tmckeen
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Posts posted by tmckeen
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Stroker,
Very sorry to hear about you recent accident, its unfortunate but it sounds like you made out OK overall thanks to some good PPE choices on your part.
So my question to you is, Do you know why and how it happened ?
I ask this because the mental affect of a crash can be very different if you know why it happened or if you're left bewildered and cannot figure out what went wrong in the first place. In my experience I've had 2 wrecks at the track , both low sides and both in the same corner. The first one I was a little unsure of exactly what I did wrong to cause the wreck and couldn't quite figure out my mistake. In that instance it took quite some time to really get my confidence back both in that turn and in left hand turns in general. The second one, I knew exactly why I crashed, what I did wrong and what mistakes I made. In that instance it was able to head right back out on track and turn lap times within about a second of my personal best with no issue.
Everyone's psyche is different, and while some might be chomping at the bit to get back out there others might be a bit more timid and ease back into things. Its really hard to tell how you will be affected from the experiences of others. I've had 2 wrecks that resulted in hospital time, one street and one dirt, and in both instances there was no fear as a result of it. My MX wreck did change my riding style at first, I was less aggressive and more cautious and took time to build back up to the level and pace I was riding at prior, but now all that remains in a sweet scar and a story to go along with it.
Tyler
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Oh the track surface out there DEFINITELY impacts the grip, for the worse
Also its a pain in the back side cleaning the residue off your wheels and chain -
I'll be there, waving flags at naughty people
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I believe they way it was described to me at one of my CSS briefings was basically, Tire's are like Union workers, they do one thing incredibly well, but when you ask them to do multiple things at once, they go on strike
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I never said there was anything wrong with the wear pattern , its just not what you'd expect a tire to look like after 2 days at a race track
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Though more people might have been interested but oh well,
the wear pattern is a result of the new pavement at LVMS which is very, lets call it, Unique ... Everyone on Slicks, DOT Slicks, SuperSport tires, fast or slow had pretty much the exact same smooth wear pattern on their tires, in person it looks like its been polished with fine sandpaper. As the rubber wears off it end's up looking like brake dust all over the back rim, just a fine powder.
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First, Correct it is a Dunlop Q3
Second: its actually wearing quite a bit, and I was riding as aggressivly as I could muster for the conditions, for reference, Will was on track that day and his tires looked almost identical to mine though he was going a bit faster than I was.
Third: the rear shock is the stock unit that's well beyond its service interval and has never been opened up, so the rear suspension just kinda is what it is.
Prize: All the cold beer in your fridge
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Here's a good one for the Tire "Guru's"
What can you tell from this , 28 PSI Cold, ambient Temps in mid to upper 80's
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I just got back from watching my first ever Supercross race and I'm a little at a loss for words out of amazement at the riding skill and precision I witnessed. Well perhaps one word. WOW!
So are you ready to add a dirt bike to your stable yet ?
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So, couple points on the topic at hand
Any time you move your body around on the bike, you move the CoG for the bike. Any time the CoG of the bike changes the handling of the bike changes. Hang off to the left while the bike is upright, the bike will veer left, hang off to the left while the bike is leaned over, it will turn more left, hang off to the left with the bike leaned over just slightly to the right and you will go straight. We have many times in the past compared the physics of motorcycles to those of plane because they are quite similar, and hanging off to one side or the other while the bike is upright is much like burning up all the fuel in one wing of a plane and not the other. I believe the proper term is "wing heavy". The end result is the bike / plane veers slightly and requires some slight banking to correct and maintain a straight trajectory.
Can you steer a motorcycle without using the handle bars ?
Yes, you can. HOWEVER its not EFFECTIVE. as my current street bike has cruise control I have a fair bit of experience riding it hands free and you can absolutely change lanes on the freeway or navigate moderate sweeping corners at freeway speed simply by hanging off the bike and muscling it around with your core and feet, But you cant turn quickly and accurately enough to navigate a freeway interchange or a off ramp. Consider riding a bicycle with no hands, with practice you can negotiate turns fairly easily, a motorcycle is no different, it just has considerably more mass, gyroscopic force and inertia that has to be overcome to get it to change direction.
In summary
Body Positioning is always effective,
Body Steering is not.
Tyler
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Eirik,
I've noticed that the tire comparisons you post never seem to use the Dunlop Q2/Q3 , always the Sportsmart line, which I don't think they even sell here in the US
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Like RChase said the school uses a RFID system for their lap times and it is HIGHLY unlikely you have hardware that is compatible with it.
However you will find that your lap times will be mostly irrelevant while at CSS, for one your riding at a conservative pace to focus on drills and practicing techniques, not trying to put down fast laps, and secondly since the school groups riders by the level they are taking and not by lap times like a normal track day, you will find the pace of the other students on track is very broad and further complicates any attempt to set a personal best lap time. As long as you can retrieve 5 sessions of lap times from your lap timer at the end of they day, your paying for information you'll already have.
Tyler
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It's really awesome to watch Will, the school mechanic, ride the school's slide bike. He can get in a circle and just run that back tire through its paces - from no visible slide all the way up to smoking and spinning, and everything in between, all without losing control of the bike. Watching him do that is a good reminder that sliding the tire does not have to be like falling off a cliff - it can be done a little, or a lot, and anything in between; the trick is learning good technique so that you can be in control of the bike.
Can I sign up for a level 4 and just do the slide bike all day
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Does Schuberth offer different sized padding inserts to adjust the fit on the SR1 ?
Also when will you guys next be doing a "Fitment Clinic" here in SoCal ??
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If someone did set up a bike with some kind of steering force input data logging system, it would be quite interesting have riders who claim to not use counter steering take it for a spin and record just how much steering input they are actually using.
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For example, if I were told it took 400 foot/pounds of torque to get that particular steering result on that ride it would mean very little to me. If I were told it took 250 pounds of force on the bar, I could relate to that.
400 Foot pounds of torque is 250 Lbs of force applied to a 1.6 foot lever arm, or 25 Lbf and a 16 foot lever, or 4800 Lbf at 1" .. etc. etc.
You might have a better understanding of what 250 Lbf is, but I seriously doubt you can sense or tell how much force your actually applying to the bars on the fly. Using both arms to steer even further complicates that, is it 200 lbs of push and 50 lbs of pull or 150 and 100.
Regardless of if you were measuring the force applied to the clip on's, or the torque at the steering stem, your going to have to go and and get a feel for what the #'s are a few times before you can even begin to look at the data, and since many many factors affect the "flickability" of a bike the exact numbers wont translate from bike to bike, so while the data would be neat, and it could serve as a tool to help someone overcome some fear's related to aggressive steering inputs by showing them what they are doing and demonstrating what its possible on the same machine, I doubt the data would be as useful as one might think.
If it was truly useful telemetry, MotoGP teams would be collecting it, and while I know they are recording a ton of stuff, I don't think this is on that list
Tyler
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SO, if you can change the leverage by extending or re positioning the bar's, that means the pressure applied at the bar is a variable in the system, but not the "answer"
The real data you want is the actual torque applied at the steering stem, where Torque = Force x Distance, so the pressure or force applied to the bars x the length of the lever arm it is applied to. The transducers and electronics to measure this are a bit pricey, but the design of the system would be rather simple actually.
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For Cobie or Benn
What affect does widening the clip on's/Handle bars, ( or even your grip on them) have on the effort required to complete a given turn rate and a given speed ???
and
Why ???
Tyler
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I'm sure your familiar with what actually generates the heat in your tires, which is carcass flex
My point was that if after nothing but 80 mpg straight line travel, moderate braking and no hard cornering at tire pressures that limit carcass deformation to a minimum my tires were still warm to the touch, the idea that yours would be 65-73° after a track session that included hard braking and sharp corners seems off,
Personally I'd be curious at profiling the actual temperature of your tire compared to what the temp display on your warmers claim's to be. I did this with mine when I first got them, and while they don't have a temp display the uniformity and temperature was not the even perfect 170° I was hoping for
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So I did my own very unscientific test this morning
My morning commute the temps were in the low to mid 60's, Q3's at 38 and 40 psi, after 35 or so miles of freeway, a few stop lights and a mile or two of surface streets when I arrived at work my tires were still warm to the touch, so I'm pretty sure the temps you listed for coming in off the track are WAY!!! off.
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I believe the concept of measuring the amount of force applied to the bar's has been mentioned at least once or twice before on these forums
The actual measurement you're after isn't force, its torque
you could probably design a system for a bike with handlebars and strain gauge between a custom bar mount and the triple clamp to measure the torque applied at the steering stem, but I don't think the data you would be able to collect would be all that useful, though it would be kinda neat to compare with other riders and see how "aggressive" your steering input.
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RChase,
I'm pretty sure your method of checking your tire temps after a session is, at best, wildly inaccurate. If your using the temp indication on the tire warmers them selves, they have been sitting in your pit, off and basically cooled down to the ambient temperature, and just putting them back on the tires isn't going to transfer enough heat from the rubber itself to wherever the sensor in your tire warmer's is to give you a accurate temperature. Get yourself a cheap IR thermometer and check the tire with that when you pit in.
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I like the Super-bike Tail with a race seat setup, the seat foam that came from Armour Bodies is a bit thicker than some of the stuff I've seen on other bikes at the track so it provides a touch more comfort. its super grippy and I really like that, when swapping bikes with fellow riders that have a stock seat and no stomp grips I feel like I have 0 traction on the bike and getting my normal stable lock on is much more difficult.
I don't currently have a bump stop, but I'd like to add one, mostly cause sliding my ass back and forth across the bike is starting to cut a hole in my leathers where it rubs the tail section.
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Looks like the TV deal is done,
The new home of AMA will be on CBS Sports in 2015, with aditional content on www.Torque.TV
info here
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/motoamerica-races-will-be-broadcast-on-cbs-sports-network/
The Low Down On Tank Grips?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Stomp grip has a few different styles of grip profile, the one's I have on my R6 are quite pointy and can be uncomfortable with just pant's on, but the set I have for my FJR are much less aggressive and are just fine with Jean's. I believe the one's on the school's new fleet are a 3rd design of larger volcano's than whats on either of mine.