Balistic
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Posts posted by Balistic
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do i detect some rivalry?
No but until he takes the point lead from me It's Will and Stoney.
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Hi All
I had another great weekend at the WSMC winning all five of my races and walking away holding the club points lead. I started the weekend with the worst case scenario for me having worked at Laguna Seca Thursday and Friday then driving back and finally getting home at 3 am Saturday morning. I went to the track with three hours of sleep and new suspension on both ends with no settings. Being ragged out from driving and trying to think and ride well enough to find the set-up was a daunting task. I got down to 1:25.1 on Saturday after three sessions and I was just too tired to go any faster.
On Sunday morning I felt good and was ready to ride. Practice went well and I was ready to race.
My first race was 750 MP and I got off in fourth and was up to second going through turn two behind Sky Girard. I could have gotten by him but decided to follow and let him set the pace. Going into one at the start of the third lap Curtis Adams came by going into one and I decided it was time to go. I drafted him down the straight as best I could and waited for him to shut off. I dove by Adams going into one and got Girard at the exit. I put my head down and pulled out a lead for the win.
Second up was F-40 and as I was on the pre grid I saw Mark Watts on his RC30 and thought it would be a snooze of a race. The only other rider being close was Ulrich and he has gone to F-50. At the start Sam Carnabucci got off in the lead and I decided to follow him. He was going good and on the third lap going through turn eight he tucked the front about two bike lengths in front of me and was down. What happened next was the scariest racing moment ever for me. His bike high centered and the rear came around, as soon as the bike was sideways it hooked up and highsided itself into a barrel roll. I was too close, in his draft in fact at 140 mph. And when the bike rolled I got sucked into its draft and went wide into the debris field and hit a couple pieces of his bike narrowly missing bike by a foot or two. I came back around and he was up and walking so I continued on with no red flag to the win.
The third race was the one for me. I have a second and a third in 650 SB this year behind Chris Siglin and Marc Palazzo. And last month Siglin didnt race but attended and told me that having just attended Spencers school he would have something for me in March. I got a good start and was in second behind Siglin with Palazzo third on the first lap. I took the lead into three on the second lap started doing 1:22s and pulling away from the battle for second. My last lap was my best of the day at 1:22.3 and in fact a personal best and a mere four tenths off the pro record of 1:21.9.
Fourth was 750 SS and Siglin decided to run in it I guess to beat me. He has the team Suzuki 750 he won last year in the talent search and it is fast! I knew I would have to go from the flag and did. Doing consistent 1:22s on DOTs and pulling away for a wire to wire win. My best lap at 1:22.5.
My last race was F-2 and Palazzo wanted to beat me bad. I got off in the lead and put down three good laps in the 22s and pulled out, but the tires had one race on them already and it was hot 89 degrees. I took it down a notch and kept an eye on his crew. I could see them getting excited and I knew he was there. He came past into one on the sixth lap and I followed him. Taking the white flag and then the lead into one and putting down the best lap I could and coming up about three bike lengths in front for the win!
Will Eikenberry WSMC # 87 CCS Pacific # 63
Thanks to all who helped me, Keith Code and the California Superbike School, Kawasaki, Dunlop, Silkolene, AGV Sports, KBC Helmets, Lockhart Phillips, Sharkskinz, Elka Shocks, GP Suspension, Factory Pro Tuning, Graves Motorsports, Mackie's, L&L Motorsports, Yin's TKD, Stompgrip.
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Pretty amazing how well the superbike guys (stoney and will) have been doing....
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scrip...asp?insert=8746
Excuse me but that's Will and Stoney.
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C/S is the way the bike turns, you may not notice it at lower speeds but it's still the way the bike works plain and simple.
When you are going slow you steer keep the balance, That is C/Sing. By turning the wheel twards the off balance the bike leans the other way. If you were falling to the right you turn right and the bike will lean left, same as if you were going faster.
Will
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Hello to everybody.
I bought a pair of slicks which I was thinking of using after my June's sessions of Levels 1&2 ,but now I'm thinking, should I show up with the slicks for the lessons or would I be better off with some plain soft tyres . Do you think the slicks are too much to ask for levels 1 &2 ??
From Athens Greece
Have a nice day
Telis
slicks are fine as long as it's not raining.
Will
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For a moment there I thought it was going to be about how being physically fit with help your cornering ability as well.
Ballstic, you are absolutely correct, if you hammer the brakes in a turn you are looking at a wad up in short order ABS equipped or not, but nobody does that.
The difference between a lock up and release by the pilot and one done by the ABS is the difference between perhaps tenths of a second and thousands of a second. A pilot will tell you the front end went away instantly where as the ABS will back off the brakes just enough to let the rubber grab again before the lean angle goes to an extreme beyond what the tire can catch and hold.
The reason I felt like I had to define ABS is because people do think the brakes will not lock the wheels and it's not true. If a rider thought that and felt invincible on the brakes in corners that would be a bad thing. The wheel will lock for just long enough to put you on the ground if you were leaned over much.
The speed of the electronics is ever increasing but the mechanical parts still take time to operate.
One other point is that many of the ABS systems will not lock the wheel again after being activated until you release the brake and it resets. What that means is you won't have all the brake power you had until you modulate the lever. That would be a bad thing in racing. You just don't have time to do let the system reset, you need brakes now and hard. The problem most racers have now is keeping the rear down not the front from locking. Other than a cold tire or snapping the brake on before the front tire is loaded the real benefit to a racer would be offset by the liability of having the system release some of the brake force when it was most needed.
That being said I totally agree ABS is going to cut down on accidents but there is no replacement for riding skill and it would be a mistake to get complacent about learning braking skill because you ride a bike with ABS.
Will
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ABS= Anti Lock Brakes is a complete misnomer. The only way an ABS system can work is for it to sense that wheel speed has changed (locked or slowed significantly), this means locked up and started to skid. Not all systems are the same speed in the computer or the mechanical bits but they will lock before they unlock.
If you hammer the brake in a turn enough to activate the ABS you will most likely be on the ground in short order. For general use it's a great thing, but understanding how it works is necessary to using it properly.
Will
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I'm curious to hear from an instructor on this one; using the rear brake to settle the front end on acceleration out of a corner. Have I translated the situation correctly? Any RACE instructors care to give away a secret?
This is one of two ways to control wheel spin. You could let off or stall on the gas and get the rear traction back. Or with the rear brake leave the throttle setting the same and use rear brake to slow the wheel down and get the traction back. All of the current traction control on cars is based on using the brake to slow the spinning tire. Audi took it one step further and uses the inside wheel brakes to help turn the car. For me I just use the throttle. For the most part this tech for bikes came from dirt track Harley's that didn’t' carburate too well so to keep the motor running good the rear brake was a better tool. I haven't to a national dirt track in a few years but the last on I went to was under the lights and several of the guys were running the rear brake hard enough to make it glow red leaving the turns.
Will
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whew...well, it's done.
i packed in the program...no racing this year. after a long season of doin' it myself, i was longing for the relaxed atmosphere i enjoyed at track days. i was preparing an endurance effort in conjunction with my sprint effort when i saw last year's bills.
bottom line? it would cost another 50% or so to run this year. i'm too young to have a coronary.
So then we should see you at a lot of schools this year?
Will
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Yeah I remember one fast guy at a national meeting who was putting grease on his rear disc to stop the thing from locking up
It is true that many pro's use the rear brake. It is also true that most crew chiefs make the rear brake all but inoperable. It's more of crutch than a tool. There are exceptions to that but most of them would be using it off the turn not into or through it.
Will
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quick turning is this a case of "flicking" counter steering faster so as to achieve lean angle quicker.
one fast swift motion.
Turning is changing the direction the bike is going, and doing it quicker is quick turning.
There is only two things to manage to change the speed of turning.
#1. is how far you turn the bars.
#2. is how fast you turn the bars.
It's not very complicated but is a lot to deal when the bike starts to turn if your not ready for it.
Will
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Will,
Have to agree. Under normal braking, my goal is to completely remove/reduce the braking force from the handle bars.
There are only a few corners that I use this steering transition (it is still the old CS). At Phillip Island, from turn 3 (240+kph) to turn 4 (90-100 kph) is an extreme braking approach. Also from Lukey Heights at MG corner as well.
Possibly you could use it at turn 11 at Laguna Seca?
Give it a go, I'm interested in your feedback.Cheers
Paul
Well one area were I don't spend much attention is turning. I can turn the bike faster than the frame and suspension can coop with. It's not an area I will change in my riding.
I will tell you that I am push/pull turner. I use both hands. I usually don't have any weight on the bars at the time I turn, just the steering input. For me if I don't remove the weight before the steering input I can't let go of the bars soon enough after it.
Will
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If the tires will hold there is no problem with lean angle. the world superbike guys scrape the sides of the Ducati's and hardly hang off at all. For myself the faster I get the less I am hanging off. I have pinched my knee against between the road and my fairing with the new 17" slicks, that's alot of traction and not much room for hanging off.
Will
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Well Hobot that post qualifies as rambling dribble in my book. The question was simple as should the answer have been. I have a pretty good understanding of how a bike works but I can't track with your explanation.
You talk about Body Steering as though it by itself turns the bike. All B/S does is change the CG and in so doing the bike reacts with C/S to stabilize, it's no more complicated than that.
As for dampers, The damper is there to quell the rider's inputs into the steering. There aren't any sport bikes that will shake there heads without a riders hands on the bars. I have seen numerous riders ejected from shaking bikes and the bike stabilizes and continues on.
Will
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To answer the original question, steering input changes lean angle. Once you are leaned, the bike turns on its own because of the shape of the tyre. If you have turned in correctly and are following the "one steering change per corner" rule, then you will only steer again at the exit. Mid corner, make sure you keep your arms loose and let the front find its own equilibrium. I think fastfreddie is right in that it is actually pointing slightly inward, but it doesn't really matter, just relax and leave it alone until you need to change something.
The thing that steers the bike trail. The shape of the tire can and does have an effect on how steering feels but not weather or not it steers. If you had a square tire the bike would still steer, as well one that was a triangle would steer. They would feel dramatically different but that is the rider and we are talking about the bike here.
Will
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hi,,,do you counter steer just to get the bike leaned over then tilt the bars back.. or are you actually countersteering throughout the whole turn.. thanks
I think what you are asking is do you need to steer the bike through the turn, NO. The trail will point the front wheel the direction it needs to go after you release the steering input. If there is something going on with the bike it is possible you will need to keep pressure on the bars, but that is an indicator you need to find out what the problem is. Low front tire pressure is one of the most common causes.
Will
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Balistic,
You write: "enter a corner at a speed I can maintain throughout the turn. I don't try to accelerate just get the gas on and not let the bike slow". Would that be true for a long sweeper like the Carousel @ Watkins Glen?
Kevin
NO. That was an explanation of a general plan, not a specific turn. In that turn because it decreases looses banking and elevation at the end you can enter faster than you can go through. I will get the throttle on at first but then stall on it and let the bike slow as I go down the elevation. Then close to the bottom I will start to roll it on.
Will
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Firstly; this is still ?counter-steering? just with a slight twist.
This transition works especially well when you need to steer the bike after hard braking (ie: a hairpin after a long straight).
I use the pressure of my arms on the handlebars from braking, to pre-load the pressure I want to use to counter-steer for the corner (any excessive pressure to what I need is shifted to the legs).
As I get to my turning point, I release the brake and I also release the pressure on the outside handlebar, which now leaves pressure only on the inside handlebar (counter-steering). So basically I don?t press the inside handlebar, I release the pressure on the outside handlebar to steer.
Enjoy!
Have you ever tried holding your body up with your back and releasing all the weight off the bars?
If you can do it the bike will calm down and stay straight on the brakes but you will be back to plain old CSing then.
Will
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Well you are asking for a very subjective answer that only a GP or Superbike could give you. I have just ridden the new 17s and they are amazing compared to the DOTs. I never rode the 16.5s but I can say Im still faster on DOTs than the slicks by about a half second and it should be the way. If I get the set-up right.
I know that doesn't answer your question but the set-up is the real deal. It's different from one to the other and at the level those guys are riding very small things become big issues fast.
Will
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Hi guy's
I will always try to enter a corner at a speed I can maintain throughout the turn. I don't try to accelerate just get the gas on and not let the bike slow.
It is the area just before the rear slides and just after the front has griped. The sweet spot.
Will
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How about this for a reason the bike wants to stand up in a turn. When you lean the contact patch moves from the center of the tire to the inside. As this happens the braking force starts to generate a turning force, it wants to pull the tire to the inside. This is what the rider must deal with by increasing the pressure on the bars. It is somewhat masked in trail braking as you are leaning the bike you are releasing the brakes and the force while geometrically increasing is dynamically stagnant.
Does the bike turn better with the brake on? NO. The bike does turn better with the front compressed so turning just as the brakes are released is the best it will turn.
will
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I just used one of the new superstock 17" slicks this last weekend and I loved it. It's a 195 and we put it on a 5.5" wheel. You just never know until you try.
I also heard a roomer that the new 208 race tire is coming as a 190.
Will
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#1. Get a dirt bike and ride it. You will lose alot of the fear of the bike moving around, because a dirt bike never stops moving and they still go. So the sensation of sliding and the bikes reaction to it will become normal for you. It will take time, so go easy and do a school if you can find one in your area. The MSF does dirt school.
#2. Don't! getting over the fear of what you can't see around the corner is good way to hit the ground, an RV, dear or any manner of thing in the road. Drive as far as you need to, to do track days.
Wil
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Getting the bike off the edge of the tire will give better grip. hanging off is just the way to use less lean angle. so yes and no. Hanging off doesn't give more grip but it can create a condition that does.
Will
Give it a go, I'm interested in your feedback.
Css Team Winners
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
well fred that again may be the other way around. you should look at the WSMC sit off the Willow site and decide for yourself what I mean.