Bullet
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Posts posted by Bullet
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Hello,
I am attending Brands Hatch schools on May 10th and 11th, and will be riding my own bike. What preparations will be required for the day??
For example, do mirrors need to be removed or just taped up?? Lights taped up?? License plate removed or taped up ok??
If I have to remove my mirrors for example, would I need to bring my own tools??
Advice appreciated...
Hi mate,
OK, what you need to do..? Well, step 1, make sure it's roadworthy, tyres are ok, chain, levers and footpegs those kind of things are all ok, not about to fall off, etc, etc. You'd be suprised, but these are the things that will be checked by the guys on the day.
So, as for mirrors, either take them off, bend them in, or they'll be taped up for you on the day. Lights don't need to be taped up, niether does your number plate, though if you don't want it in your shots (and they also go up on the web), then you'd need to do that aspect yourself, (again, tape or remove).
You can bring your own tools if you can on the bike(mirrors are usually just an Allen key), or if you ask Gloom nicely, you can leverage ours, though make sure you bring em back... ;-)
Hope that covers it mate.
Bullet
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Bobby,
Looks like you lost the front and might have been slowing (the camera bike seemed to be gaining ground).
What lap was it, and how many turns on that side fo the tire? Was it dramatically faster than the lap before? What was the temp of the day, and any wind (cool wind really cools tires off if one pulls over).
CF
Hi bobby,
Sorry to hear about your off mate, at least you're ok, you'll ride again, and get past this.
I watched the Video, and it's tricky to tell, you did look like you had a lot of lean angle to me. If you were on the throttle, it does have cold tyres written all over it really, if not, then perhaps some weight on the inside bar? I noted your pics in your other thread though, and to be honest, I wasn't seeing lots of weight on the bars, but you'd know better than us..? How old were the tyres? Do you use warmers? Done many trackdays before? How many heat cycles they been through?
Bullet
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can sum one tell me do u look into the corner first then turn or turn then look
i look and turn am i doing it right or wrong ?If you don't look before you turn, how will you know where you're going?
It'll be a nice suprise.
Bullet
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thanks for your help guys
i will try that it all sounds simple but wen i try it all goes wrong like going two slow or then going two fast . the little corners catch me out ive got the dvd i will get the book at sum pointYou'll get to do this on Level 1 in the next couple of weeks... Nothing like waiting for the understanding of why before trying to apply I always find..
Bullet
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Ai, you pedal alright for an old codger!
Bullet
Bullet, speak English, will ya? LOL
I think you'll find old boy, that I most definitely speak the Queens english, not quite so sure what slang you lot speak myself, but I try and keep up.
Please find definition of codger.. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/codger 
Bullet
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What makes a good student? Just look at my profile page...
Ai, you pedal alright for an old codger!
Welcome back as well. Where ya been...?
Bullet
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since this is a forum for riders that go to tracks for racing or having fun then this subject will be very important.
now i am not going to explain the art of passing, i am hoping that on of the guys can illustrate it for me.
when i am racing passing an over lapped rider is very dangerous ( if dose not see the blue flag or do not give a f&%k about it ) they are unpredictable, if you fallow them you will see that they do not have a pattern for turning they turn early or late, for fast guys you can see or determine there turning points and you may be mistaking there turning mark buy 5 feet max.
my question is about passing fast guys, every rider in a race has another rider that is about as fast as him some times slow but he has a better start and now he is in front of me, he is riding a defensive line and i know i am faster than him because when i get to the apex i have to hit the brakes not to hit him, so it becomes a drag race to the next turn.
i tried to pass from the outside but he kept pushing me out more and more till i hit the piano and it gets a bit slippery so i have to back off the throttle.
any tips?
How I deal with that is you need to drive off the turn so much quicker, and get yourself up in the inside by the next turn. So if your competitor is slow mid turn, I try and turn in later, get the bike stood up and squared off earlier, and get the bike stood up and driving earlier than your compromised friend who's slow mid turn.
Trying to go around the outside is almost always going to end with you getting squeezed, unless you're brave, so following this advice, as you're counterpart runs wide, you'll be able to get out tighter, but crucially faster.
The other I find is you'll usually be quicker at some point than your racing counterpart somewhere? I'm often better at one spot than another racer, and perhaps vice versa.
Bullet
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The rain? I don't think anyone likes riding in the rain,
I like racing in the rain, as everyone hates it, and is scared..........
Bullet
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Hey Guys,
Got level I done, learnt a lot and thoughorly enjoyed it. I already have level II booked for 17th May @ Silverstone.
Whilst I learnt a lot, i was not happy with "my" performance... I thought i was hitting 60-70% sucess in the drills. With that i mean... 30% of the time, I got my entry speed too high and went wide, or didnt turn as quick as i should in the quick turn drills, etc
I still have 3 weeks to practice on the road, but wondered if it was expected to have this up to 80-90% before starting level II ?
Am i being too critical? I know these things take time, practice and effort, just wondered if I am being a bit slow?
Thanks
Paul
PS On level I in the later drills we had breaks and gears, but I found it really helpfull to stick with the earlier drill rules and use only one gear / no breaks... (all though i did feel a bit slow down the straights), is that ok ?
Yeap, you're being too critical. The application of the drills is more important than speed, as you only have a certain amount of attention. You don't need to have the inital drills upto 80-90%, we're going to work on those, though, 2 step drill does indeed get built upon, so keep on working on this, as it's very, very key. level 2 is all mainly visuals with a physical drill thrown in for good measure.
Oh, and going back to one gear no brakes is a very good idea if you cannot give the drills the right attention, we often do this with students who is getting carried away a little a looking a little unruly.
Hope that helps
Bullet
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Seriously though, do you think the ego a hinderance to good riding or an asset?
I think to race at any level really competitively, you need to have self belief, and at world class level, it would lead to nigh on arrogance I'd suggest. Arrogance/Ego Hinderance? I suspect only in getting on with people, not in your racing results.
Bullet
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Well, what a fantastic day it was!!! yup bit nervous but after 5 mins of the first track session, they went. Then got concentrating on the drills! Instructing was excellent, and i learnt a lot, the track sessions went way too quick! Wish i had more time to practise on track. Ill have to do it on the road (safely of course)
Cant wait to come back on the 17th May for level II
Cant remember the name of my coach, but he was fantastic, gave me good advice and feedback. Bald chap, mediterainian looking (looking at my photos says hatter??) on the back. If a coach can say thanks a lot from Paul on the 23rd as i didnt see him at the end.
Hi mate,
Really glad you enjoyed your day, it was great weather (which always helps of course), and the new Stowe circuit and facilities are dramatically improved to say the least.
Your coach would be Trotter, Aka Jet, who's the Chief riding coach and a top bloke to boot. Mediteranean he is not though, he just has had a few holidays of late.
I'll pass on your comments and remarks.Bullet
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I wanted to turn the question around, so I wanted to make a new thread to not confuse the other one... seeing as I'm signed up for Level 2 at VIR in a few weeks...What are the component pieces that make a good coach, in this sport, or really any other for that matter?
Here is one piece that has to be there, and pretty darn fundamental: observing. And you might think to yourself, "Cobie, that's pretty obvious dude." Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But that ability to simply observe what is happening in front of you, this is not a skill of minor importance.
What do you guys see as another skill in a good coach? (or comments on the above).
Best,
Cobie
What are the component pieces that make a good student, in this sport, or really any other for that matter?
There's a number of coaches on the board here, so what can a student to to make your day!?
Best,
Steve
How interesting. Is this an attempt to get us to say what really pisses us off about certain students?
Well, I think it's probably fair to start by saying that the coaches all have different personalities, (obviously), have different coaching experiences, have different backgrounds in terms of racing/speed, etc, etc, so there ideal student does vary a lot as well, but in an attempt to try and generalise it a little of some over all things i personally enjoy in working with a student, we can use that as a starter for 10, and others can chime in when they see this thread.So... here's my list of things that make s a great student.... : -
- Don't think you need to be a racing god, a trackday hero, or an aspiring racing weekend warrior. You can be a normal road rider of any level, and often we get incredibly great results from the most modest of riding abilities.
- Try, and I say this to those that are new, realising it can be hard, try and get a good nights sleep, try and keep of to many beers or whatever it is that floats your boat, it'll impede your ability to learn for probably the first half of the day.
- Arrive early, get yourself well prepared for the day ahead. It's a long day, rushing into the circuit 10 mins before the days starts is really not a fab plan for either you as the student, (sigining on, getting your kit checked, us checking your bike, you being late, can make our lives harder as well as your own).
- Come with an open mind, be prepared to take on the observation and input you get from the coaches. In your mind you're close to Valentino, that body position mid turn is awesome for those pics, that weaving mid corner is so damn exciting, but all joking aside, if your coach advises you it's not doing you much favours, take it pretty much as read they're advising you for your benefit.
-Don't think we have a magic pouch of pixie dust in our school kit bag. By just coming to the school, sitting in the seminars, going on track and progressing through the 4 levels wil not automatically turn you into a riding god. Much as we'd love to be able to sell you that one, I'm afraid it takes lots of dedication, practice and work to refine the skills we coach you on when you go away from us. You're dedication will be rewarded though.
- Don't have an agenda, arriving having done many trackdays or other schools perhaps, thinking, well, I need to work on this aspect of my riding, and this alone, (usually body position by the way!), and just thinking, well, I don't need to work on any of these other aspects of the course, I know it all, I'm all good thanks. As essentially, you'll get frustrated, and we'll make little progress. I'm almost certain everyone can improve all aspects of their riding to some degree, arrive with that in mind, see what we can do for you, change or ammend, and you'll get a lot of out it. Remember, we coach all levels of riders, novices to world class level!
- If you're not having a the day you'd hoped for, you're not perhaps engaging/connecting with your coach, mention it, talk to the Cheif Riding Coach or your seminarist . We're very aware of it ourselves as coaches, sometimes it happens, we won't take offence if you want to swap and try another coach, we often reccomend it ourselves, so don't think you can't do that yourselves. We want you to get the very most from your day.
-Please don't crash, it's not ideal for you, and niether is it for us. So remember it's a school, ride at a level you can learn at, not thinking you need to try and stuff your mate up at the next race meeting or trackday.
- Last but not least ( and this a personal goal for me at a day at the school as well, baring in mind this is my vacation time), have fun guys.
Hope this serves as a good starter for 10.
Bullet
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Anyhow, I look forward to the school, and the track experience (YAY Paddock Hill!!)
Oh I DO have a school question...
BULLET - can you coach me for one of those days to make up for last year when our time together was cut short???
(I say ONE of those days, because I hope that I have different coaches on the 2 days, to get as much different perspectives of my riding as possible. I thin kthat that is a good plan, is it?!?! Or is it better to have one coach for both days??)
Hi mate,
So you think I owe ya, is that what your saying? Inferring..? LOL? Interesting thoughts, though I'm afraid I cannot coach ya at Brands, as I'm not going to be there mate. As i'm a Norvern'er, it's a long, long way from me, and I can't take the journey, well, not on the way back, and then go back to work.
Call me soft, whatever, but I guess i'll just have to owe ya! Let us know how ya go mate, be very pleased to know to be honest.
Bullet
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hello bullet may 10 brands then level 2 june . i only push a little bit and pull a little bit just feels so funny i think im going too fall of sum times
do u do a level for getting sum bottle to go round corners Well you'll feel it for yourself in a few weeks time then, so lets leave it till then.
We don't sell bottle am afraid, though i prefer to think we give people confidence and skills, which is way more important I assure you.
Seeya soon, though I won't be at Brands am afraid personally, my friends and colleagues will definitely look after you.
Bullet
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me being a pretty new biker and not very fast
ive been going up and down lanes where i live at the weekends . ive lost count of how many times ive been up and down trying the counter steer . just wondering how far can i push or pull on the handle bars ????? one good thing has happened my chicken stipes has gone a little bit over but my left turns r pretty pants cannnot seen two get the bike to lean with meHi mate,
When you doing your school with us? You'll get to learn a great deal about this when you come, we have an off track drill so you can completely understand it, feel it for yourself under expert guidance.
You don't need to push/pull too far, the bars only need to move about 20mm say, if you push the bike to the lock stops for example, it'll fall over.
Bullet
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Do you offer pictures for extra charge? Or could we bring our own equipment to take pic's? Sorry for all the questions, just too excited i guess lol, Thanks.
Again, i can onlt talk for the UK, so we'll need to confirm for US, but we have our own photographer where you can purcahse pictures of your day, and you can also do onboard video this year. Yes, you can also bring your own equipment, though as Cobie covered in another thread, you need to be sure it's not going to impact on your day with undertaking the drills and doing your de-brief's with coaches, as opposed to messing about with your kit.
Bullet
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So going through a turn with a steep lean angle, you will need to roll on the throttle harder to keep your line.
But if you enter at a more shallow lean angle, you use less throttle to hold the same line.
Seems contradictory to me. I thought if you are at a steeper lean angle you can't use as much throttle. Thoughts?
Andrew,
Just so I'm clear, what is your exact question here: that you can/can't use more throttle at steeper lean angles, or is it holding the line?
CF
Let me try to paint a clearer picture.
Both riders enter a long sweeping corner using the same racing line.
Rider A enters with moderate lean angle and holds the throttle at a steady 20%.
Rider B enters with severe lean angle and holds the throttle steady at 20%.
Given that Rider B is using the same throttle position (20%) as Rider A, I would imagine that Rider B's line would tighten up as Rider B is at a steeper lean angle.
Therefore Rider B needs to use more throttle to hold his line, say 30% throttle.
So that leads to the conclusion that you need to use more throttle at a steeper lean angle to hold the same line.
Or am I missing something here?
Hi mate,
You have some confusion here for sure.
Consider if you will for a second your scenarios, why would rider A and Rider B's lean angle by different? There are few factors that can affect this, but the largest is entry speed into the turn. So in your scenario, what you're effectively saying is that you want to apply more throttle with the rider that's going considerably faster? Clearly the phsyics in this scenario are completely the wrong way around? Surely the slower rider can apply more throttle earlier, because their entry speed is slower, than the faster rider?
If you have TW2, I'd definitely reccomend re-reading the section on throttle control (pages 6 through 9) and lines (pages 18 - 23.).
Bullet
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Hi Bullet
Unfortunately due to the delays with the volcano i'm still stuck on the rig and with the backlog of helicopters i have no chance of making it for Thursday
I have been in contact with Lynn in your office and she has moved my date to June which isgood news, a weight of my mind.
Meanwhile i'll get busy with the twists and the DVD
See you in June
Colin
Hi mate,
I'm sorry to hear this, we've also had challenges with a school that was meant to be run in turkey this last weekend, which due to the same problem had to be postponed as the guys couldn't get to Turkey.
Have a good read through the books, and I'll see you in June.
Bullet
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Hi mate,
The only difference I notice is that twins rev a little slower, so usually when I move from say a school bike or my 600 racer to my RSV racer, is that it takes a bigger (longer) handful to get it to blip, is only a little different, but there is a slight difference. You need to be more mindful that it's much easier to lock up a twin than a four, certainly big twins, so blipping or having a slipper clutch is ever more crucial. You won't have that issue I doubt on your wifes bike, but you get the concept.
Bullet
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I did Level 1 at Rockingham last year which was fantastic. The morning was just a revelation (in the dry) and the afternoon was good, but the rain (torrential) dampened more than just the track.
I've realised the only thing holding me back from immediately booking my Level 2 at Brands in May is the thought that it might rain for the whole day. Now I know you guys are good but even you can't control the weather!
What are your guys thoughts on doing the drills in the wet and in your experience, how does this affect the students?
If any of you guys have done CSS in the rain, what did you think of the experience - good? Bad?
Thanks in advance,
Paul
Mate,
You live in the UK, course there is a good chance it'll rain.
Seriously though, we usually get no crashes on a day when it's wet allday, (changeable conditions are where we have issues normally) and as Cobie and Rainman put across, we get just as good results in the rain as we do in the dry.
Think of it this way, you might be out oneday when it rain,s doing a school will give you the confidence that you can ride around without a problem and get home safely.
Am sure you'll get some students chiming in at some point.
Bullet
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Thanks, one more quick question. Will i have to flush my coolent? like take the antifreze out and put water in the coolent system? Thanks.
No, you don't need to do that, only for race bikes (well in the UK anyway).
Bullet
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You seem to be asking, how can you steadily increase throttle throughout the turn without having to lean lower in order to stay on the line?
Seems like a good question to me, since physics would dictate that to maintain a constant radius arch through the turn you would have to lean lower and lower as you speed up. The other option though is that you maintain the lean angle but the radius of your line through the turn increases as you add speed. At severe lean angles, you should only be using enough throttle to create a subtle increase in speed, and so the increase in the radius of your line ends up being so subtle as to be basically imperceptible. Once you get to the exit of the turn, the radius of your line will get wider more progressively as you pour on the power and stand it up, so it flows quite naturally this way and leads to faster speed on the following straightaway.
Maybe the reason you feel you have to lean lower and lower is because you are turning in too early, causing you to run wide on the exit, and/or you are rolling on the throttle too aggressively or starting the roll-on too soon. Maybe try going in deeper, turning in later, and since throttle comes on after turn-in, that means the throttle would come on a bit later too.
excellent thoughts and viewpoint harnois!
Bullet
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So a few quick observations.
- Firstly, we'd not normally reccomend road tyre pressures for the track, despite it being cold, we'd still run lower pressures for the track by several PSI. Having higher pressures and several (even moderate laps), can bring the pressures up to high, and that greatly reduce the contact patch.
In your description of the charlies, left chicane, you seem to infer that you Apex'd and that is when you came back to gas (middle of the turn)? When the youd in this situation, where is the weight when off the gas, and where does it transfer to when you come back to gas? When you did Level 1, when should we ideally get back to gas? What's the application feel like?
It does sound from your description into the turn a little hot, lots of lean angle, no gas then back to too much gas with large lean angle to me. See if you can think through the questions, but we're getting to an answer.
Bullet
I did think about tyre pressures, but thought it would be too cold... Stock mine are 36/42 - what would you drop them to as a rule of thumb?
Thinking through your points, I may have gone in a little hot, leaned further than I was comfortable with and then rolled off the gas - SR1, this put too much weight on the front and so when I added throttle the back was unweighted therefore spun out.
OR
I turned in, rolled on the gas, was uncomfortable with the lean angle and rolled off the gas (SR1), only to reapply it a little further on. So, very unsmooth and really unsettling the bike.
Either way, totally at odds to rolling the throttle on evenly, smoothly and constantly...
I should have approached turn in point at a reasonable speed, put the bike smoothly but quickly over and then used a maintaining throttle through the turn.
I think I'm starting to understand my problem...
Ok, normal track pressures we'd reccomend would be around 31F, 30R, which are a good rule of thumb. If you'd done a good few laps, they would have come up very high at 41rear, (think a bit like a balloon), and your contact patch is greatly reduced for sure.
I'd say scenario one would be an excellent candidate, you have most of the weight on the front when you're off the gas, and if you have big lean angle, (possibly diminished tyre contact patch with pressures), and you go back to the throttle poorly and snatch at it a little, (i.e. a poor rollon), then you'd definitely be an excellent candidate for a lowside I'm afraid.
so just for clarity, try and stabilise the bike when you're bike is on it's line, by applying throttle rule No.1. Anything less than, i.e. too hot in, too hard an application is less than optimum, and relies pretty much solely on tyre grip and suspension at one end more than another.
Hope this makes it clear for you now. Understand it, modify your riding behaviour and get back on it (your bike), practising correct application. Oh, and dont' worry, we've all done this, I did it last year on my race bike on slicks.
too much lean angle in to hot, to hard an initial throttle on an off camber turn, result, me on my arse. Bullet
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So a few quick observations.
- Firstly, we'd not normally reccomend road tyre pressures for the track, despite it being cold, we'd still run lower pressures for the track by several PSI. Having higher pressures and several (even moderate laps), can bring the pressures up to high, and that greatly reduce the contact patch.
In your description of the charlies, left chicane, you seem to infer that you Apex'd and that is when you came back to gas (middle of the turn)? When the youd in this situation, where is the weight when off the gas, and where does it transfer to when you come back to gas? When you did Level 1, when should we ideally get back to gas? What's the application feel like?
It does sound from your description into the turn a little hot, lots of lean angle, no gas then back to too much gas with large lean angle to me. See if you can think through the questions, but we're getting to an answer.
Bullet
i look and turn am i doing it right or wrong ?
i will try that it all sounds simple but wen i try it all goes wrong like going two slow or then going two fast . the little corners catch me out ive got the dvd i will get the book at sum point
do u do a level for getting sum bottle to go round corners 
ive been going up and down lanes where i live at the weekends . ive lost count of how many times ive been up and down trying the counter steer . just wondering how far can i push or pull on the handle bars ????? one good thing has happened my chicken stipes has gone a little bit over 
Mid-corner Lean Angle With Increasing Throttle
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
The other thing is, as the bike leans further, the suspension becomes less, and less effective. Whilst you can get away with this riding issue because of lower speed and modern tyre grip, the reality is that increasing lean angle through a corner with throttle roll on indicates an issue with either in appropriate roll-on (timing, too much, etc, etc), of your line was wrong.
Whilst it may feel very exciting, and it's a comment I get from a lot of students that do this, it's bad technique all the same, and can get you into a lot of trouble.
Bullet