636rider
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Posts posted by 636rider
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1. after coming off 2 crashes at the track i realize one big issue i have is when i go into a turn, i end up leaning more into the turn as it progresses. Why is that?
During the crash, it seems your upper body is not hanging off to inside with the bike but crossover to outer side more as you lean more. This may end up bike leaning more into the turn as it progresses (you are pushing the bike more down as you crossover more). In addition, not hanging off properly, you cannot hang loose and then may have put weight on handle bar that makes the bike wobble too.
Not sure my observation is accurate and need other riders to confirm, but the next comment cannot be too much off---the crash could have been saved with level 3 skills of body position and hook turn.
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Hotfoot and others' suggestions might have solved your problem already. You might want to check your pants too. If it is too loose, it will affect anchoring the tank (tip from Cobie).
Hope you are not wearing a size 34 when 30 fits well.
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Hello again,
I've got this weird problem. When i'm trying to hang off the bike doing a right hand turn it just feels a bit ackward and strange compared with the left ones. Does anyone here have or had similar problem? How i can overcome it? Or maybe it's just in my head and i simply need to stop thinking about it?
Not sure due to being a right-handed rider. I hang off easier to left as a right-hand person. However, when another student in bike school said not as smooth on right side lean. Keith suggested another way of twisting the throttle for us to try (in his words, like holding a screw driver)and it makes a big difference in leaning. Some how the way of holding the throttle can be different for each side.
Interesting to find out whether the left-handed rider will lean easier on the right side. Any left-handed rider to tell us?
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Hello everyone!
I've just signed up here and would like to get some good advice. About 4 months ago i bought my first "big" bike which is 09 zx6r. I've read alot of things about cornering including Twist of the wrist but lately i've got a feeling that i,m going backwards. Is it because i'm thinking about too many things when approaching th turn(counter stering , lean angle , hanging off the bike , keepping my weight on the oposit footpeg , looking into the turn). maybe i should concentrate on one thing at the moment and when i'm confident with it move on to the next one , if that's the case which one of those is most important for a beginner? Or maybe i should get different bike because someone told me lately that supersports and superbikes are not good for learners because of the body position. Any advice would be appreciated:)
Hello Y4C4,
There are so many areas for improving cornering and are difficult to fix all at once. As yourself have pointed out, it is easier to solve one at a time. You can develop some basic but important cornering habits when riding upright, such as smooth, continuing steadily throttling or braking, not as a on-off switch. Riding with relaxed arm and with Wide view (no target-fixation)etc. Now when you start the counter steering as first drill in cornering, you may have taken care of 2 or 3 problems without even noticing them. If your arm is not relaxed during counter steering, it will be easier to fix because you can relax but now it is a SR that you need to remember to overcome. Superbike allows you to lock with both legs during riding/braking when upright or one leg with cornering, so that you can relax your arms which is good too. To me, able to quick turn with wide view is the most important skill; but to do this, you will need good 2-step skill too. Reading books alone needs careful understanding. The best advice is still some CSS school time if you can ASAP.
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4) I usually use a Canyon Dancer but recently someone told me they "ruin your handgrips and can damage the throttle." Any truth to that? Have you experienced it (I've been using them a long time and haven't had any trouble) and if so, what do you do instead?
5) I never use ratcheting tie downs because I have heard they give so much leverage you can bend your bars, is that true?
I am a cheap guy, and use tie downs without Canyon Dancer. However, I use it differently. I cut a length of strap only from a tie down (eliminate the metal parts). I wrap the pure strap around the handbar and then attach two ratchets-- one to each end of same strap. I can adjust and balance bike easily from both side with ratchets and not bottoming out the shock. It works fine with me and no metal pieces near the bike to touch the handbar or throttle. Worths trying if you forget your Canyon Dancer.
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I hope to attend CSS in 2011--almost certainly at VIR. One of my concerns is with the shifting. I've had trouble with my left hand (carpal tunnel syndrome) and besides that, my muscles fatigue easily--especially when I'm excited (darned genetics). At home, my solution is a 650 maxi-scooter with an automatic transmission (three power modes by the way). With all the power the S1000RR makes, would it be possible to use the clutch but skip gears, or will the electric shifting allow me click up and down through the gears without using my hands at all? Thanks.
Crash,
You may want to apply lubricant to the clutch cable links and see whether it will help reducing the force for activating clutch.
Best may be as Bubba and others have suggested- use clutchless shifting. Try to ask any coach at school or Cobie if he is available to help or demo how. You may like it when you find out how smooth shifting can be even at lean when not using clutch- though should have avoided shifting at this moment.
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There are different areas/techniques on body position and are covered in level 3. However, I have asked coach to demonstrate the proper way of one-leg anchoring the bike during level 2, and get something to work on before the level 3. If you have any question related to other levels, I bet you will get an answer as soon as you ask. Cobie has answered and demonstrated my questions on clutchless up or down shifting even they are not in the syllabus.
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Pivot steering yeah...but by midcorner I am not expected to do any steering corrections at all...and it is in this phase of the corner that I try weighing the outside peg to prepare for either a chicane or a to pick the bike up...I am not having any issues with being light on the bars (unless when panicking) and I am totally confused whether its even requiered to have some weight on the outside peg when in mid corner. I am aware that I am being repetative but thats because I am constantly struggling with trying to express what my real problem is. I wish I could be more pellucid. TBH why am I bothering ? Someone somehwere told me with excess weight on the inside peg the bike will slide out from underneath you in a corner. I have had a low side which I have not been able to decipher and have begun wondering if this was the cause ? Can this even be the cause ? I am finicky when it comes to buying advices from ppl on the streets.
...To prepare for a chicane, remember this drill?--
Check out which part of leg is applying force.
...To pick up the bike, steering will be more effective than weight on peg [sometimes you may not want to move the upper body during pick up, so that the body is ready for the next turn (same hand turn) too ].
Hope it makes sense.
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Attending this CSS at Willow Springs April 24-25, levels 1-2 (2 day camp was full, doh!) It was like a dream come true for me. The only problem is that I waited too long to get to a track day after I attended the school and now I am not nearly as confident as I was when I left the school after the second day.
I went to Talladega GP two weekends ago and rode my 1998 VFR (not really a track bike, as it's all stock) and I feel I did fairly well, but not as I expected.
I was not able to keep pace with the faster novice riders and I really thought I would be out in front. Then I saw photos of my riding and although my body position was good, I wasn't really aggressive with my lean angles. I think I have reached my own personal limit and that is very disappointing.
I have been watching the Twist II DVD and reviewing the book, but I feel like I have lost it. "It" being the feeling that I know what I am doing with the bike at all times. I at the end of the school (I took lvl 1-2) I was able to hit all the turn point markers and it was an awesome feeling. Now I feel less precise.
I have another track day at Nashville Super Speedway in a few weeks.
How do I overcome this feeling that I have reached my personal limit?
Here is a Youtube video of me and my girlfriend riding 2up at Talladega GP. I really didn't ride that much slower with her on the back. She loved it, by the way! =D
Kelly (yeah, I'm a dude)
Hello Kelly,
I guess the personal limit is also related to the skill. It may be also preferable to spend the money on another level of school instead of more track days, since there are some techniques to learn at level 3 that can save some problems at track too. I find one skill will help to develop the other. For example, without wide view, quick turn alone will not make one able to use higher entry speed easily. Level 3 will help to use less bike lean. When knowing no need to lean the bike that much, there is more confidence in quick turn too. When one can quick turn better, guess what: he/she can turn later (minimize running wide), use less bike lean or higher entry speed. In addition, knowing the hook-turn technique from level 3 will also allow trying higher entry speed. Enjoy your time to practice for improvement!
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Thanks Kane.
I am not sure I understood what you said though.
If putting pressure on the right footpeg when in lean in a left turn is benefecial how the F do I effect any pressure on the outside peg ? Everytime I try doing that I feel I am gonna fall off the bike. I feel like such a noob (and am one)
I have taken all four levels but either wasnt paying attention or am just plain stupid.
I posted a few of my lean pics on one of the R1 forums out there and they said I should try going lighter on the inside peg. Ever since then (about 4 months) I have been trying to do that but all in vain.
I want to take CSS levels again so bad its not even funny. I even got the money ready for it. A bunch of 5 riders and I are awaiting the return of Gary, Jet, Adam and Andy to my country. I cant forget the lessons I had with Andy Ibbott. But untill these guys fly to my country again I am gonna have to learn by asking questions here
TH;
If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).
As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.
Rain
Agree with Kevin 100% that most the "weight" is on outside peg. The fact of putting the weight on outside peg is not for adding weight on the bike through the outside peg, but as the means to apply outside knee force on the tank to anchor the bike with the help of the outside peg. This allows a relax grip at handle bar and efficient counter-steering with inner arm. Imagine pushing the handle bar with inner arm while pushing the outside foot only (with no "weight" on inner peg), which is very effective for steering input.
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Your friends who don't countersteer actually do. They just don't know it. [/size][/font][/color]
Thats spooky stuff, that doing things but you dont know it, got that little tune from the twilight zone stuck in my head now!
Really though, I remember speaking to a guy and he told me there's 2 types of counter steering, he called it passive counter steering and active counter steering. Passive being the people that dont know there doing it and active being well us really or the people who use it to set there bikes direction intentionally.
As for that little no hands video, things like that dont impress me one bit, we all know it can be done and as mentioned earlier is easily do able on a bicycle, if the guy could direct the bike with precision then It be different!
Bobby
Agree with you. The no-hands-video-steering is not the "precise efficient steering" as defined by Keith.
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I came up with a few theories:
1) Perhaps the weight shift to the front of the bike causes the forks to dip, and the steering geometry to change, causing a quick change in turn in (i..e a suddenly decreasing turn radius) that increases the cenripetal forces due to the sudden changes in radius? To my mind then, this effect would not be seen in bicycles with no suspension? maybe a cyclist can confirm this?
2) Is it because the sudden deceleration causes the front tyre to start skidding, and the dynamic friction afforded by a slipping front tyre is a lot less than the rolling friction? Although this does not make sense as there si noreason the tyre would not just continure to roll?
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It seems 1) is reasonable. Due to sudden "increasing" of centripetal force, there is additional forward component of the centripetal force, so that the front tire needs to fight the original centripetal force plus this new slightly forward component---the tire keeps on rolling, but also slipping to side-forward until down too.
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Is it because the change in trail cause the bike to turn in more suddenly, changing the radius of the turn too quickly and increasing the centripetal acceleration so quickly that the friction of the tire is overwhelemed? This makes sense, as it is only the front wheel that gives way.
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R Sole,
This makes sense to me too.
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I was wondering if it's a good idea to install tank traction pads (i.e. StompGrip, TechSpec, etc.) on the tank? what are pros and cons?
Without Tank Pad, you will miss a lot of fun. I believe it should be the first upgrade to bike if not the slider. I have tried the old school bikes but (by mistake?) I use eGrip because it is relatively clear and not hiding the graphics on the tank. It is silicone rubber and so even it is smoother (good for jean or bare skin), still has very good grip; but silicone is not as durable as other pads when rubbed by leather. ( I shall avoid graphics in next bike; but if there is graphics to show, I shall use eGrip again ). EGrip offers free sample kit too.
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I ride to work because I want to make going-to-work fun! Cannot find a better motivation to leave home in the morning.
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Looks like talking about Keith's article on "The Barriers to Improvement":
Quote:
[ Good Starts
Take starts for example. You try to get a good launch and the right hand is too nervous on the throttle; your attention is fixed on it and the start is bogged. Putting all of ones attention onto the throttle and resisting the impact it "might" have leaves no attention free to look after the clutch.
Done properly, we bring the clutch out to just before engagement and pin the throttle, leaving all of our attention free to use the clutch and correctly meter the power to get the launch; no bog, no wheelie.]
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Hey
I might be coming to the US to visit Disneyland with my family in the next 6 to 12 months...sooooo i was wondering what tracks are nearby?
thinking maybe a 2 day camp. Be nice to have an idea when the 2 day camps are just so I can book the holiday around the track dates
Family first of courseCheers
Hi Oz,
If you have time, why not also consider flying or driving north too (6 hr) to visit San Francisco, then take school at Sears Point. And see how good you will match Ben Spies's AMA Superbike qualifying record of 1:35.893 track record there. Hopefully your family will not complain seeing the Golden Gate Bridge after your bike school.
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I am having a normal leather pant. what is the tight-fit leather pant? I have not heard about it.
I try to say the pant will fit snugly so that your leg will not move relatively to the pant as the pant grips the tank-- similar to when your thigh touches the tank with bare skin.
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Hi all,
I am a newbie, I have been to the track 3 times and I have an issue that I hope someone will clear it for me.
Normally I try to keep my body away from the tank abit for easily shifting from side to side. However, I found it is extremely hard to set up for a tight corner after heaps of braking. My body must fight a lot to keep the position- away from the tank and relax the bar. BUt the true is that i feel a lot of weight on the bar because my knee can not fully support my body. As a result i mess it up and this had caused me crashing.
Should I just use the tank as the base to take all the braking force so that i can relax the bar more and set up for corner?
I dont know what is the right thing to do here.
Thanks
Troy
(sorry if my English is hard to understand)
Hello Troy,
Have you tried a pair of tight-fit leather pant (your leg won't shift inside), with Tech Spec or similar on the tank, and use your knee to grip the tank, (or one leg to anchor the tank)? Using the knee to anchor will help no-load at handle bar.
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/quote]
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I presume you have a 636?
Yes, I still have the 06 636 and use regular Rotella oil since first oil change.
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I've been going through the most ridiculous pursuit of engine oil research. There are SO many choices and even more opinions. But frankly I can’t seem to find an absolute.
Some examples are:
Motul 300v Synthetic – Expensive but good.
Repsol Synthetic – No opinions yet.
Mobil 1 Synthetic – Seems largely liked.
AMSOIL – Seems really good but can't get turned off by pushy sales people.
So what are your likes?
Hi Gorecki,
I guess you may have reached the
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
Some info there. Regular Shell Rotella seems good too.
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How can there be a 'wrong' way to steer? And if there is, can it be used to advantage in some cornering situations?
TOTW II - chapter 19 - page 84 talks about 'pushing the bike underneath you motocross style' as being the wrong way to steer on the road / track. It seems to me to be useful in esses, particularly on a sports tourer.
Muppett
As Stuman has indicated, pushing down underneath makes sense when we are riding at slow speed for a tighter turn, which is what the sheriff department teaching the riding officer with a 1000CC cruiser. However, I once make a U turn on highway and use small area of the shoulder where there is sand and the bike just slides. I do not use "pushing down underneath" method and the bike only scares me, but does not drop me. Since then, I would rather hang-off than "pushing down underneath".
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That is a really cool experiment 363Rider!
I didn't know the brain worked that way.Yes, it was new to me too when I first saw it at Singapore Science Center-- their experiment set up was better than our thumbs.
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Just after the snow went a few weeks back, I made a walk in the park keeping the VW all the time. Very cool to observe birds in the sky while not looking at them, etc. I also stepped in lots of dog turd because I couldn't make it out from the gravel and mud
Shifting my view from near to far constantly saves my shoes 
Recently, I see an experiment on how the eye sees things in motion. Try this, place your right thumb pointing up in front of you at arm's length while you are looking in its direction but focus far behind it (in wide view). Keep your eye direction and focus unchanged, but swing your arm slowly in a an arc to the right until you cannot see the thumb because it is just out of peripheral vision. At this position, hook and unhook your thumb and now (in wide view) you will see the thumb is moving but you cannot see it earlier when it is not hooking. Some how our eyes can see things in motion better than in static. No wonder with wide view, you can see the bird in the sky while stepping on the dog turd--me too.
I didn't know the brain worked that way.
Shifting my view from near to far constantly saves my shoes 
What Would Have Caused The Fatal Accident In Macau Gp?
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Very sad to hear this bad news from Macau GP 3 days ago, and wondering if there was mechanical/electrical failure such as bad electronic damper that would have caused this fatal accident. Seems there was long braking with unexpected line. Appreciate very much for any comment on your observation.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9CbMwdo0-w