Franco802
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Posts posted by Franco802
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Hello everyone,
I haven't been on this site for many years and forgot it even existed until I ran into it in my bookmarks. I went to CSS back in 2013, and had a blast. I had only been riding about a year and wanted more instruction. The school was amazing and it took my riding onto another level. I started carving the canyons twice a week, then started track days twice a month. I ended up starting to race with MotoWest at Willow Springs (Club still around?). I had also started training at other race schools. Riding and racing became my passion. I started teaching newer riders to ride in the canyons and made several YouTube videos. I must of read TOTW2 about 100+ times and watched the dvd more than 300+ times. Brought it to motorcycle classes for newbies, hangouts, etc. Unfortunately, I went down in the canyon back in 2015 and was almost killed. I almost lost my left leg, but it was saved. I had 14 surgeries and didn't walk for almost a year. Was also in the hospital for about 4 months. I picked up riding again in 2017, but only light street riding for about 6 months and stopped again after a car almost ran into me.
So now my friend gave me a 2005 Hayabusa that didn't run. I got it running and have a huge itch to ride again. I also have the itch to do track days again. But I'm thinking of going back to CSS to sharpen my skills and bring me back to speed. I noticed the prices went way up like everything else compared to when I first went, but I understand that. Is the curriculum still the same? Just included a pic of what happens when you get run over by another bike in the canyons.
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As far as looking into the turn. I don't think I have any issues here. I always look into the turn. I always have my head turned. I did find out yesterday that I am right eye dominant. This makes alot of sense. I did a little test. I went out to the same canyon I ride. But I took my truck our there this time. I know it's a totally different vehicle and on four wheels, but I felt more comfortable going faster on right turns than left. Even in my truck. And it definitely does have to do with which eye is dominant.i can feel it.
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Dylan here. No one really knows why most prefer turning in a particular direction but it's my guess that is may be related to which eye is dominant. Aside from that, one way to assist in the corners is to turn your head in further--riders tend to not turn their heads into the turn direction they don't like. Also they tend to get tense. So two things you can do is remember to turn your head in, and apply the "relax" drill.These past couple of months, a friend of mine has taken the time to mentor me in the canyons. I have improved my riding level by at least 70%. Entry speed, speed in the turn, exit speed, body positioning, braking, the whole nine yards. Even my left turns and I hate left turns!
I attended CSS back in September at SOW. I learned a bunch while being there. I took level 1 only, but had a blast!! I remember Dylan asking who was left handed. I was the only one who raised my hand. He then asks me "You must LOVE right turns?" I gave him a big nod, lol. I don't remember what he said after that, but I'm sure someone here will tell me.
How do I conquer this fear? I have got better at my lefts. This is by forcing myself to increase entry speed, but still scary. I also have better body position on my lefts, all my buddies who watch me tell me that and I know the reason. It's because when I am on a left turn, my body is hanging off pretty good. That's because I am afraid of the left and want to make sure I make the bike go left, so I am completely hanging off. Then on my rights, it's a no brainer and I feel so comfortable, I don't have to hang off as much.
DC
Thank you Dylan. I will apply this drill and turn my head in more. I do notice that when I'm relaxed on my rights, my right should seems to drop more naturally as well.
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Pic on my GSXR600 was my second time out to the canyons and the pic on the R1 was the 4th time out. More speed of course. This is the same exact turn.
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These past couple of months, a friend of mine has taken the time to mentor me in the canyons. I have improved my riding level by at least 70%. Entry speed, speed in the turn, exit speed, body positioning, braking, the whole nine yards. Even my left turns and I hate left turns!
I attended CSS back in September at SOW. I learned a bunch while being there. I took level 1 only, but had a blast!! I remember Dylan asking who was left handed. I was the only one who raised my hand. He then asks me "You must LOVE right turns?" I gave him a big nod, lol. I don't remember what he said after that, but I'm sure someone here will tell me.
How do I conquer this fear? I have got better at my lefts. This is by forcing myself to increase entry speed, but still scary. I also have better body position on my lefts, all my buddies who watch me tell me that and I know the reason. It's because when I am on a left turn, my body is hanging off pretty good. That's because I am afraid of the left and want to make sure I make the bike go left, so I am completely hanging off. Then on my rights, it's a no brainer and I feel so comfortable, I don't have to hang off as much.
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Franco,Now I own a 12' R1 which is even more sensitive on the throttle. It almost drives me nuts and makes me want my 05' R1 back because the throttle was so forgiving on the bottom end on that bike. The bottom end grunt on this one makes you feel like your walking on eggshells when you turn around a little corner and need to accelerate while at slow speeds. But I have become pretty good at it so far. This is also the bike I used at level one of CSS, which was a blast!!
I have an R6S that has a throttle that is very tricky as well. It is very easy to be abrupt when transitioning from off-throttle to on-throttle. I used to hate it but I've learned to appreciate it because it requires a very delicate touch. One that you can't have when you're even remotely stiff on the bars. It taught me that when I was being abrupt with the throttle it was because I wasn't relaxing enough. Now, a rough transition form off to on throttle is my first indication that I need to relax so I've learned to embrace that tricky throttle. It's been a great training aid. Try to relax like you were taught in Level 1 and I bet your transitions become smoother.
Benny
Exactly!!!!!!! This is what taught me to relax on the bars!! It took me 6 solid months to learn and relax while riding. Even to this day when I'm excited while going on a ride with my friends , I'll tense up a little. But then realize I need to relax and I do.
Very true Benny. Stiff on the bars with off/on throttle especially making a right or left hand turn from a stop light with a busted up street. You have to relax on the bars for stuff like that or bad things can happen.
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As for the SR of rolling off the throttle mid-corner... let's work toward that answer by having you (or anyone else) answer this question first:
1) What desirable effects does good throttle have on the bike? It maximizes two important things. What are they?
Benny
Better control & keeps the bike stable??
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...One thing I did not do, which I been training myself not to do after reading TOTW2 and watching the video is to not chop the throttle in the turn. I stayed on the throttle until about 2 seconds of running wide and into the ditch where I crashed....
I'm back, sorry for the delay. It seems like you're comfortable with the information on how to prevent setting yourself up to run wide by using a good turn point that makes the turn as straight as possible, and steering as quickly as possible. If I'm wrong in that assumption, let me know.
Next, I'd like to address your statement above because I believe your understanding of throttle control is incomplete. First, the CSS definition of a good line consists of three elements: 1) Requires only one steering input 2) Allows proper throttle control 3) Makes your line through the corner as straight as possible. If you are on a line that does not ALLOW proper throttle control (i.e. you're running wide), does continuing to accelerate make sense? The answer is obviously no (I hope). The faster you go, the wider your arc becomes, which runs you even wider. The proper solution at that point is to MAKE A NEW TURN. To do so, you should REDUCE the throttle to at least neutral (less is better as it helps you steer more easily), steer the bike on to your NEW line and then apply proper throttle control again. DO NOT re-steer the bike WHILE accelerating because adding throttle and lean angle at the same time is a recipe for losing traction in the rear and crashing. Keith and the CSS crew will tell you that is the number one cause of track crashes.
I think it is awesome that you were able to train yourself to overcome the roll-off the throttle SR. It is a great demonstration to all of us that it is possible. I just think there was a small misunderstanding about the application of proper throttle control. That, combined with the target fixation you identified, I think is what kept you from being able to get yourself out of the situation you got yourself into by turning in early. You're definitely on the right track in seeking good information and working to apply it to your riding and I hope you don't let your mishap deter you from continuing on that path. Even better would be to get to a professional school (obviously, my personal recommendation is CSS). Best of luck and let me know if you still have any questions or I've been unclear.
Benny
Yes you are correct Benny. I have still been thinking about what happen and it has stuck in my mind. I never chop the throttle. I have taught myself that with my own experience and reading Keith Code's book and watching TOTW2.
When I first started riding last year I had a Harley iron 883. I got bored and decided to purchase a sport bike. So I went out and purchased an 05' R1 which was not a good Idea, especially after only putting 190 miles on the Harley and selling it. So I mostly learned on the R1.
The thing I learned on that liter bike the most was throttle control. I quickly learned that chopping the throttle on a liter bike will put you on your ass quickly. Not that it happened to me. But when your accelerating and then all of the sudden you chop the throttle on a bike like that, that front end tucking hard and almost crashing will stick with you as a newer rider for a long time. So I learned throttle control pretty well.
Now I own a 12' R1 which is even more sensitive on the throttle. It almost drives me nuts and makes me want my 05' R1 back because the throttle was so forgiving on the bottom end on that bike. The bottom end grunt on this one makes you feel like your walking on eggshells when you turn around a little corner and need to accelerate while at slow speeds. But I have become pretty good at it so far. This is also the bike I used at level one of CSS, which was a blast!!
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I rode dirt for years, but never had rode a street bike until last year in November. I took the MSF class through Harley Davidson which was an excellent course. Not the regular 2 day msf with 125cc bikes. This was a 5 day class and we used Buell Blasts which were 4 stroke 500cc I believe. We had 5 females in our class and they did great. These bikes are hard to come by these days.
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Your suspension is likely to be a tad soft for you. My 03 R1 was set up from the Yamaha factory for a rider in the 150-170lbs range.
I'm around 190lbs.
I'm going to have to agree with you. It does feel soft. Especially when I was out at the Super bike school wearing a full suit. Not that it would of made me better as I wasn't that fast anyway. But I could tell it was softer.
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Also wanted to add that my suspension has never been touched. I haven't had it adjusted. I weigh 209 lbs. Not sure for what weight factory settings are.
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It seems crazy that you were able to cover almost 180 degrees of curve, just to run wide at the end.
Going up hill, we need less acceleration to keep the proper weight balance, as the rear feels more weight than the front.
Too much throttle in those conditions and you could overload the rear and harden the steering.
I do remember it being very hard to counter steer near the end.
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It's amazing how much faster a corner become when you turn in too early. And how little you can see. I've use late turn-ins since my bicycle days as it slow things down and gives you so much more visibility as well as more choice of lines.
So true. I definitely was not ready for the second apex.for crying out loud, they even show this in TOTW2. I've watched that video over 50 times (not kidding) and I still managed to screw up that turn.
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Target fixation is the worst SR in my opinion! Of course its hard to say looking at still pictures but you rode into the ditch pretty late into corner exit. Do you think you could have made it dispite your early apex and high entry speed if it weren't for target fixation?
Yes.
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Do you remember where you were looking when you turned in? My guess is that you were already looking at the inside of the corner when you steered the bike. We go where we look, WHEN we look. Also, if you already felt at that point that you were too fast, riders have a tendency to "cheat" towards the inside early because we're looking there out of fear (fixated on the inside of the corner). In reality, it sets us up for failure because it forces us onto a tighter line that ultimately forces us to use MORE lean to make it work (or we run wide). The solution is to stay as wide as possible for as long as possible before steering. This straightens out the corner as much as possible, thus requiring less lean angle for the same entry speed. Being able to quick turn the bike allows you to run even deeper before steering and straighten the turn even more. The slower we steer, the earlier we must do so, the tighter the line must become and the more the required lean angle increases. In an unfamiliar corner, stay wide until you can recognize an apex based on the radius/characteristics of the corner. (HOTFOOT, do you have a good book reference? I don't currently have mine available.). Once you can see enough of the corner to know where it really goes, then you can commit. In a familiar corner, find a good turn point and use the 2 step technique. Anyone remember the three characteristics of a good turn point from their CSS training? The 2 step? Chime in.
Does this sound close to what happened to start off the crash sequence? If so, does the solution make sense? Once we get this straight, we'll address the fix once you're running wide. Yes, hook turn would have been at least part of the solution.
Benny
Yes your correct, I was already looking inside of the corner and near the end I went wide and then target fixated on the wall and ditch.
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I turned in way to early. I did not turn where I intended to. I was keeping steady gas in the turn. But when I got half way through it, I slowly accelerated. Then I started going wide and started looking at the wall, then down at the ditch. I should of kept looking into the turn. I think this is where the hook turn maneuver would of helped?
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Rode dirt bikes for 10 years and went down about 7 or 8 times in those 10 years. But this was my first time on a street bike in the one year I been riding and it's definitely much different.
I have analysed what I might have done over and over again. I narrowed it down to early entry, too much speed and target fixation in that exact order. Everything I learned at the school on what not to do, I did. One thing I did not do, which I been training myself not to do after reading TOTW2 and watching the video is to not chop the throttle in the turn. I stayed on the throttle until about 2 seconds of running wide and into the ditch where I crashed. Here is a few pics of the turn. I crashed riding up the hill not down. My bike is facing the opposite way because I came back down the hill to take pics. I took a panorama pic and a couple of regular ones. I thought I have been doing much better, I started teaching myself body position in the turns and decided to run a little hotter than usual yesterday. I am very humbled right now.
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They'll take good care of you if you call the office!
Thank you:)
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More than likely a stupid question.
When I was at the level 1 class September 14, I was going to buy tires before I left at the end of the day. But since I was sick, all I was thinking about was loading up and getting the heck out once the day ended. So I forgot to pick up tires from you guys. Did I miss out on the great prices? Do I have to sign up for level 2 to get the discount prices? I am going to do level 2 next, but it wont be until beginning of 2014.
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Yup, $80 for a king, $90 for two queens.
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Franco802,
I camped back in June. It was a little warm for me. I'd say it's totally worth the money to head into lancaster. There's something to be said for the quality of sleep the night before you hit the track hard like they do at CSS.
If you do camp I'd recommend setting up your tent on the east side of the classroom building by the A/C unit. There's water available on the southwest corner of the building. Walk the track if you do because there's all kinds of cool stuff to see.
Also, there is a thermometer in the fence next to where your tent will be for your own sadistic knowledge...
See, I missed all that cool stuff! Walk the track? Are you kidding me? We would be allowed to do that? Wow! Definitely camping next time. Thanks for the tips!
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Cobie is right about the Devonshire. It was a dump and I paid $90 for two queen room. Never again. Next time I'm camping at the track. I didn't even know we were allowed to. Or I would of saved $90.
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A good read imho while you sign up for lessons ~
CODE BREAK | Small Steps, Big Leaps
By Keith Code
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/columns/1309_being_relaxed_in_the_saddle/
A great read! Thanks.
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That is the focus of Level 3. Is that Streets of Willow? I don't see any candy striping...
Yes, that's streets. I believe that's turn 8?
Blast From the Past
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
2013, my coach was Gerry Signorelli. Such a great dude!!! Where's Gerry?!!!