Bullet
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Posts posted by Bullet
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Question: On a moto X bike I've been taught to keep my weight forward on the seat (4 fingers from the front of seat) to ensure that my body weight is in the centre of the bike between the front and rear wheel so that the rear wheel can pivot around my body and move when required without wiping out or high siding.
Is this the case with a track bike as when watching the new DVD "Twist of the wrist 2" it talks about pushing your backside into the rear of the seat to lock it in. Does this put more weight over the rear wheel or because your upper body is pushed forward is you COG still central between the front & rear wheel as its spread out along the bike?
I just started thinking about this one and wondered if you could offer any advice?
The point of being pushed back in the seat is more a point of being locked in. Have you tried to lock in on the bike when close to the tank and attempted further back? If so, what have you learned..? Why do you think being locked in on a sportbike is important, but where maybe on a dirtbike you need to be so fluent with the bike?
Bullet
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Been on the bikes before (did lvl 1 and 2 in vegas) and agree with the comments... was just hoping to ride the new 6r (was thinking of picking one up to be my track weapon
I'd put good money on the R6 being a better track only bike than a Ninja to be honest, it's absolutely razor sharp piece of kit that is. All of te 600's are good, but for track only, thats the one for sure..
Bullet
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Hi mate,
OK Cadwell, great track, really is excellent, though its very narrow, and a bit intimidating place to get yourself aqcainted with. right then, lets get to developing a plan then shall we? Firstly, how many drills are you going to try and work on at once...? Given you've never been there before, do you think your attention may be taken with trying to find your way around for a little while, say, at least till lunch?
Now, lets think back to how we've coached you at the school, think of how we run our days, how do you think you could apply that to start off your day? What drills from level 1 and 2 specifically may help early on in your day, help you make your map.?
I'd suggest this may take up much of your day really, after that, I'd suggest you think about the drills you've worked on that perhaps you've still got work to do on. Which drill do you think might be your weakest, and may give you the most benefit?
I think it's important to remember too, you're there to have fun too!
Let us know what your plan might be, we can talk it through some more.
Bullet
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Hello all, thought i would write in and let you guys know what i thought of the course a few days later when all the info had sunk in. well the verdict is ... ... ... WOW!
I had no idea how much my riding would improve on the street after the course, it made a huge difference. I did the level 1 course at Phillip island, and the throttle control drill (in conjunction with the quick turn and corner entry) has solved so many of my riding problems!
Went for a ride today through some of my favorite roads and my perception of how fast i can go, and how controlled i can be has completely changed. much more confident that I'm on the right line and not going to run wide.
I haven't got everything nailed but i believe I'm on my way, just wanna say thanks to the riding coaches (particularly my coach Shane) and Steve for the class room sessions, and i can't wait for level 2!
Hey mate,
Is amazing how much improvement you can get from level 1 isn't it?
Really glad you had such a cool time. Am sure you'll be back to post questions on other things you get stuck on, and please share your development as continues.
Bullet
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Now if I could just stop getting on the gas while I'm dipping the bike.
What's the one thing you could do that would stop you getting back to the gas too early and thus resist this temptation my friend...? Or should we ask, why is it that you're so keen to get back to throttle so soon...?
Bullet
I need to complete the turn first. Old habit. I've never been able to quick turn like I did the two days I was in Vegas. I even got blue flagged for it. I always knew that I was going in too slow, so to compensate I would get back on the throttle real soon.
you're right.. you do need to complete the turning of the bike first... but your temptation to get back to so soon is primarly caused coz by the later part of your statement... you think it, whether its true or not....? But thats what's causing that really! So how could you resolve that aspect of it..?
Bullet
I thought the other day it had just become habit. I was going through the carousel and already leaned over (following Stu) and when I dipped the bike even farther (LOVED it) I cranked the throttle also. I don't know how else to fix it other than being more patient.
Well patience is one way, but how about if you carried just a llittle bit more speed into that earlier part turn? Would that stop your need to get back to the throttle so quickly?
Now, when we're talking about carrying a bit more speed, it's important to be very clear here. You need to do this with a plan, i.e. something like, I'm going to brake a little bit later, and just carry say 3-5 mph more into the turn as you turn the bike. If you don't have a plan, what you'll get is SR's firing off left right and center, and thats not a plan at all. Only do it one turn where you think you could easily get away with it, i.e. not a hairpin, experiment see if that gives you what you want.
Bullet
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Great story, good pic too! There's a full on racer in there somewhere ya know!
Bullet
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Now if I could just stop getting on the gas while I'm dipping the bike.
What's the one thing you could do that would stop you getting back to the gas too early and thus resist this temptation my friend...? Or should we ask, why is it that you're so keen to get back to throttle so soon...?
Bullet
I need to complete the turn first. Old habit. I've never been able to quick turn like I did the two days I was in Vegas. I even got blue flagged for it. I always knew that I was going in too slow, so to compensate I would get back on the throttle real soon.
you're right.. you do need to complete the turning of the bike first... but your temptation to get back to so soon is primarly caused coz by the later part of your statement... you think it, whether its true or not....? But thats what's causing that really! So how could you resolve that aspect of it..?
Bullet
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Now if I could just stop getting on the gas while I'm dipping the bike.
What's the one thing you could do that would stop you getting back to the gas too early and thus resist this temptation my friend...? Or should we ask, why is it that you're so keen to get back to throttle so soon...?
Bullet
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If I slow down a little I'll give myself more time to look for RP's.Yes, RP's are individual to some degree, it's what works for you, they're preferable on the track, but off track ones work too. Find some that create that map for you.So, having ridden there for a day and not found them easily at the speeds you've been going, what might you need to change to find some more easily?
If we go back now and look where you started from, do you think now that your inability to get to your Apex is actually related to quick turning, or an in ability to really locate yourself, know what too look at etc?
Bullet
I'm back at Oulton next weekend so I'll slow down a little & check my RP's & define them better. I do find that I get carried away some times & need to back off. I've done some of my best rides in the damp when all I think of is being smooth & doing my 3 points.
One thing I have noticed is that when you late turn into a corner there is often someone coming up the inside & blocking your route round the corner, i'm not sure whether they think i've overshot the corner or not. I'm guessing i need to use less track & stay in board a bit
Thanks Bullet
You worked it out yourself, I only ask questions.. :-) You're welcome anyway mate, no worries.
You'll soon discover that the key to start going quickly, and by that, I mean really quick, all comes from visuals. If you overlook it and dismiss it, you'll ultimately get frustrated as you top out in your available space.. Whilst sometimes it might seem a waste of a session or two to build up your visual RP's, you'll find it pay dividends when you start to go quicker, as you'll know where you're going, not just looking into an empty space of tarmac!
Keep practitsing, let us know how it goes after your next track session.
Bullet
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Yes, RP's are individual to some degree, it's what works for you, they're preferable on the track, but off track ones work too. Find some that create that map for you.
So, having ridden there for a day and not found them easily at the speeds you've been going, what might you need to change to find some more easily?
If we go back now and look where you started from, do you think now that your inability to get to your Apex is actually related to quick turning, or an in ability to really locate yourself, know what too look at etc?
Bullet
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No.
I move my attention to my apex before I get to my TP so I can see whereAnyone else with any constructive comments?So, you look beyond your apex? When you switch your attention from Turn point to Apex, you made reference to only doing this when you're sure you're going to hit it? Why do you do this and would carrying this principal in other aspects of your riding help?
Bullet
I want to go next & not to fixate on 1 spot, I can still see my turn
point with my perifery vision. I am always looking further into the
corner & move my attention to where I want to exit the corner before I
get to the apex. I do this so I know where I am going next & to keep a
widescreen view on the track ahead. It also gets disconcerting if you
look at the apex while going over it.
'So, you look beyond your apex?' these a nigling bit in the back of my
head thats telling me I heard something about looking 1m beyond my apex
but as I said before I can't remember whether I should always be doing
this?
Is this the reason I am missing my apex rather than not turning quick
enough?
So, if you don't look at something for long enough with enough attention, would that enable you to hit it consistently?
Bullet
I don't feel as though I am skimming over the points quickly, I am looking at them for a reasonable amount of time. Whether it's enough time?
Well, is the timing of 2 step, any different from the 3 step? You already idenitifed you look at the turn point until your sure you're going to do...? Then you look at... until... what?
Does the timing of the when we look at something affect our ability to hit the points we look at..?
Bullet
No I don't see why the timing would be any different between 2 step & 3 step.
I am looking at the apex as early as I can without causing myself to turn the bike too early & miss my TP. I'm slightly more vague on when I move my attention from the apex except that it's sometime before i've got there. I used to spend too much time looking at the apex but I'm really trying to look for my exit point now. On most corners it feels like a reasonable flow of information. The only corner where I found it wasn't the case was gerrards & I would feel completly lost part way round. I've only done the place once but it didn't get any better thru' the day.
Good, we're getting some progress.
OK gerrard's at Mallory is a tricky turn, because can you see the Apex of the turn when you at your turn point? If you can't look to the Apex, what could you look for instead to get you to your Apex.
Bullet
No the apex is on the other side of the track towards the exit of the turn.
I think I kept looking as far ahead as I could towards the inside of the turn but it didn't feel good. I could create some more RP's. There was a patch in the tarmac part way round that I looked for & tried to stay to the inside of.
That's right, its all the way round that long turn...
Yeah, finding some RP's (or more importantly some really easy to use RP's) would help for sure, and you're thinking along the right lines, there are some bands of tarmac and you can use those or sure. The term we use for the inside of the track (as you described it) is the vanishing point, and thats a second best to an RP.
So, are we in agreement that perhaps in this turn, your RP's aren't good enough to enable you to locate yourself time after time? How could you fix this the next time you're there?
Bullet
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No.
I move my attention to my apex before I get to my TP so I can see whereAnyone else with any constructive comments?So, you look beyond your apex? When you switch your attention from Turn point to Apex, you made reference to only doing this when you're sure you're going to hit it? Why do you do this and would carrying this principal in other aspects of your riding help?
Bullet
I want to go next & not to fixate on 1 spot, I can still see my turn
point with my perifery vision. I am always looking further into the
corner & move my attention to where I want to exit the corner before I
get to the apex. I do this so I know where I am going next & to keep a
widescreen view on the track ahead. It also gets disconcerting if you
look at the apex while going over it.
'So, you look beyond your apex?' these a nigling bit in the back of my
head thats telling me I heard something about looking 1m beyond my apex
but as I said before I can't remember whether I should always be doing
this?
Is this the reason I am missing my apex rather than not turning quick
enough?
So, if you don't look at something for long enough with enough attention, would that enable you to hit it consistently?
Bullet
I don't feel as though I am skimming over the points quickly, I am looking at them for a reasonable amount of time. Whether it's enough time?
Well, is the timing of 2 step, any different from the 3 step? You already idenitifed you look at the turn point until your sure you're going to do...? Then you look at... until... what?
Does the timing of the when we look at something affect our ability to hit the points we look at..?
Bullet
No I don't see why the timing would be any different between 2 step & 3 step.
I am looking at the apex as early as I can without causing myself to turn the bike too early & miss my TP. I'm slightly more vague on when I move my attention from the apex except that it's sometime before i've got there. I used to spend too much time looking at the apex but I'm really trying to look for my exit point now. On most corners it feels like a reasonable flow of information. The only corner where I found it wasn't the case was gerrards & I would feel completly lost part way round. I've only done the place once but it didn't get any better thru' the day.
Good, we're getting some progress.
OK gerrard's at Mallory is a tricky turn, because can you see the Apex of the turn when you at your turn point? If you can't look to the Apex, what could you look for instead to get you to your Apex.
Bullet
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No.
I move my attention to my apex before I get to my TP so I can see whereAnyone else with any constructive comments?So, you look beyond your apex? When you switch your attention from Turn point to Apex, you made reference to only doing this when you're sure you're going to hit it? Why do you do this and would carrying this principal in other aspects of your riding help?
Bullet
I want to go next & not to fixate on 1 spot, I can still see my turn
point with my perifery vision. I am always looking further into the
corner & move my attention to where I want to exit the corner before I
get to the apex. I do this so I know where I am going next & to keep a
widescreen view on the track ahead. It also gets disconcerting if you
look at the apex while going over it.
'So, you look beyond your apex?' these a nigling bit in the back of my
head thats telling me I heard something about looking 1m beyond my apex
but as I said before I can't remember whether I should always be doing
this?
Is this the reason I am missing my apex rather than not turning quick
enough?
So, if you don't look at something for long enough with enough attention, would that enable you to hit it consistently?
Bullet
I don't feel as though I am skimming over the points quickly, I am looking at them for a reasonable amount of time. Whether it's enough time?
Well, is the timing of 2 step, any different from the 3 step? You already idenitifed you look at the turn point until your sure you're going to do...? Then you look at... until... what?
Does the timing of the when we look at something affect our ability to hit the points we look at..?
Bullet
-
I move my attention to my apex before I get to my TP so I can see whereAnyone else with any constructive comments?So, you look beyond your apex? When you switch your attention from Turn point to Apex, you made reference to only doing this when you're sure you're going to hit it? Why do you do this and would carrying this principal in other aspects of your riding help?
Bullet
I want to go next & not to fixate on 1 spot, I can still see my turn
point with my perifery vision. I am always looking further into the
corner & move my attention to where I want to exit the corner before I
get to the apex. I do this so I know where I am going next & to keep a
widescreen view on the track ahead. It also gets disconcerting if you
look at the apex while going over it.
'So, you look beyond your apex?' these a nigling bit in the back of my
head thats telling me I heard something about looking 1m beyond my apex
but as I said before I can't remember whether I should always be doing
this?
Is this the reason I am missing my apex rather than not turning quick
enough?
So, if you don't look at something for long enough with enough attention, would that enable you to hit it consistently?
Bullet
-
Anyone else with any constructive comments?
So, you look beyond your apex? When you switch your attention from Turn point to Apex, you made reference to only doing this when you're sure you're going to hit it? Why do you do this and would carrying this principal in other aspects of your riding help?
Bullet
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wen i come to the school next year . wen do i get to go on the lean slide trainer ?
Only if you're a) brave enough (it bites), and b ) if you've got to level 4. We're only able to run this bike at certain circuits too, Rockingham is normally one of the only places we can run this because of space, and paddock restrictions.
Hope that helps.
Bullet
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I'll be interested to see what verson of the story makes it back to the UK on his name, please do tell.
Wrong tyre, no warmers, 3 corners, no one could have rode it! Fill in the rest of it as you like!
Bullet
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Another question I meant to ask, where is that track, Anglesey?
CF
North Wales, right in the top left corner of wales! is always really windy there, ###### facilities, great track!
Bullet
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MC hammer, thats a stayer, fit the requirements perfectly!
Next.
Johnny Daytona's probably telling us a greatly more heroic story than the truth! He's always on at us about that as well, and he definitely sounds like a porn star with that!
Bullet
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Hi Bongo
Very cool video, have never riden Anglesey but its definitely on my to do list for next year!
Bobby
Morning Bongo,
I really enjoyed your video, even the music choice was great too.
Have to say I thought it was pretty good, lots of good stuff going on there for sure. Your right about fidgetting though, have noticed the bike wobbling sometimes mid turn? Any idea what's causing that? At 3:57 in your video, your bike gets a wobble on and becomes quite unstable, what caused that you think? I can;t say as I'm massive fan of how you change down gear and your approach could definitelt be worked on, smooth it out a lot.
All that said though, you've got a lot of good going on, some kinks you could iron out tho for sure!
Great video tho, really liked it.
Bullet
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Hey folks,
I just did my first real trackday since completing Level 1 3 weeks ago. I say 'real' trackday because this was the first one I've done since breaking my right hand 6 weeks ago where the hand wasn't hindering me. I did a day at Big Willow right after Level 1, but with a sore and swollen throttle paw (not to mention sore quads from riding Streets the day before!), I was definitely not riding at my best.
So.... yesterday was at Firebird Main here in Phoenix. Not exactly the most compelling track out there: a 180-left coming out of pit that opens onto a long straight, followed by two fast lefts (turns 1 & 2), a tight left, a tight right, a fast right and left, and then 4 esses that get progressively tighter.
Pretty good, actually, for what I needed: a place to practice turning quickly. I hadn't ridden the track before, so I got lots of practice figuring out my turn points, too.
From the very first tip in, I knew it was going to be a good day. After I got a feel for and relaxed into the track, it just got better. There were a number of times where I found that I had done my steering input just right and had the bike set for the corner, which was a way cool feeling.
Probably the neatest thing about those corners was when I realized that, having the bike set properly, I was basically done with that turn - no corrections needed, just roll on and prep for the next one. When I hit the first turn just right, the rest of them typically went exceptionally smoothly, too. Nice!
An unexpected side-effect of it all was a lot more confidence in the corners in two regards. First, it used to be that I'd get passed and be 'whatever, I'm riding my own ride.' This time out, I got passed... and kept up.
And, I was passing others like a fiend. I typically don't trust folks to hold their lines (and I did have a few close calls where I was passing on the inside and a guy tightened up his turn almost into me 
), but knowing that I could execute the turn gave me the gumption to blow by folks left and right. Particularly in the 2 fast lefts off the of the straight. One of the most satisfying parts of the day was being passed in the straight by the bigger bikes, only to launch past them on the turns. The best part of the day, though, was going head-to-head with another, newer 675 for several laps - he'd get me on the straights, but my corner entry speed was faster, so I'd take him in the twisties. Sweet.
I can't wait to get the pictures back, either since I feel like I did a lot better with getting my upper body off the tank and not just my tookus. We'll see what the photos say about that, though...
Sorry for the long note - I'm obviously still excited and can't wait to get home from work tonight and re-read through TotW 1 & 2 and apply the books to yesterday's trackday. And I'm just amazed at how much better I feel on the bike - and I really do attribute it to the school. Now I'm even more excited to get back for Level 2!
Woooohooo!
Man I love motorcycles & trackdays!-Shauna
I'm not sure it comes across that strongly in your post, but you seem quite happy with the results to date..?
Genuinely thats a brilliant story, thanks for sharing with others, am sure you'll have some regulars, recent converts and long term cynics pop up, and ask you a few questions.
Really pleased for you, thats just the best feeling ever when a student nails it as well you as seem to have done. Keep up the practice, and the rewards will just keep on coming.
Bullet
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Good day all, Griffter ere from the Motherland.
Now then fellow Brits, when I started to read this thread I thought there was no chance that our fellow cousins from across the pond would ever get this nickname malarkie, but...By golly i think they've got it! This of course is due to great work from our newly crowned 'Senior Riding Coach' Jet, 'Time Served Piss Taker' Bullet and 'The Family Leader' Idiot. Commendable work fellas, it fills me with great optimism that there is still hope for the US fraternity yet. Lol
The names so far;
Wipes - I'm liking this one, nothing wrong with a bit of personal hygene. A modern man but, WIPES! I'd have kept that secret. Lol
Barbie - HAHAHAHA! Entertainment value on this will never end.
Winkle - I've experienced the reason for this first hand in SA (was afraid to say anything...thought it was my conversation). So I'll run with this one just to give me piece of mind.
Misti - Had a cat with three legs called Misti, think it's best we don't continue down that line.
Going to open this up as I'm sure there's some mileage in it...
Oz Adam - Twas a sunny morning at Kyalami close to midday and as I approached turn 3 (the coaches holding area) I was surprised in what I saw. To my amazement, there in front of me. No it could not be! Yes. It is! In the middle of the grass was Oz Adam, C...R...C having a minute to himself. Now, I don't know, but after much thought and deliberation, I can only imagine he took it upon himself (it was close to lunchtime, possibly he couldn't wait any longer and maybe this is what they do Down Under) to embark on what can only be described as a bit of grazing. Now, he didn't look particularly SHEEPish but then surely he wouldn't have been HORSEing around....would he?
Anyway, the floor is open and my contribution for now is Heifer!
Regards
Griffter
Thanks for your words of support there my friend, though if you don't mind me saying, that was almost rash you stickin your head above the wall without getting a name yourself yet.. Don't ya think...?
So, what with you having been a pro golf coach, and ex rugby pro ( for the amercians amongst us, thats like American Football, but without the pads), and a name of some theological orgin, Guniess drinking fella like yourself, you'd have thought we'd have come up with something by now wouldn't you?
So I open it up to the floor fellow friends, any ideas?
Bullet
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Can you imagine introducing Andy Burnett as "Barbie" at staff intro? Or, him introducting himself, classic!
It's not real until I see it on my leathers, jacket and cone.
Well there is as much of an admission as you'd ever get I reckon. Welcome "Barbie"......
Right who's next?
Bullet
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Thats completely correct bullet.
Kept my turn in fixed and consistent and then the apex (where I got closest to inside or had most lean angle) would continue to alter about 3 bike lengths back and forward on a turn. Made me very inconsistent and was never too sure what roll on would do until I could see the end of the corner. By then it was too late for a solid drive...
I can see now though that having an accurate apex reference point, will allow me more consistency and I can then play with the entry speed and drive out until I use all the track, whereas before, I just never knew what would happen...
When Im that comfortable with the corner, i'll start playing by moving the apex around a little and see if I can't get a better speed.
But that would have never been possible without having a solid apex first and building on that
Thanks to all for the assistance
You're welcome mate.
Bullet
And, I was passing others like a fiend. I typically don't trust folks to hold their lines (and I did have a few close calls where I was passing on the inside and a guy tightened up his turn almost into me 
), but knowing that I could execute the turn gave me the gumption to blow by folks left and right. 
Trackday Approaching......
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Ok, so do we agree we need a plan then? Which might assist in priortising what will help you the most first? so what's going to help you the most at a new track then? How would you think you'd go about this...? what steps might you need to take in your riding to help with this?
Bullet