benhamf15
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Posts posted by benhamf15
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Going through coach training I've learned a lot about how set-up affects bikes differently. I've been surprised by just how different the different coach bikes can feel/handle. They're exactly the same bikes but the full-time coaches who ride them most often set them up for their own preferences. It can make a huge difference, especially if your size and/or riding style is different from the coach who set up the bike. There are a couple I feel incredibly comfortable and confident on, and that makes it easy to run really fast laps or focus on the student. Then there are a couple others I prefer to avoid. I have to try to adapt my riding style to make the bike work for me. For example, one is set up in a manner that makes it want to keep leaning in to a corner after I've finished steering it, forcing me to hold a little pressure on the outside bar when I'm riding at a slower pace. The other solution for that bike when I'm riding it is to trail brake in then get on the throttle much harder, but that's not always an option depending on my student. It works great for the coach who set it up, but not so much for me.
I've also learned that tire profiles can play a significant part in this. If a tire has gotten flat on a side from being at that same lean angle a lot, it can make a bike feel like it wants to stand up or fall in to the corner at other lean angles, even with good throttle control and being relaxed on the bars. If you have a bike that does this, the first thing I recommend doing is checking/changing the tire(s). You could chase a lot of adjustments in your suspension without being able to fix that problem and ending up really frustrated.
Cheers,
Benny
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Hey... I resemble that remark!
Benny
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Congrats Hotfoot! I saw that too. I'm way impressed, especially the no crashing part. Very inspiring for all of us but I think especially for other female riders out there. Good luck for even better success next season!
Cheers,
Benny
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Hi Moe!
Welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear Cobie and I were able to have such a big impact on your riding and thanks for the great feedback. Congratulations on your success so far! There's no better feeling for a coach than to know you've made a positive impact, especially if what you've taught your student helped save their bacon. Hopefully I'll be at whatever school you choose to attend. It would be fun to see how your riding has improved first-hand, even if you have a different coach. In the meantime, you'll find tons of great info here to get you through 'til then. Good luck and start posting up your questions!
Cheers,
Benny
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Is there anything other than American? Didn't you know we're so good that we can have world championships without having to invite anyone else? ?
Benny
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Hotfoot. I think the term "addiction" is a very good description. That acceleration should be sold in plastic baggies and sold on street corners instead of in BMW showrooms.
It's sold in generous amounts at every corner by the California Superbike School.
Pass the word!Benny
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Nice improvement Robert! It's good to hear you're making such good progress combining your experiences at the school with the great info here on the forum to continue improving. Impressive! Keep up the great work and keep us all in the loop.
Now tape that friggin' speedometer!
At 161 MPH, you're travelling at 236 feet per second. Can you recall from school academics how long it takes you to look down at the speedo, focus on it, read and interpret it, look back up and focus on the track again? How long is a football field? 
Benny
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I'm a little confused by this.
If you accelerate mid turn, the bike will come up if you don't do anything to stop it, right? The shear force on the front tire from the ground, due to the acceleration of the rear tire, pushes on the front contact patch and does the same thing (creates the same resistance at the contact patch) as countersteering the bike up does -- at least, that's my understanding.
If that's the case, then if you accelerate, the only way to keep the same radius is to "force" a bigger lean angle by countersteering. Right?
Also, by bring the bike out of "balance", do you mean away from the point that it is turning without you needing to maintain pressure on the bar? (As if it is "balanced", once you initiate the turn, you shouldn't have to maintain any pressure to continue at that radius.)
Asterix,
I wanted to address this as it is a common misconception.
How could accelerating "push" the front contact patch. Is there more or less weight on that front contact patch when you're accelerating? If you say less, why would that put more force on it to cause a steering input that brings the bike upright?
The bottom line is that accelerating will not change your lean angle, only a steering input will. Keith addresses this in his book but I don't have it handy to give you the chapter number, but as I recall it is called "Steer With the Rear" or something along those lines. However, going faster with the same lean angle will affect your line. So the question to you is: how will that affect your line... will it be tighter or wider as a result? Could going wider be perceived as the bike "coming up" out of the corner?
Benny
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"Thanks BENHAMF15, that helps a lot."
You're welcome! I'm glad you found it helpful. Any chance you can make it to a school? I think it would help you a lot, especially if you're going to be doing regular track days.
Benny
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Have read "A Twist of the Wrist 2"?
No, just seen the movie.
Close enough. -B
Which tire gave way... front or rear?
I am not 100% sure, but I would say it was the rear since the rear end of my bike spun out away from me in the slide.
If the rear came around as you said then I agree it was most likely the rear and that makes sense with what you say next. -B
As you were adding your lean angle, were you rolling on the throttle at the same time or did you stop rolling on before you steered the bike into a steeper lean? What specifically were you doing with the throttle relative to your steering inputs in the corner?
I am fairly certain I was rolling on.
I think we have the most likely reason here. Adding throttle and lean angle at the same time is the number one reason for track crashes as FieryRobot alluded to. We will instantly pull in students at the school for doing so. Doing either one alone requires the rear tire to deliver more traction and the contact patch increases in size to meet the demand (like pressing a balloon onto a table). However when you do both at the same time, you effectively demand that traction faster than the tire can grow causing a loss of traction. Even sophisticated traction control systems can't save you. If you have to add lean angle in a corner, you MUST at least stop adding throttle. Rolling out of it is also acceptable. -B
On what lap did it occur?
It was mid session, so I was probably already at least 7 laps in.
Was checking to see if your tires were warm. -B
Were you using tire warmers?
No, just using street tires, so why would I have any?
Was the lean angle you were at when you crashed significantly more than it had been in the previous lap or two (i.e. a sudden leap in speed in that corner)?
I wouldn't call it a sudden leap in speed and angle. I doubt I added more than a couple degrees.
Was making sure you didn't put it on a cold edge of the tire. -B
Have you had your suspension set up for your weight (i.e. set the sag)?
Somewhat. The bike is stiffly sprung. Even with the forks at full soft I cannot reach a "proper" sag. I matched the rear sag relative to the front, so to keep a balance, but that would mean that overall the bike is stiff.
I will add one more thing. My friend that was with me that day said that in the same corner, he noticed a significant crack that ran concentric with turn and that when he went over it he felt his rear end slide out a bit but was able to ride through it without issue (as far as riding he s more experienced and had significantly better rubber as well). So this could have also been a contributor, as I also widened up my line to set up for a later apex. This could have put me in a bad position in relation to that crack in the road where it would not have been a problem before.
This can further reduce traction but almost certainly didn't cause the crash. I recommend having your forks re-sprung for your weight so you can set the proper sag. However, if you weren't sliding before and your pace didn't increase suddenly then it's not yet a significant issue for you. -B
Benny
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Mazur,
Sorry to hear about the crash but I'm glad you're ok. Let me start by asking if you have read "A Twist of the Wrist 2"? It addresses many common rider errors that can reduce a bike's traction due to improper rider inputs (i.e. slide before hitting hard parts or even getting your knee down). Being stiff on the bars is one of several of those errors. In your case, if you were stiff/tight on one or both of the bars you will have reduced the traction of the front tire. Maybe not enough to fully CAUSE the crash but certainly enough to contribute to it.
As for the crash, I need a bit more info to help. First, could you tell which tire gave way... front or rear? Also, as you were adding your lean angle, were you rolling on the throttle at the same time or did you stop rolling on before you steered the bike into a steeper lean? What specifically were you doing with the throttle relative to your steering inputs in the corner?
Also, on what lap did it occur? Were you using tire warmers? Was the lean angle you were at when you crashed significantly more than it had been in the previous lap or two (i.e. a sudden leap in speed in that corner)?
Finally, have you had your suspension set up for your weight (i.e. set the sag)?
Cheers,
Benny
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cincydiavel,
It's normal to be nervous, everyone is. However, the CSS crew are true pros and you will quickly find yourself at ease, having fun and learning a ton. Don't think of it as a race track, but as a laboratory for riding. No cars/traffic, no big hazards like guardrails if you run wide. There is never any pressure to go faster than you are comfortable. The coaches are highly trained, especially to spot potentially dangerous riding habits immediately and they will work very hard to ensure you stay upright. It only doesn't work if you don't listen to them or suddenly try to ride well above your current skill level.
As far as preparation goes, it sounds like you've done it. TOTW 2 is the best prep. The classes and the coaches will clear up any confusion you have on the material. If they don't, then ASK. Just show up with an open mind, listen and do your best to apply the drill you learned in the preceding class. A lot of students are super anxious to learn everything all at once. Of course, nobody can actually do that so just concentrate on doing THE ONE drill per session you are given to do as well as you can. They will build on each other to create a significant improvement in your overall riding. Just be patient, especially with yourself.
Your concern/confusion about your line will be addressed in the second drill in level 1.
Welcome and enjoy your experience!
Benny
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And the ability to time sync all of this data to a video camera with the ability to select what data you want to actively display during playback.
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I think for it to be useful you would have to use it comparatively - what I envision would be taking the bike off warmers and looking at the temp display. Say, for example, it reads 180 degrees. Then you run your warm up lap for a race, on a warm day, and get to the starting grid. Check the temp display, it says 175. You start your race, the tires feel good, at the end of the race you check again and the display says 185. Ok, now you have a baseline - it was a warm day, warm track, everything felt good, your tires were staying hot or heating up more in the race.
Next time you race it is a cool day. You check the temp right off the warmers, 180. Then at the grid after your warm up lap on a cold track the display reads 140. You take off and the tires still feel perfect. OK, next time you race on a cool day if the temp reads 140 you know you are probably reasonably OK on the tires, but if it reads 85 you know they are much colder than the last time and you might want to be more cautious in Turn 1.
That is how I would imaging using this thing - sometimes we get stuck waiting to enter the track due to a track cleanup and it seems impossible to guess how much your tires are cooling down as you sit and wait - especially if the wind is blowing. But you can't be TOO conservative on a race start or you lose a ton of positions! So it would seem to be an advantage if you have a way to quantify how much your tires have cooled off especially if competitors do not have that ability.
Certainly it would have to be used with caution because yes, the surface temp can be warm before the carcass - like if you only put warmers on for a short time - and a surface temp reading would be deceptive.
Makes good sense to me. Maybe we can talk Cobie into putting one on a coach bike and gather some data to see if it is really usable. If so, it may help prevent coach cold tire crashes.
Benny
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Tyler I agree with you on this. I'm sure there have been studies but those all depend on your control group. If you were to compare the reflexes of your average F15 pilot and the average person you would find massive differences.
I'd offer up my services for experimentation, but I wasn't average...
Benny
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Very cool, but I wonder how useful it really is in a practical application sense. For example, I'm guessing it probably only tells you the surface temperature of the tire and not the temperature of the carcass which is what really matters. You could do a burn out on a cold tire and make the surface hot, but try to rail it through a corner and it would barely grip better than a fully cold tire so I wonder if you could possibly get a false sense of security. Another thing I learned the hard way is that one side of the tire can be a very different temperature than the other which will affect your grip on right vs. left handers. If you get it telling you the middle is hot and it turns out an edge is barely warm, you may be too confident throwing it into a corner. I wonder if you can get a separate reading somehow on right vs. left side. I'd be surprised if you could get that kind of fidelity but it would be a really awesome tool if you could.
Benny
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Cruise control would definitely make it easier to wave students by on the right side without having them run up on you... Or high five you opponents with your right hand after crushing them in a race.
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I wonder if you can set it for a smooth, even constant roll on throughout the remainder of the turn. We might have to implement a no cruise control drill in addition to no brakes to ensure good training results...
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I cannot feel any instability when I hit the steering as long as I relax instantly. It has amazed me how quickly and effortlessly the bike will go through a set of esses this way - otherwise, I have often noticed I quite a bit effort without much happening and it can take serious force to turn the bike rapidly. But with a hit, I hardly notice the power required and it happens very, very quick.
Hitting the steering sharply is not something I plan to implement as a permanent riding style, it was just something I have tried a little on my last two rides. I do think I can benefit from using a more rapid steering technique, though, by using a very quick movement with high effort but without an actual hit. What are the risks with this? Loss of traction? Dangerous instability?
That relax immediately after you complete your steering is absolutely critical and that would help diminish any wobble very quickly. That's absolutely the correct thing to do when you complete your steering. I can't explain the lack of wobble if you are truly punching the bar. I suspect that either you're not truly "punching" the bar in the way I envision, or perhaps you're using only a little lean angle. Punching the bar to a higher lean angle compresses the fork very quickly and causes it to rebound excessively, causing a wiggle. I wish I could observe what is going on. Nonetheless, congrats on your discoveries!
Cheers,
Benny
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Maybe we can get Keith to add a level 4 drill for this, although we won't be able to call it the "Pick-Up" drill...
Benny
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I have practiced "punching" a bit lately, just to see what happens. This has been done when lean is moderate. I became highly surprised how well the bike reacted to this, with instant change of direction followed by total neutral handling. An input last only a tenth or two, quite cool. I have not tried it at an elevated pace, it doesn't feel natural.
Eirik,
"Punching" the bar (i.e. moving it quickly) will make the bike lean quickly, but also adds instability. I expect your bike shakes a little before settling down? That may be why it doesn't feel natural to you. The proper technique for quick turning the bike is to apply MORE PRESSURE to the bar (i.e. smoothly push harder, not faster). The harder you press, the quicker the bike leans over. The instant it is at the lean angle you want, simply stop pressing on the bar, relax and begin your throttle roll on. It's ok to be rough with your technique in the beginning like you described, but now I recommend you try this and see if you get an even better result. Let me know how it goes.
Cheers,
Benny
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...But today, using sharp, brief steering inputs on my aging Z650 followed by immediate grip relaxation, it finally dawned on me; when you quick steer you compensate my leaning less...
Eirik,
Congratulations on your discovery! I know it's a great feeling to make progress like that. Based on what you said above though, I want to ensure you have the technical points of quick steering exactly right. You spoke of using sharp, brief steering inputs. Are you "punching" the bar to quick turn, or are you using a harder pressure to get the bike to quick turn?
Cheers,
Benny
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Cobie,
I'm guessing you're not gonna let me "borrow" one of the school helmets for my own personal track day next month, so it looks like I'm gonna have to throw down and buy my own to replace my old Shoei. Not only is it over 5 years old now, but with the more agressive, lower on the bike riding position I've developed in my CSS training I just can't see around the corners in it like I can with the Schuberth. The Shoei effectively has a "visor" that limits my vision, even with padding in it to raise it up. The Schuberth doesn't and it makes it much easier to get low on the bike but still be able to see. Not to mention it's a lot lighter, quieter, better ventilated... It's just a spectacular helmet. I've really enjoyed riding with it at the schools and I look forward to having one for myself. Even better that the Schuberth folks will be there to help me get the fit exactly right.
Benny
Pass the word!
At 161 MPH, you're travelling at 236 feet per second. Can you recall from school academics how long it takes you to look down at the speedo, focus on it, read and interpret it, look back up and focus on the track again? How long is a football field? 
Blip, Downshift With Brake Applied
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
There were two keys for me in learning to blip the throttle while on the brakes:
1) Using just my forefinger and middle finger on the lever, leaving my other two fingers and the palm of my hand in contact with the throttle grip, allowing me to twist it with good feel/control.
2) Grabbing the lever as close to the tips of my fingers as possible while still being able to get the necessary brake pressure. This gives you more freedom of motion to twist the rest of your hand. If you grab the lever near the base of your fingers it makes it much more difficult to twist the throttle for the blip.
I also felt it was much more difficult to get an accurate blip at slower speeds/RPMs (say, 4-6K RPM range) than when doing it at higher revs. It can certainly be done, it's was just more difficult to get it right.
Hopefully this can help some of you.
Cheers,
Benny