Bullet
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Posts posted by Bullet
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Hey jody, didn't see your post, congrats to you also man, must be that time of year....?
Bullet
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Congratulations to you my friend, let the sleepness nights begin!
Bullet
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I so knew that was gonna happen...
Of you go Stu, i fear this may take sometime!Bullet
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I'm considering to get a video camera to mount on the racebike, so I can film what I'm doing during sessions in order to provide feedback to myself.
I've previously used a Sony mini-DV camera but it takes up quite a bit of space on the tank and secondly, the helical-scan tape recording system is a fickle system that doesn't like a lot of vibrations. A fully-electronic solution (no moving parts) would be preferred.
My question is twofold: First, what cameras have people tried and would recommend? - The UK school had an all-digital camera, but it had some problems with water entering it when I did Level 4 in July.
Secondly, where should I mount it in order to get the best input into my own riding? The normal mounting position is on the fuel tank, pointing forwards and possibly seeing the instrument panel, but that's probably not the best way.
I've been looking at the VholdR ContourHD 1080p. In 1080p mode, it gives a 110 degree field-of-view, compared to the 55 degrees of the old Sony miniDV (with a 0.6x wide-angle lens).
Thanks,
Kai
Hi Kai,
We've actually changed our kit in the UK to a new CF Flash based system, which is HD. It worked brilliant well at our 2 day Camps when we tried it out so I'd really reccomend it.
You can find the kit: - http://dogcamsport.co.uk/dcs-bike-camera-kits.htm it's the HQR-2 kit.
As for angles, well, you can adjust them to suit really. Engine noise can give you info on when you come back to throttle, you just need to keep the mic out of wind, adjust the gain as appropriate.
Let us know what you do
Bullet
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In a way you are touching on the issue that at very low speed counter steering tips a bike in and over. In a very tight up hill hairpin you cannot put your foot down as the ground drops away ( ie on a right steep up hill bend on a tall bike the ground is so far below the foot that it is difficult/impossible to hold the weight of the bike so you have to gun it. On level ground at low speed after counter steer YOU need to point the bars in the desired direction of travel - like on the video?
Did you do the steering drill when you did your day at the school round?
Bullet
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OK so I am in the middle of turning my CBR600RR into a designated track bike, have spent a chunk of money on brake lines, brake pads, suspension components front and rear and a few other bits and bobs!
The issue has been raised that I should probably buy a spare set of wheels and stick a set of wets on them, I am an intermediate rider and dont use tyre warmers, and had it in mind that I'd be fine running a good all round road tyre like I have been previously, i.e. qualifiers, pilot powers 2ct etc etc, due to budget thats what I'l be doing this season anyway.
but what do you guys think, are wets on wheels worth having?
Bobby
Hi Bobby,
You see a lot of people running wets and spare wheels, and for the most part, it's a bit of a waste in performance them, the main reason being is that in order to really use wets, you really need to work them hard. If you think you can ride on wets on in the rain, very close to what you can road tyres in the dry, you'll have some idea of the level of brain commitment that it takes to get to using them properly.
Now all the performance may not get used I guess, but your other quetsion probably needs to be, if I have wets, and don't use them that well, will they still be more secure than road tyres in the rain? Answer, yes, undoubtedly. So there is an offest here, worth the money for the tyres 225 quid, plus probably 400-500 for spare wheels, plus brake discs, etc, etc? Not sure that security is worth it myself, but its a personal decsision for sure. What's a low side crash likely to cost you...?
last thing to think about is about learning about traction and feel. You'll learn very little in the rain with that level of security, you could learn loads on road tyres....
Tricky one eh?
Personally, I use them, but for years i didn't.
Bullet
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If flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing, steering an inline two-wheeled vehicle is the art of crashing and failing.
I'm loving that analagy Greg, priceless!
Cobie, thanks for enhancing that point on steering and throttle together, it was a point well emphasized, so thanks for that. Greg, your explanation of the steering mechanics are excellent too, very clear well described.
What a team we make, we should consider do this as a job you know!
Bullet
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So how do you teach us to slide the back like the pro's without the slidebike? This could be detrimental to my career development - if I had one to develop. Maybe it will have to be a trip to Laguna Seca.
Thanks Bullet. Silverstone south would be a different circuit so that would be OK. More concerned with the mid week aspect of it though. I've already booked for L3 so was looking to do L4 at the camp. What would be the difference between doing the 2 day camp & doing 2 normal school days?Bullet, Is there any more info on the 2 day UK camp yet?Hi mate,
I think it's going to be at Silverstone South, I heard probably on the dates in August. As you'll see it's not fully confirmed, but if you ring into the office, I expect they'll be able to confirm. I asked Andy I when I saw him about it a few weeks back now and he suggested that would be the case.
Sorry it's not firm for you, but I defo understand it will be at Silverstone South circuit, not anywhere else in the UK.
Bullet
Paul
Biggest differences of camp are the exclusivity of it, Student to Coach ratio is 2 - 1, instead of 3 -1 , there are 6 sessions per day (UK), rather than 5, and the sessions are all 30 mins long too. There are also only 16 students on track at once, as opposed to the usual 21, everyone also gets Video bike analysis of their riding regardless of level, which is only usually available for level 4 students.
Essentially you get more of everything, it's intense, but very good. You could definitely do 2 days of level 4 if you wanted to do on the Camp no problem at all.
Hope that answers your question?
Bullet
Do you do the slide bike at the UK camp?
Normally in a camp though, it's almost impossible to do, as your either in class, or on track, there is no slack in schedule inbetween essentially.
We've been unable to do slidebike in UK in 2009 due to circuits charging more for area to run it in. I'm unsure whether this aspect has changed or not, but expect not. You would need to ask the office mate, whether that's going to happen or not.
Bullet
The Uk as you well know is blessed with almost guaranteed rain my friend . What better conditions to learn to slide a bike around than in the rain..? Big bike power, low traction, match made for sliding and good throttle control.
I have to say, many students who've ridden the slidebike, haven't neccesarily been able to do it anyway. It takes some commitment to get it to do it, and although the procedure has been changed since I last rode it, I can tell you when I was a student many, many years back, I actually ended up wearing the bloody thing.
Never felt that keen to ride it again after that, funnily enough. Bullet
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Bullit
More countersteer and more throttle ?
Plus look where you want to go ? Avoid target fixation
Am I close, if so can I publish Twist of the Grip in the Riff Mountains ?
Seriously the look at the exit combined with throttle is a must in tight bends on heavy bikes, forgot about that.
Regards
Roundincircles
You love to add more to it than's neccesary my friend....
A little more Countersteer is all thats required..... Throttle control rule is almost always constant for keeping the line, Just follow the rule, adding too much will make it run wide also. If you do the opposite, as you noted, it will of course run wide, beacuse we can only steer bike effctively with a countersteer.Looking at exit's, etc, etc all relevant, essential and helpful, but they're not the crux of your issue.
If you completely understand why, I suggest you go out and practice and experiment with your countersteering, get the feeling of what works, why, etc, etc. Try a large empty car park, somwhere space and issue isn't a problem, and do see if you see what you did wrong, and how you'd do it properly next time. It's a nice safe environment to do so, and you can't beat that practical personal experience of knowing it for sure.
Bullet
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Hi Bullit
A Death grip on the bars ie I am moving the bars , as a SR , because the bike is tipping in too far at low speed ?
Ok we're making good progress mate.
Ok, to your observation yeah that would do it, so that would make the steering ineffective right?
How about your first point you raised, your own observation of what you described in post 1 of this thread? "and it would run wide so I PUSHED the bars in a conventional way to get the bike on line ie opposite to countersteer". Now we're understanding how a bike steers, does that action now seem completely contray to what you should have done? and in fact, could it be you actually created this problem by doing so?
If you felt the bike running wide, what should you have done? More or less countersteering input? Can you turn a bike any other way?
Bullet
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Thanks Bullet. Silverstone south would be a different circuit so that would be OK. More concerned with the mid week aspect of it though. I've already booked for L3 so was looking to do L4 at the camp. What would be the difference between doing the 2 day camp & doing 2 normal school days?Bullet, Is there any more info on the 2 day UK camp yet?Hi mate,
I think it's going to be at Silverstone South, I heard probably on the dates in August. As you'll see it's not fully confirmed, but if you ring into the office, I expect they'll be able to confirm. I asked Andy I when I saw him about it a few weeks back now and he suggested that would be the case.
Sorry it's not firm for you, but I defo understand it will be at Silverstone South circuit, not anywhere else in the UK.
Bullet
Paul
Biggest differences of camp are the exclusivity of it, Student to Coach ratio is 2 - 1, instead of 3 -1 , there are 6 sessions per day (UK), rather than 5, and the sessions are all 30 mins long too. There are also only 16 students on track at once, as opposed to the usual 21, everyone also gets Video bike analysis of their riding regardless of level, which is only usually available for level 4 students.
Essentially you get more of everything, it's intense, but very good. You could definitely do 2 days of level 4 if you wanted to do on the Camp no problem at all.
Hope that answers your question?
Bullet
Do you do the slide bike at the UK camp?
Normally in a camp though, it's almost impossible to do, as your either in class, or on track, there is no slack in schedule inbetween essentially.
We've been unable to do slidebike in UK in 2009 due to circuits charging more for area to run it in. I'm unsure whether this aspect has changed or not, but expect not. You would need to ask the office mate, whether that's going to happen or not.
Bullet
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Thanks Bullet. Silverstone south would be a different circuit so that would be OK. More concerned with the mid week aspect of it though. I've already booked for L3 so was looking to do L4 at the camp. What would be the difference between doing the 2 day camp & doing 2 normal school days?Bullet, Is there any more info on the 2 day UK camp yet?Hi mate,
I think it's going to be at Silverstone South, I heard probably on the dates in August. As you'll see it's not fully confirmed, but if you ring into the office, I expect they'll be able to confirm. I asked Andy I when I saw him about it a few weeks back now and he suggested that would be the case.
Sorry it's not firm for you, but I defo understand it will be at Silverstone South circuit, not anywhere else in the UK.
Bullet
Paul
Biggest differences of camp are the exclusivity of it, Student to Coach ratio is 2 - 1, instead of 3 -1 , there are 6 sessions per day (UK), rather than 5, and the sessions are all 30 mins long too. There are also only 16 students on track at once, as opposed to the usual 21, everyone also gets Video bike analysis of their riding regardless of level, which is only usually available for level 4 students.
Essentially you get more of everything, it's intense, but very good. You could definitely do 2 days of level 4 if you wanted to do on the Camp no problem at all.
Hope that answers your question?
Bullet
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Hi Bullet
I may be thinking too much about this, but some points about the 1200 GS
1. It does not have forks as it has Telelever front suspension with sliders controlling the wheel ( no springs or hydraulics in the slider ) thus the wheelbase remains constant unlike a conventional bike which reduces wheelbase as the forks compress.
2. It has electronic suspension adjustment so I had it set on pillion with luggage but I think the rear shock is soft anyway
My guess is - IF I have countersteered at the correct point, and by enough, plus opened the throttle at the correct rate then the rear wheel will steer the bike around the corner. But, again, my guess is that the combination of low speed and tightish corner reduces the gyroscopic impact of the wheels, fires up a SR, DELAYING my trottle imput.
Am I close?
Does a bike remain countersteered in the turn?
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Regards and Toodaloo
Roundincircles
Morning,
I'm sorry I'm not aware of the specifics of your bike, though the natural facts of how to steer a bike, how it hold a bike remains. Your suspension setup may need some work, but I'll leave that aspect, because in all honesty, I don't think that's really the problem at all.
Ok. Are you overcomplicating things...? Yes without a doubt, though don't worry it's a common thing to do when students have a misunderstanding about something which you clearly do here. Do you have the TW2 book? or are we just going from your knowledge of your day?
So now we've removed suspnsion, lets get back to straightforward simple points. I'll start by answer your questions, (again, simpler), and then we'll move onto getting some clarity.
If you countersteer the bike enough it will turn onto the line you set would you agree? If we apply more countersteering input what does the bike do? Once we've turned the bike, what do we do? Do we continue to provide more pressure or do we let go of the bar pressure on the bike? will the bike continue to steer or not?
Now to hold a line, you would indeed need to provide the right amount of throttle, following good throttle control will will make the bike hold that line without any pressure on the bars at all, and in actual fact the bars do not remain countersteered, they drop ever so slightly into the turn direction you're going in.
Now to remove your overcomplication here, the wheels provide gyro stability, nothing more you have to brake that stability as part of your countersteering input. The rear wheel only steers a bike when it's spinning and out of line with the bike, (which I'm deinitely not thinking your doing).
So now to the crux question, and this is the bit you really, really need to think about, as it's the cause of your issue, not the other things I'm afraid. If you apply enough countersteering at the entry to the turn to make your turn, and then add good throttle control, what is the only thing that can be causing the bike to run wide and alter it's line once we're into that turn?
Bullet
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Bullet, Is there any more info on the 2 day UK camp yet?
Hi mate,
I think it's going to be at Silverstone South, I heard probably on the dates in August. As you'll see it's not fully confirmed, but if you ring into the office, I expect they'll be able to confirm. I asked Andy I when I saw him about it a few weeks back now and he suggested that would be the case.
Sorry it's not firm for you, but I defo understand it will be at Silverstone South circuit, not anywhere else in the UK.
Bullet
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Hi Guys
I have completed Level 1,2 and 3 on a 08 Fireblade. Very comfortable with the teaching phylosophy and trying to implement with increasing success but have run into a problem as follows.
On a recent trip thru' the Riff and Atlas Mountains in Morroco I found my bike understeering in the tight corners, ie it wanted to steer wide towards the outside of the bend. I was on a BMW 1200 GS ( 6 years familiarity ) with my wife and heavy luggage including a heavy top box! I use road tyre - currently Dunlop Roadsmarts.
The bike handles well and tips in on countersteer progressively but on tight corners I would open the throttle, after countersteer, and it would run wide so I PUSHED the bars in a conventional way to get the bike on line ie opposite to countersteer.
Maybe it is a SR kicking in but increasing countersteer on slow corners, remember the bike is loaded and relatively tall, seemed to make the bike ' fall ' in as speed was low. I wanted to get on the throttle early to stop the bike falling in.
Two questions
1. When a bike has changed direction by countersteering and the throttle is progressively opened does the front tyre then follow the radius or stay countersteered?
2. How can I change my approach on the 1200GS?
Regards
roundincircles
Hi mate,
I be that's not been a nice feeling, the bike running wide?
I have a question for you first, before I get to yours. Why would you countersteer the bike, then NON countersteer the bike when you feel it's starting to run wide? Do you believe that you only countersteer initally, or does Countersteering carry for steering a bike ALL of the time?
To answer your questions, when you countersteer the bike, this makes the bike tip into the turn, once the bikes leaned over, the bike steering naturally tips into the turn itself. Proper throttle control application would actually mean the bike would contine to go around the corner without ANY input from you on the bars. If you would like to see both of these aspects in real life, if you get the new TW2 DVD it's beautifully filmed to show all of these things in great clarity.
Now, understanding this point, and thinking about what you've been doing here, what do you think is causing this feeling? Sure the bike's heavy, it's going to feel like it tips in more quickly, it may also feel weird odd if you have lots of weight over the rear and haven't compensated for this with suspension tweaks, as it'll make the forks longer and the steering feel slower, (a bit like riding a harley or something in comparison).
Let me know your thoguhts mate,
Bullet
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Seasons greetings to all, hope you have as much chilled out, down time as I do.
Be good now,
Bullet
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum and just wanted to say hello to everyone. Hopefully I will make some friends here in the weeks to come.
Take care and send me a pm if you want to be friends, otherwise, I'll see you all on the boards.
Hi mate,
Welcome to the forum.
Where you from mate? What you ride? how long, What kind of riding you do, road, track, racing? Tell everyone a bit about yourself, give people something to talk about.
Have a great xmas
Bullet
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So, let's talk about a standard, flat, 90 degree bend:
Your TP is consistent, roll-on rate is good and apex consistent. Entry speed is 60 mph. You end up at the exit with 3 feet to the curbing. Can you safely and successively increase the speed: 62mph, 64mph, 66mph, etc until you consistently come within millimeters of the curbing?
Well, as we're talking purely theoritical, if you were turning the bike as quick as possible, carrying the maximum amount of lean angle that your bike could handle into the turn, applying good TC, picking the bike up, driving the bike as hard as you can with the maximum amount of drive and slip angle possible, then yes you could do that until you were upto the kerbing.
The reality of course is different, they're all very vairable, for example, a lot of people drive onto kerbs more because they look at them, rather than having maximual drive, and so on, and so on.
Bullet
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Hey Overrev,
welcome to our forum. Here you'll find lots of great information on what we teach at the school, lots of students, non students, and varying levels of experience and knowledge. You'll find people love lively debate and development, and talking about experiences and learnings is always welcomed.
Please feel free to chip in ony area you feel you can contribute, share your learnings, good and bad, and perhaps in return we'll be able to help you on your journey. Hell, you might even be convinced enough to visit our school in Australia someday?
Bullet
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Hi mate,
I'm in agreement with Stuman, it's never, ever exactly the same, regardless of how well you try, it's always open to some level of variation, whether that's slightly slower/higher speed, missed Apex, etc, etc. I do think that your idea is a good one to some degree though, and TC #1 is you're primary advisor.
I will however also say, that people massively obsess over entry, whereas I'm personally all about how quick I can get of the corner, my exit is much, much, much more important. So my entry is just something I need to do to get back to that throttle.
I think in summary, you're trying to get to a very simple equation for something that's incredibly variable.
Bullet
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I've watched this therad with some great interest over the last couple of weeks, deliberately not chiming in, waiting to see what came of it, people's opinion. It's been really, very interesting, great input from everyone.
So, what's my view and experience? Well, I've "saved" a bike a couple of times from low siding on the front, and I'll be really, really honest, it was total luck, every time. In all occasions it's happened, I've been on the gas, and the only way I personally think it's come back, is that I've been locked on the bike well, kept stable, i've kept with good throttle control, and the tyre has managed to re-gain traction all by itself. Sure, I attempted to dig my knee in harder, did it help? I don't know, but I didn't fall off.
On all the occasions I've lowsided on the front, and there are a few
, I've either trail braked or been later back to gas, or ran into the turn a little hot and had late throttle application, and the front's folded. On these instances, I've tried to carry the bike, but it's just gone to quickly and folded me onto my arse! So there, thats my twopenneth, I think it's possible, but good throttle, being stable and having an element of good luck and fortune that the front will regain traction serve as to contributing much more heavily than pushing it up off the floor.
Bullet
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Slow--
Ok, in your words, what do you recall as the main point of knee to knee?
Then, what do you recall as the point of hip flick? Whatever, little or much, just give an idea of what you got from those 2 (can be short).
Best,
CF
Hey Cobie,
I found this clip on youtube........
.......it's kind of refreshing my memory, but it's still a bit sketchy.
Maybe I can look at it on my level 4.
Cheers
Slowass
Hi mate,
Yes it can be covered on your level 4 for sure. Is it the area that will provide the biggest amount of improvement for you, or do you think you'll have other things that you're really struggling with? You'll be required to think about these things in your level 4 questionaire, prior to starting your day.
Have a think mate,
Bullet
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Hi Bananaman,
Welcome to our site, sounds like you've had a history of wheels and engines, no doubt you've got some great stories to tell, you being an old dog and all that.
You'll find our site really friendly, informative, and populated by really great people from across the world. Some of them are students, some aren't, just stop by, chew the fat, and offer their perspective on things. Either way, all are welcome, we're driven by the pursuit of improved motorbike skills for all.
Hope to hear more about you, and perhaps we'll see you at a UK school sometime this coming year, as I'm sure we can teach an old dog a few new tricks!
Bullet
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Evening,
You sure you're not merging the two drills together there? Knee to Knee is for what? Is it possible, Hip Flick is for chicance's pre-empting second part of chicanes? If so, how would that work?
Bullet
Hi Bullet, I really can remember Knee to Knee, but am struggling with hip flick.
In my work book hip flick comes after knee to knee. Is hip flick only to used with knee to knee ie. in the chicanes?
OK, I sort of told you.. Hip Flick is for getting your lower body stable and ready in preparation for the second part of a chicane. Remember moving your hips up the bike, but leaving your upper half lower in the turn?
Bullet
, I've either trail braked or been later back to gas, or ran into the turn a little hot and had late throttle application, and the front's folded. On these instances, I've tried to carry the bike, but it's just gone to quickly and folded me onto my arse!
Pivot Steering *unlocked* (long)
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Hmm, it's very tricky to see to be honest, though I suspect it's a combo of 1) cold tyre, 2), the rider has a bit of a tendency to come on and off the throttle. It just looked like he turned and gass'ed it a little at the same time to me and the back came round he chopped it, and it threw him over the high side.
Subtle one though wasn't it..?
Bullet