Dylan Code
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Posts posted by Dylan Code
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Of the tracks that we go to currently:
Barber in Alabama.
Phillip Island in Australia.
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If students are doing the exercise, we tell them to use the brakes if they are in too fast but many find they get in too slow when doing it.
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Sonoma. More technical, more variety. Ride Laguna if you never have before because it's a bucket list item.
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At steep leans, you simply can't support the majority of your body weight with your inside leg.
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For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Pressing on the peg will push back at you with the same pressure you give it. The side with less mass move more--that's the rider. He pushes himself away from the corner.
Training riders by campfire stories and what they heard other people talk about is what keeps a good school in business.
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CSS coach Mike Pesicka used to work for Dave Moss and is a great source of data. Corner him at a school and he will answer your questions.
DC
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Regarding the quick turn, let's consider a car: go into a turn in a car at a spirited pace and turn the wheel in very sloooowly. See what you get. You get the same thing on a motorcycle if you lean it in very slowly.
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I'm not used to hearing a tire groan, but I often hear the change in RPM when the bike is leaned. Maybe you are hearing that...
One one hand you say the "tires are working much harder when quick turning the bike" and on the other you say: "I believe you must load the front tire to get maximum turning."
Don't get discouraged because Keith says in Twist 2:
Pg. 59 For steering, you want weight on the front to get that “bite and turn” action. From this perspective, you can get on the gas too early, before the bike has finished getting the extra turning advantage from the loaded front.
Pg. 59 Weight on the front end helps the bike “hook” into turns. Getting on the gas too early starts the bike on a constant radius arc before you get it pointed.
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I imagine the physical limit is pretty darned high. On the other hand, what's the point of turning faster and faster if you:
A. Don't need to turn that quickly
B. Scare your passenger half to death (sorry, thought we were talking about street riding for a second), or
C. Turn so quickly that you can't set your lean angle properly and either bounce up and down or scare your own self silly and blow the rest of the corner.
Lately, I've been seeing how SLOWLY I can turn and find I'm more comfortable leaning slowly and therefore I can lean further (carry more speed?) into the corners. But maybe that's just me.
Your devil's advocate points are well taken. However the quick turn technique is presented to the classes as "turn as quickly as possible for the demands of the situation".
A sloooooow turn in requires more lean angle and therefore is less safe.
I'm going to be honest and say that it seems you are trolling...
If your post is sincere, my apologies.
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So Dylan, I'm looking at your body/foot position picture, and I see an imaginary line between the front tire and your knee, AND I see your foot at least 3"-4" above the pavement. At least it looks that way in the picture. So I'm thinking that's 3"-4" further down a rider could put their foot pegs. I know your not riding a touring bike, but why be more scrunched up and uncomfortable than you NEED to be?
The bike is not leaned over all the way in the photo. If the pegs were lower, they would provide less available lean angle. Also a heavier rider with more cornering force would lower the bike's ride height and make the pegs hit easier, not to mention what bumps would do to the suspension.
I hope I understood your question correctly.
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Looks like Lorenzo does something similar to what you see in the video.
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Would you say that it is best to lock yourself to the tank with both knees rather than drag a boot or put it pointing outward as you are on the brakes and about to turn in?
No I would not say that. I would say that it's best to lock on with your outside knee, which we see most riders doing. Do what's comfortable with the inside leg: dangle, on peg, knee to tank, knee swung out, etc.
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Great point Dylan, that had never struck me before.
Have we finally come to a consensus as to what exactly the dangling achieves? Is it useful in the wet as you turn in on the brakes?
Not for me. It's speculation at this point. All I can say is it would change the location of the combined C of G for a slightly more favorable orientation while trailing in (more upright), but the advantage being very slight.
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I suppose the "dangling foot" riders have pretty much thrown a big curve at the people who consider weighting the inside peg as useful.
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Dylan,
From looking at the video it seems that you have little or no weight on the inside foot. It seems natural that with little or no weight that the entire leg would be relaxed and can feel the ground better. This has been a topic that has puzzled me for some time even after attending the school.
Can you please clarify the weight distribution and change between the time you are upright with 0 lean and at full lean for a corner.
Ah jeez. That's tough to specifically answer because I think it will vary depending on corner type, bike type, rider fit to bike, tank grips or not, and the list goes on. When I was on track at Willow yesterday I paid attention to the amount of weight I was supporting with my inside leg and there definitely was weight being supported but I would not say it was a significant amount. I would say more than "light" and less than "moderate" as a very rough, vague and useless description.
I would agree that you would have better feel with a more relaxed leg, though bar feel would be far more important.
Zero lean would be less weight than leaned, for certain.
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No problem. We are learning more and more as we go and I'm very happy to discuss.
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I have other videos of people riding and they have more blinks and eye movements.
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Basically yes.
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I thought they dragged the boot as a sort of crutch so that under hard braking and as they were tipping it is, the foot in contact with the ground would act as some sort of support and keep them from falling off if the front end started to give out a bit?
Where can i read/find this list about body position, if you please?
I don't think the foot will do any support. With any weight, the foot would be suddenly pulled back and hurt considerably.
On the body position list, I think Keith is working on a published version. Not sure when he will have it ready but it's in the works.
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Interesting that you should mention Marquez, Dylan.I was watching the circuit of the Americas GP race today and made the following observations.
1. Some riders put the ball of the foot area on the outside peg when leaned over.Others put the arch area, the kinda crease between the heel part and toe part in a race boot on the pegs.Some use the area a little behind the ball of the foot.
Also the foot is slightly turned away to the outside, kinda pointing at the sky when leaned over.
Is any one method better? Or is it just a matter of preference as long as you have a secure hold?
2. As they are approaching the turn and are doing the hard braking while upright, some slide their foot along the tarmac [ Rossi, Bradl ] while Lorenzo will put his inside leg way out in an exaggerated triangle [ The triangle of light i believe it is called ].The ball of his foot is on the peg and his foot is turned toward the corner at about a 45 degree angle. [ I think this is the correct position ]
Then, as they lean the bike over the guys who drag their boot on the tarmac will fold their leg in one motion on to the peg and settle into the hang off position.
Lorenzo [ who already has the ball of his foot on the peg ] will bring his knee toward the bike as the bike leans over ie - His knee is dragging on the ground, and comes closer to him as the bike leans more and more.
Furthermore, the heel of the boot on the inside leg will be touching the bike....the part which the peg attaches to.Therefore both feet will be turned away by some amount.
I have not observed the Dylanesque outside of the foot on the peg tilt on anyone [ these two GP's past ] and was wondering.
Good observations. Firstly if I was on a MotoGP bike, I'm pretty sure my position would be different than on an S1000. How it would be different I don't know but I do know that it is different on a very small GP style Moriwaki when I have the chance to ride them.
These variations in riding style really tell us one important thing: there are options. It also shows that riders connect to the bikes in different ways but the overall posture is similar for nearly all GP riders.
When talking riding position you have to consider the variables: rider's body size, rider's inherent style, bike size, bike proportions, bike shape (tank, seat), footpeg size/grip/profile/width, and the list goes on. Body position should be guided by things like comfort, stability and good joint alignment where possible.
Keith came up with a list called the "57 Elements of Body Position" that addresses virtually all aspects of a rider's position on the bike. Angle of foot is just one facet that also has a chain reaction with the other parts of the body if changed--which could be positive or negative depending on the rider's current body position package.
Regarding the variations of leg dangling with the MotoGP riders--we see Lorenzo not doing it, Rossi -the inventor- doing it less, and just about everyone else doing it here and there. No one really understands its relative usefulness and that includes me. All I know is it changes the center of mass very slightly and that may be enough to help under hard braking at lap record pace.
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Dylan;
Great shot! Do I spy your index finger trailing it in a bit here?
Rain
Yes, I trail the brakes in most corners. I usually release fully by about 1/2 way down to my eventual lean for that particular turn.
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looks like there is minimal hangoff... i might be wrong thou~
And the footpegs + footwork, kinda reminds me of the vertical bamboo climb they taught is in BMT ~
This is a photo from me riding that weekend and my typical body position.
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Hi Dylan,
I see that in the turns with regard to your inside foot, you do not keep the ball of the foot on the peg but the outside part on the peg and the ball of the foot kind of raised at an angle and touching the part the peg is attached to?
Can you explain why you do this as opposed to the traditional ball of the foot on the peg in the turns?
It's a habit I got into early on. Maybe it had something to do with the little GP bikes I rode when I was a pesky teenager.
Have a look at this picture of Marc Marquez and tell me what you see there.
No Brakes And 4Th Gear Only At Sears Point
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Just read a little further in Twist II and your answer will be there:
You get the gas on at the earliest possible moment in a corner. This does not mean at the apex, right before the apex or right after the apex, or at any particular part of the turn, it means as soon as possible.
To meet the throttle standard, steering is completed before you start to get it on.