Bullet
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Posts posted by Bullet
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Looks mega, I've been having a read of MCN's review. I see it's at the top of the page now ^^^^^
Any more info CSS guys??
Its a US thing, we're having Yamaha's again in the UK in 2010. A full fleet of R1's for the coaches, and R6's for hire bikes.
I have to say, the new BMW does look like an excellent bike though for sure. No doubt we'll get a student or two on them next year, hopefully get a ride on one!
Bullet
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Where abouts is the optimum position for your head, mine is always in the bubble - hence the crossed up.
If I put the head lower and to the inside does that not make the speed seem faster?
See my point?
Some riders ride with the the head parallel to track while others orientated to the bike - what is best???
Where do you think optimum is? Where do rossi, Lornezo, Stoner, etc, all have their head?
As was noted earlier in the thread though, head position is a consequence of good body position really, which is about other things, stability, lean angle, etc, etc.
The reason you, and many other peopl do that with your head, is that you're used to trying to keep your head level, is a natural human being reaction, You need to get used to your head not being level I'm afraid, as it's almost impossible to stop this at the very top level, you have to learn to go with the bike, not counteract it, which is what you're doing.
Does it make the world seem to go faster, not really, its just you're uncomfortable with having your head at angle! It goes exactly the same speed, unless you look at the floor, and we were only just talking about visual consequence of body position earlier in this thread.
The reality Spencer is Body positioning, is icing on your cake, if you consider fundamentals of level 1, and vsual skills of level 2 as the base and cream of your cake, you'll begin to understand how you get your complete cake.. If that makes any sense.. (it's been a long weekend)..
. Learn the fundamentals, get the visuals, your body position si the last set of key components in going fast, and in itself, it won't make you that much faster.Bullet
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So I went to Cadwell, wow what a track
I didn't have a good day though. The night before I only managed to get 3 hours sleep, so I was cream crackered when I got to Cadwell.
I didn't ride very well, I was rushing into corners and felt very tight on the bike - stiff back and shoulders
I stayed until about midday and decided to call it a day. A bit of a shame, but I will go back to Cadwell next year.
Cheers
Slowass
Sorry to hear that mate, sometimes you just know you're gonna have a ###### day, and you're best just to leave it alone, save yourself for another day. Frustration can really get to you when you're just having those kind of days, and your concentratio can be on all the wrong things, and incidents happen when you're minds not on it.
You'll be back at next year mate, Cadwell will still be there, and it will always be a challenge!
Bullet
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The only problem with reading the books & doing the schools is it makes you think. Then you come on this forum for a nice easy answer to your question & they make you start thinking again.Man I'm a totally newb when it comes to track and such but I'm trying to read this and its way to deep for me. I dont even think about all this stuff.I just envision my bike doing something and it does it... ah the beauty of a Honda.
I never learn though because I keep asking questions.
Ah, but just think of the improvement you've had, and are yet to achieve enlightened one!
If it wasn't a challenge, it wouldn't be worth anything to you either!Bullet
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Would this moving around have something to do with knees & tanks by any chance?
Yeap. legs, legs, and more legs.. :-)
Bullet
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I'm looking to do L3 as early as possible next year. Either rockingham or stowe.
When your the size I am the bike stays on the tarmac regardless how big the bump so everything feels slight.
Would that be the slight crest & camber change?There is something specific about what happens to the track on the exit of druids. Which perhaps compromises how much drive you can get?Bullet
Slight? Slight...
So do you want to be going over that, or avoiding it and driving harder on the flatter tarmac?Bullet
I'm not sure it's an advantage but that's what tends to happen.I still think i'll go for the flatter tarmac though.
I've also been thinking about the chicanes again after watching the BSB boys. I'm thinking that I am expending a lot of energy in chicanes getting from 1 side of the bike to the other & i'm beginning to wonder whether you really need to be leaning off on slower quick flick corners. I can see the point on the faster corners & it feels right.
What levels have you done mate? Have you got to Level 3 yet? If not, we develop lots about physical movement on and across the bike, and how to make it easier (I say easier, coz it's still reasonably hard work but certainly less than most riders make it).
Bullet
Word on the street is that there isn't going to be any Rockingham dates in 2010 I'm afraid. (yet to be confirmed). There are new additions being made to Stowe Circuit for 2010, another .5 miles is being added, and we'll also be using the south circuit too.
Dates will be made official this next week, as its NEC time, and we have to have them confirmed.
Look forward to seeing you on Level 3 my friend, help you work through the physical drills. You might want to get a bit of work done on your legs before you go, maybe moutain bike a bit, or something similiar..
Bullet
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When your the size I am the bike stays on the tarmac regardless how big the bump so everything feels slight.
Would that be the slight crest & camber change?There is something specific about what happens to the track on the exit of druids. Which perhaps compromises how much drive you can get?Bullet
Slight? Slight...
So do you want to be going over that, or avoiding it and driving harder on the flatter tarmac?Bullet
I'm not sure it's an advantage but that's what tends to happen.I still think i'll go for the flatter tarmac though.
I've also been thinking about the chicanes again after watching the BSB boys. I'm thinking that I am expending a lot of energy in chicanes getting from 1 side of the bike to the other & i'm beginning to wonder whether you really need to be leaning off on slower quick flick corners. I can see the point on the faster corners & it feels right.
What levels have you done mate? Have you got to Level 3 yet? If not, we develop lots about physical movement on and across the bike, and how to make it easier (I say easier, coz it's still reasonably hard work but certainly less than most riders make it).
Bullet
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Would that be the slight crest & camber change?There is something specific about what happens to the track on the exit of druids. Which perhaps compromises how much drive you can get?Bullet
Slight? Slight...
So do you want to be going over that, or avoiding it and driving harder on the flatter tarmac?Bullet
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Guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. F
Whilst it's not that single factor in itself, it can surely be of no concidence they're trying to optimise and make best use of as much techniques as possible to their disposal?
Bullet
you got me wrong buddy. i completely agree with what you are saying. there is a reason why all the best riders hang off that way. i was just pointing out that not everyone who is crossed up have troubles turning their head... its actually easier to move your head around with a more upright position than when you are all low and to the inside...
and in the end, its all about traction management especially at the point when the tires start giving off in a race.I completely agree, there have been some stunning examples of riders that had horrid body position and totally dominated their class. Doohan, looked horrible, though some of it was injury related. Bayliss another great example. I do agree with what you say about being too low, some people are so low, they can't see up the track enough, and some of the crew have experimented a lot with body position too little, too far, see what's best.
Yeah, at the top level, its about traction, feel, vision for sure. Oh to have a go on one of those bikes... :-)
Bullet
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me? i dont ride crossed up at all. the vision thing doesnt have anything to do with body position though. bayliss was able to look through turns and so does everyone else i know who rides that way. it doesnt mean that its right though. its all about traction and clearance. everything that you do boils down to those two things. vision is something else. its given that riders should look where they should go.
Your right mate, you don't ride crossed up, all looks good.
Guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. For me as a coach, it's just about making things better, making incremental changes to make things easier, better, rather than harder, and there is improvement to be had by getting the head and shoulders into the turn.
There are many examples of riders that don't do this, and have their own style, I think if we were to look at the 4 very best riders in the world right now, (MotoGP) none of them rides crossed up. Whilst it's not that single factor in itself, it can surely be of no concidence they're trying to optimise and make best use of as much techniques as possible to their disposal?
Bullet
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There is something specific about what happens to the track on the exit of druids. Which perhaps compromises how much drive you can get?
Bullet
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my 2cents
being crossed up doesnt limit riders from turning their head to the direction of the turn. the reason to pull your head and upper body to the inside it to give the bike more clearance/traction at a certain speed compared to sitting crossed up. makes corner exits mor manageable and faster.
the only difference i see from elias and lorenzo is that elias likes to hang his ass way out there. hes got both his cheeks off the seat while lorenzo is barely hanging off. both of their spines are to the inside of the bike and is parallel to the bike. besides bayliss and hodgson, vermulen (sp?), i havent seen anyone else in motogp that is crossed up on the bike except when not at pace.
Do you find it easy to look over your shoulder, when it's facing the wrong direction, i.e. into towards the bike, and away from where you're actually going. Seems pretty sub optimal to me. There are other reasons why these riders do this, but I'm not going to go into it on here. You'll find all that out if you do level 2 and get on the lean bike, and do level 3 physical drills.
Bullet
I'm a bit curious about the other reasons, would you mind going into that a bit more? I'm guessing that fear of leaning can make someone want to keep head or body more 'on top of' the bike, and also that hanging your butt off too far can make you get crossed up, any other reasons? I am fighting a tendency to stiffen up my left shoulder and push it forward on left hand turns, and I can't figure out what's causing it. I'm not afraid of leaning it, and I don't hang off very far - in fact I still stiffen that shoulder even when I don't hang my butt off at all. My position is OK approaching the turn, and stays OK when I get into a hang off position, but at the moment I turn the bike, I throw my shoulder forward. It's worse on downhill turns. I am right-handed, and do a lot of my steering, even on left turns, with my right hand, especially at slow speeds. When I sit on a bike on a stand, my position looks fine, and it looks OK on the lean bike too, but when a coach follows me on track they see me make a weird change in position right at the turn-in - sometimes it looks like a late look-in because my shoulder comes forward relative to my head, which sort of looks like I turned my head. Anything you can do to help would be MUCH appreciated!!
You've covered a couple of the reasons Hotfoot. With respect to you, in all honesty, you'll find it very hard to fix this kind of problem that you're explaining without a coach seeing you on a bike, following you etc, it's really the only way.
Sorry its not the answer you wanted, but to give you any coaching without being with you would be improper and possibly dangerous/detremental to your riding.
You could maybe discuss this with Cobie or Pete over the phone or by mail? If they've worked with you, see you, they could offer you some further insights into your little quirk..
Bullet.
p.s. We all have little quirks on the bike, I've got a weird thing I sometimes do more to the rights than lefts. Tried for years to irradicate it, still doesn't quite feel the same as to the left. Weird eh!
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my 2cents
being crossed up doesnt limit riders from turning their head to the direction of the turn. the reason to pull your head and upper body to the inside it to give the bike more clearance/traction at a certain speed compared to sitting crossed up. makes corner exits mor manageable and faster.
the only difference i see from elias and lorenzo is that elias likes to hang his ass way out there. hes got both his cheeks off the seat while lorenzo is barely hanging off. both of their spines are to the inside of the bike and is parallel to the bike. besides bayliss and hodgson, vermulen (sp?), i havent seen anyone else in motogp that is crossed up on the bike except when not at pace.
Do you find it easy to look over your shoulder, when it's facing the wrong direction, i.e. into towards the bike, and away from where you're actually going. Seems pretty sub optimal to me. There are other reasons why these riders do this, but I'm not going to go into it on here. You'll find all that out if you do level 2 and get on the lean bike, and do level 3 physical drills.
Bullet
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Right, if you find your attention being dragged down a little and then looking up like a frightened rabbit, thats a pretty good example of looking at something for too long really. You need to let go of it earlier than that, definitely, it should never feel like that, should be a nice smooth flow of information.
So, you decided Wide view works well, which is great, and thats what we want. So, do you think if we found our RP's early, made them strong enough to see easily, riding around with wide view, with RP's to locate yourself in your wide view would be a compromise? What do you think it might do that frantic hunting feeling of your vison you've got now?
My thoughts are that I have been going about things wrongly & forgetting what I've been taught & getting carried away with TP's rather than the apex. I need to find a strong easily seen apex RP that will give me the exit I want, I then need to find a turn point that works for me at my speed so I hit my apex & am on the throttle as early as possible. When I have found these RP's for every corner then I can religate them to the back of my mind & spend as little attention as possible on them while still hitting them (Wide View?) until I need/want to change my RP's. I am using the kerbs as my apex RP but not sure how strong they are as I'm working on say 3/4 the way round the kerb rather than a fixed point that would get me within inches everytime.
Right knickerbrook and foulstons chicane are both tricky places, because there is something thats sort of very close to the Apex on the entry to the first part of the turns. Did you notice what it was, and did you find yourself looking at it?
Tyres covered by padding & black plastic. I even noticed the tyre tread I looked that close. Fixation again I think as given a few more sessions I could probably tell you the tread depths. OK knickerbrook, my most important apex to hit would be the last one before going up clay hill. Towards the end of the kerb there is a bit that sticks out & that's what I have been using as my final apex. TP is where the white lines meet from the circuit coming in from the left. Middle apex 2/3 way round inside kerb. TP lost in space somewhere between the 1st 2 kerbs. 1st apex also lost in space, I was originally using the inside kerb but now I've been turning when Im inline with the beginning of that kerb. I'm beginning to see a theme here & it's lack of RP's.You definitely don't need to Apex twice in Druids either, just once, the last one.
I was following a circuit guide that I found on the internet which mentioned apexing on both inside kerbs. It didn't feel right hitting both kerbs (although most people seem to do that in the inters) so I'll change my apex further round the 2nd kerb & look for another TP (currently tarmac change) so I can get to my new apex. Is there a limit to how deep you can go at Druids before it gets slippy with the trees?
You need enough attention to hit your Apex's, but so much so as though you forsake the transition from Apex to exit. If you can spot them with a "wide view" of the world, great, some corners you may find you need give more attention to. Just don't get so fixated as you let your visual timing drop.
I'm glad you spotted the tyres. That suggests you're actually looking at them, rather than an Apex on the track. I know, coz I've had this very same problem myself. They stand up of the floor so high, you come at them with real speed, and you think you're going to hit them with your shoulder. Its more likely to make your very tentative in those turns. I only got them better when I just stopped looking at them.. Look the track instead.
Why you think it might be better to use less of the track on the exit of Druids? Have you ever noticed where the BSB boys go? Go and have a look on Youtube, there are some videos or BSB onboard laps, altought the circuit has changed, you can see where they go around druids!
Bullet
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Just a quick one, does it make a whole heap of difference where your head is physically during a turn?
I notice from shots taken of me while racing that I'm crossed up a little ala Mick Doohan.
Its my natural position when riding, but would forcing my body position to another style make me faster/safer in the long run? Would pushing the head lower and more forward be better?
Also would sitting lower on the bike or higher, or further back make a big difference at my level?
Hi Spencer,
Well, If you ride a little like Doohan, (and he only did that because he had a very badly smashed up leg that made it hard), you're head is more to the inside of the bike, would that be correct?
My question to then is this. Lets imagine we're going through a left hand corner, you're leaned off in Doohan stylee, which way is your head and shoulders facing? Would you agree that a lot about riding fast is about vision, what you look at, where, etc? Do you think that's the optimum position to provide you with great visuals?
If we look at today's current crop of MotoGP riders, lets compare say Tony Elias, and Jorge Lorenzo below, what difference can you see..?
Bullet
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OK so I did Oulton on Saturday with some mixed results. It was raining so it was a good day to go slower & look for RP's & do some practicing. I did a few sessions deciding on my RP's & consiously trying to do 2 step & 3 step. What I found I was doing was fixating on my apex's.
I was getting a little bogged down with this so for the last sessions I just went out & rode keeping wide vision & not consiously looking at any of my RP's & it felt a whole lot smoother.
Am I only going to get short term gains from this kinda riding, is it acceptable to process RP's on a subconcious level once youve fixed where they are?
This got me to thinking about some of my problem corners around the track, I am really happy with the faster corners but struggle on the slow chicane type corners & I am beginning to think that it's because I have been fixating on the kerbs rather than seeing the whole scene.
So would you say, you saw your Apex coming, then as you got to it you realised you were looking down at the floor as it came towards you, or was it something else? Which corners at Outlon were you struggling with specifically mate, as it's my local track, and I have some good knowledge of the place personally.
What benefits did you feel you got from being in wide vision, as opposed to solely focused on RP's?
Bullet
Not quite as bad as looking down at it but pretty close. I would fixate on the apex until just before I got to it then would look up (a bit like a rabbit caught in headlights) & hunt frantically for my exit point.
When I was in wide vision everything seemed to go a lot smoother & felt slower without any surprises.
The worse corner was knickerbrook followed a close second by foulstons.
I never managed to get a decent run into Old hall either because of puddles around the inside kerb or low sun blinding me so didn't manage to get any RP's that I was happy with.
I was double apexing Druids (apex on each kerb) but wasn't sure whether I could turn in later & miss out the 1st kerb & get a straighter drive out up to lodge.
Ok mate,
Right, if you find your attention being dragged down a little and then looking up like a frightened rabbit, thats a pretty good example of looking at something for too long really. You need to let go of it earlier than that, definitely, it should never feel like that, should be a nice smooth flow of information.
So, you decided Wide view works well, which is great, and thats what we want. So, do you think if we found our RP's early, made them strong enough to see easily, riding around with wide view, with RP's to locate yourself in your wide view would be a compromise? What do you think it might do that frantic hunting feeling of your vison you've got now?
Right knickerbrook and foulstons chicane are both tricky places, because there is something thats sort of very close to the Apex on the entry to the first part of the turns. Did you notice what it was, and did you find yourself looking at it?
You definitely don't need to Apex twice in Druids either, just once, the last one.
Let me know your thoughts mate.
Bullet
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OK so I did Oulton on Saturday with some mixed results. It was raining so it was a good day to go slower & look for RP's & do some practicing. I did a few sessions deciding on my RP's & consiously trying to do 2 step & 3 step. What I found I was doing was fixating on my apex's.
I was getting a little bogged down with this so for the last sessions I just went out & rode keeping wide vision & not consiously looking at any of my RP's & it felt a whole lot smoother.
Am I only going to get short term gains from this kinda riding, is it acceptable to process RP's on a subconcious level once youve fixed where they are?
This got me to thinking about some of my problem corners around the track, I am really happy with the faster corners but struggle on the slow chicane type corners & I am beginning to think that it's because I have been fixating on the kerbs rather than seeing the whole scene.
So would you say, you saw your Apex coming, then as you got to it you realised you were looking down at the floor as it came towards you, or was it something else? Which corners at Outlon were you struggling with specifically mate, as it's my local track, and I have some good knowledge of the place personally.
What benefits did you feel you got from being in wide vision, as opposed to solely focused on RP's?
Bullet
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Hey Bullet,
I was as is now a habit, doing the two step at the time, and it wasnt until i was feeling the front slide that I even knew something was wrong. Ido remember tryingto loook through as I was on the way down, but I think catching a glimpse of hte car behind me sort of blew things out. I've had 2 big crashes that were easier to deal with but maybe your right and Im stuck on hte car? Guess I'll see come level 2
thanks mate...hows your collarbone doing?
Cdollarbone big improvements since being operated and pinned thanks. Been 2 months now, and just starting to get back to work properly, being able to drive a little, etc, etc.
Hoping to be doing some physical training in about 1 month, hope to be back on Bike again in about March.
You're welcome on the comment/thoughts mate, keep us posted, and if you think of anything else you want to talk through, let us know mate.
Bullet
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Hey Guys
Well what a crappy weekend. I had a good day riding on Friday 13 (I didnt know!!!), practicing quick turns, two step and throttle control. All to be undone when I was heading home (1KM to go) and some scrotum had left a load of gravel around a roundabout (big circle in the road to control traffic) and the front tire washed out. Id tried to be Colin Edwards and use my knee and elbow to push myself back up but the back had stepped out and caught the rest of the gravel, so down she went with me providing support underneath for the rest of the sliding. The car behind me provided motivation to get off my butt and pick the bike up.
So after having a local bike mechanic come out and check it, all mechanically good i think. All I had was a bent right hand clip on, rearset and the whole right side fairing scratched and holed up. Luckily i stopped most of the cosmetic damage by being underneath. Full leathers people!!!
I have tried all weekend to try to get my confidence back, especially around roundabouts, but its just not happening. Iim feeling like I have just started riding again. I feel like my decision making ability has receded and I now have SR's firing all the time. I know its only been a couple of days but with Level 2 in 4 weeks I dont want to waste it. I have had 2 big crashes before with some hospital time but I didnt feel like this afterwards.
All in all Im lucky a car didnt roll over the top of me but my confidence is shot and I want it back......advice anyone on fixing my head or any other checks I need to do for my bike.
Thanks for reading my whinge
Dylan
Hi Dylan,
Sorry to hear about your crash mate, sounds like you were very unlucky in how it happened, but more importantly you've not een hurt, your bike sounds relatively unscathed, and you've lived to tell another tale.
I have to say, as veteran of a few crashes myself over the years, I've always found it very easy to let go of the crashes, you have to understand why, (simple in your case I think), what you would do again to stop it from happening, (Did you spot it or fixate on it?), and just rider over it.
Now, you made a quite pertinent point at the end, and I'm wondering whether its the crash itself, or the fact that you nearly got hit by a car thats really bothering you? As you made a point about that specifically, and I've no doubt, having a close scrape with someone totally out of your control would bother you.
Hope that helps a bit mate?
Bullet
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MotoGP
Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo
WSB
Haga, Rea, Toseland
WSS
Laverty, Sofalolgu, Lascorz
BSB
Brookes(assuming he's back), Easton, Hill
We don't get AMA anymore, so can't comment.
Semi controversial, but hey not like someone's holding a gun to my head is it, or making me stake my life on it.
Bullet
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Looks great that JasonZila, really good.
I have to say, I love your lid, looks awesome..
Bullet
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Stuman uses a Thighmaster (really, he does).
CF
Man thats got some mileage...!
Bullet
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My initial speed will be slow whilst I'm trying to learn the track/find RP's. Once I've found my way about a bit my speed will be slightly less slow
Yeah, I'd suggest, find your way around, learn the track, (i'd suggest prioritise which types of RP's you try and find first, rather than every single one on the entire track...!) then just have fun.. It'll be enough there I assure you!
Enjoy, keep us posted.
Bullet
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Using wide view to find some usable RP's for the first few sessions? Focussing on 2/3 step once I have found RP's??
Then flying over the mountain
What I'm trying to avoid is just blatting around the track and taking nothing useful away from the day.
OK, RP's only first... speed? What is it your going to be trying to find, whats going to help locate yourself and will be of most value to you? Then followed by..? Then what to be able to use 3 step?
Once we've got them, what next..?
Bullet
Bmw S1000rr
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
It will have to be a sensational system on the BMW to be more tractable and rider friendly than the flat plane crank on the new R1, It can only be described as senastional for throttle feel I assure you, I've felt nothing like it in my life, smooth, linear, power. Driving the R1 this year to the stop, first gear on GP Racer tyres in inch deep water, was just incredibly good and easy, not a scarry moment in sight.
I guess we'll see when the bikes all come together to be tested sometime soon!
Bullet