have no adjustability. On the one hand, I think using my bike would really allow me to gain more confidence on it. But on the other hand, I'm not sure if I'll be missing out not learning on a real sportbike? Also, how much wear and tear would I be putting on my bike?
3) Anyone else going from the Tri-state area?
Looks like I've got lots of studying to do this winter! I really can't wait for the class!!!
Cheers,
JT
JT,
just done level 3 on my 2006 speed triple. My thoughts are that you could do level 1 and 2 on your bike, as there is not a great deal of hanging off the bike. I mean, this is the bike you'll be riding for a while presumably? I don't think you'll miss suspension adjustment too much on level 1 and 2, you'll be concentrating on other issues.
Level3 - up to you. I'm 6'6" tall and 240lbs, I've had my suspension uprated and it has a fully adjustable front end on it. If you're comfortable with your bike, be happy and use it for level 3. I have a few issues locking on to the bike due to LLS (long leg syndrome) but I'm working on it (locking on that is - I think the LLS is permanent - at least I hope it is!). Suspension adjustments can lead you astray, they shouldn't be the focus...throttling on can cure most of an evil handling bike's ills.
In TOTW2 it is mentioned that John Kocinski won a championship one season with no suspension adjustments to his bike between tracks. It was all about his throttle control making the bike stable, albeit from a pretty good initial set up.
So that's my two-bob worth. 1 and 2 on your bike, 3 if you want, if you fit the bike real good, don't blame the suspension, use the throttle to keep it in the sweet spot.
Happy Festivus
db
-
Level3......what can one say? Started the day having never hung a cheek off in anger, admitted as much freely to my coach Al, but then the transformation began.....the hook turn - you could ride your whole life and not jag one, but once you're told - whoa! In fact the first time it happened I was going too slow coming out of turn 4 (had yet to find the sweet spot) and did one....nearly turned sideways! Some control came after that and immediately noticed a far tighter line than ever achieved previously, of course with much greater corner speed!
The pivot/power steer.....I thought this one was a filler to make up the 5 topics for the day. How wrong I was! Immediately achieved far greater lean angle than previous - I suppose that the opposite, un-power-assisted hand had been resisting the countersteering attempts via my SRs and subconscious. Now that is the tool to overpower that evil opposite hand! At least that's how I read it for my case. Not long after scraped a footpeg for the first time (turn 12)and it wasn't a worry.
Knee to knee, hip flick.....I tried them but truthfully there were that many things changed and going on by this time I wouldn't claim to have mastered them, but I did them a couple of times and bloody hell it makes the transition from side to side a lot smoother and faster! The attack drill....well it was fruitful to say the least, and I think that this is going to be a major benefit on the road, those few degrees of entry angle change certainly have a profound effect on a set of corners.....
Never scraped the knee which was a hope, but looking at the photos on line, I think I have locking on issues which I will address when next I go to the track. Was really happy to outpace the guys doing level 2 on much madder bikes than my speed triple, in particular a 1098s which should really have hosed my bike in all respects. This proves the efficacy of the techniques contained in level 3 - at my last track day the only blokes in my group overtaking me were using hang off techniques - now I have joined them, it is a quantum leap.
On the downside....by heck I was sore in the legs for the next 3 days. Still am actually.....I tore a calf muscle pursuing my son on the beach 3 days later and I don't think it was unrelated. I expect this means that I will have to get fitter if I'm going to use this on the track - either that or get younger......
I'd say that if you are in your twilight years like myself (41)and thinking about Level 3, I would consider doing a lot of core stability work and leg work leading in to the day, and even then I don't reckon you'd come out of it scot free.Anyway big thanks to Al for session 1 and being my coach for the rest of the day, and also to Steve Brouggy who took all the other sessions in his inimitable style.
I reckon I'll have some things for my level 4 coach to cure come next year!
db
-
When is a rider "done" with braking? Is it when the rider fully lets go of the brake lever? Or, is it when the rider is no longer concerned about his entry speed?
Greg, i appreciate you taking the time to respond on the thread but im finding the approach you are taking is a bit frustrating.
I appreciate the whole "ask questions to stimulate thought" approach but i would appreciate straight answers or opinions if you could.
If you are getting frustrated with Greg asking questions.....look out Bullet hasn't started on you yet!!! lol
-
Touched on in someone's soliloquy, here in brief.
If 2 gp riders are dicing, their lap times get slower.....and the bloke behind them catches up.
Because the fella in front is protecting his line, riding defensively, trail braking to the apex to stuff the guy behind him.
Because if he doesn't, the guy behind him certainly will stuff it up the inside, on brakes, slower lap time but position gained.
Case in point, Rossi's overtake on last corner to defeat Lorenzo at Catalunya....Lorenzo believed if he led into the last turn that he was that fast through there that noone could take him.....Rossi showed him that the slow way can win you races.
I rest my case.
db
-
Just chiming in.....
It just drives me mad to see blokes on sportsbikes in short tshirt or singlet, with runners on or even thongs (flip flops for the seppos). They ought to take a visit to the burns unit and check out what gravel rash looks like after 4 weeks of agony. Might make the old "its too hot" or "uncomfortable" excuse seem pretty weak.
I just laugh at the fresh crop of scooter riders who think they are bulletproof too. Do they really think that 6 inch rims are going to be that stable through a pothole, and if you can't get away from traffic, you're probably going to get caught under it sooner or later.
It's lucky that Harley riders are so tough, they won't cry when the skin is peeling off.
Back Protectors are compulsory. You don't wear protection for when things are going well, it's for that time when you don't have time to think and the laws of physics take over.
that's my 2 cents worth
db
-
Mate
check australia superbike school homepage, I got it off there, made an email request about it, they rang me and it was $55 delivered.
db
Sorry I'm an idiot wrong dvd.
db
-
Mate
check australia superbike school homepage, I got it off there, made an email request about it, they rang me and it was $55 delivered.
db
-
I've read all the comments and watched the videos. According to totw, the engine is for accelerating and the brakes are for controlling entry speed. It seems to me (and others) that way too much engine braking is occurring, long before any actual braking is being done. I also noted that there didn't seem to be much emphasis on downshifting to be in the correct gear; in fact while the audio held out I didn't notice much downshifting at all, and the engine appeared to be hauling from very low revs. That's not the end of the world, but it can't help.
So imho I'd be working on being in something like the correct gear, using the brakes for slowing, not the engine, and having a good go at controlling the throttle inputs in the turns. Plenty to work on, just as I have plenty to work on also in many areas.
Hope my comments help you and keep on trying! BTW I would love to video my rides on Eastern creek in Australia to get some feedback, but over here we are banned from any video devices at track days. Shame really cos I reckon it would be a great learning tool.
db
-
8 years. to think of the wasted years......sniff.......
-
Apparently when Lorenzo hit Nicky, his front brake rotor splintered (carbon) and he had no brakes. So he thought he'd try and make the bend, couldn't, and that was the end......gee hayden has had some bad luck with bingles, eh?
-
G'day Kat,
Take quality any time. I've attended a couple of schools, but CSS represents the best - that's why we have this forum and why it is a worldwide venture with world champions in its ranks.
I can't think of any other riding school that is as widespread - I've yet to hear anyone complain about their experience.......but that could also be because the moderators are so good....
Big Brother is watching!!!!
regards
db
-
Sounds like a great idea, to separate myth from reality! Go for it Cobie.
db
-
Just want to echo previous comments - I love this site! First thing I do when I get a chance is come to this to see waht's going on. This is a great thread. Follow it through to the bitter end!!!
db
-
If I understand this correctly it would seem that with no compression damping you are basically just running an unrestrained spring (?) and your front wheel may have just literally bounced off the ground, leaving you with no contact area. Am I way off?
It would have compression damping in there, it would have to, but no adjustment, as I understand it.
db
-
Aaah well, what can I say then? I wouldn't have gone on had I known. Sounds like better forks with compression damping could help, but at what cost? As for dropping the forks through the triple clamps, I've heard of it being done before, but if someone reckons its a big no-no I could believe that. I saw it mostly on drag bikes. You'd have to reckon it would alter the basic suspension characteristics such as trail, and who could know what the effect of that might be? Judging by your experience I think you've changed too many variables at once to try and stop this fork diving.
Could it be that you're being too aggressive on the brakes at the expense of being prepared to concentrate on your cornering? TOTW advises to smoothly brake and set your corner speed more accurately (and higher) rather than charging in, braking like mad and then upsetting the balance of the bike as well as focussing all your attention on the braking....
Anyway, I reckon you'll get to the bottom of it. Get some warmers for those slicks or go to supersport grade street rubber.....some blokes at my last ride day had warmers on their street tyres anway just to be sure!
good luck mate
regards
db
-
Also no expert, but sounds like the tyres could be part of the problem. Second hand slicks - who can know what conditions they had been stored in and for how long, whether they had done too many cycles, and especially no tyre warmers......no point having slicks if you don't have tyre warmers - I reckon you'll just get cold tear when trying to warm them up if you're going fast enough, if your not going fast enough you'll never get them to proper operating temperature, so its catch 22.
Of course that's IMHO.
Regarding preload adjustment as a cure to fork dive under brakes - this would be a stop gap measure at best. Has your body weight suddenly changed? Correct stiffness springs would be a better cure. By adjusting the preload only, you'd be raising the ride height of the front of bike in the process of taking out the springs compliance. This could have been a contributing factor. Unless your compression damping was maxed out already, I think that should have been the adjustment to make to reduce the dive, of course with rebound damping adjustments to suit. If your damping was maxed out, then the problem would have to be the spring rates.
Suspension adjustment is a tricky thing, my advice would be to go and get your spring rates set for your weight, with proper static sag adjustments , and with appropriate valving changes for the different rate of spring, and then experiment with rebound and compression damping settings, one variable at a time, to learn what each variable does FROM YOUR IMPRESSIONS and then attempt to set your bike up from there. Getting a good base setting from a suspension expert is vital, and recording what changes you make religiously so you can return to your base setting is crucial also.
regards
db
Running Wide On Corner Exit
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
G'day all,
I had similar concerns in level 4 - I raised my issues of turning wide with my coach, and after reading the long notes I had prepared, he informed me that it would be about vision - getting the turn in, mid point and particularly end point really sorted! I was shown a detailed circuit map (hand drawn) for eastern creek that another level 4 participant had prepared (he was a landscape designer) and it was incredible how many reference points this fellow had on the track - obviously his vision was working pretty well and he was acutely aware of when and what he was doing at various points around the track!
So I went out and did some of the level 2 drills that were recommended, and focused on getting my vision, particularly at the end of the turn and driving out, fixed up, and would you believe the old adage is true, you go where you look. This helped me greatly on turn 12 (focus on the dangly building thingy) turn 9 (flag marshal on turn 10) turn 7 (the middle of the overhead sign) and turn 2 (the portaloo on the hill).
Interestingly, I hadn't really been pushing it too hard through turn 7, but it is a legitimate corner in its own right, and deserves respect. It can really get you through that section of track a lot quicker, which I guess is the point.
So there's my two bob's worth. Nice to be back.
db