Bullet
-
Posts
792 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Bullet
-
-
Hey Barraman,
Ok sorry it took a little time to get back to you, I do apologise for the delay.
Now your bike isn't a superbike or supersport, and clearly it's much heavier than one of those which definitely affects things. You would be well advised to consider getting your suspension setup, but of coure it's always a compromise, and if you mainly go two up, with luggage, that will make it very hard and a little flightly I'd expect for work when you're on your own. Still worth some consideration though.
Ok, having reviewed your video's, you do need to work on your throttle control timing and application, so I'd suggest you read pages 6 - 30 of TW2. Your body position isn't perfect, (who's is?), and I suggest you look at pages 34 - 40of TW2 to look into that. Finally, you could clearly do with looking into quick turns, page 70-80 and seeing what benefits that could do with respect to you're lines, and ground clearance... Proper throttle control will also assist with this too!
Have a look, and see what pieces of information are missing for you still. i think you'll find some good information that will help a lot with some of your challenges.
Bullet
-
Hi Mate,
Thanks for those, very interesting, and pics and video just show you so much eh, it's a no escape from the truth medium for sure, the answers lie there within for sure. I have to say, thats one hell of a twisty wiggly/wobbly round isn't it? Is this road you're sturggling with?
You've not remarked on whether you've got on of Keith's text, which books if any have you got or read, so I can understand where to point you, good sir.
So then my fellow friends on the site, what would everyone comment on Barraman's body position? Anyone see anything they'd advise him to change, or may be causing him so things he could look to ammend?
Bullet
-
hello bullet nice to see you briefly (and keith!) at siverstone a few weeks ago ( i wasn,t riding but dropped in )
glad to hear you have problems too ! although i,ve noticed sometimes that when the track is damp or wet its hard to see how wet ! until you find out .
what i,ve learnt is that track days in december and january in the cold and wet at snetterton / cadwell ( never tryed warmers yet ) require more caution and pick up drill !
hmm . i thought those winter prices were cheap ..
see you at stowe in september .
I mainly road ride btaking slow in fast out lines.
I struggle with getting a good line on left handers, I guess its because for us in Australia vision to the left is tighter when compared to the right, which is more open.
The other issue I have is my head,,lol
I find that I just cant seem to geyt my head far enough across on a consistent basis.
When I run at a nice steady pace its all good, but when I ramp things up[ a bit I find thatpushing my head across to be inline with the rest of my body ( ( inside the bike) seems to change my perspective of the corner and I seem to run wide.
I dont know if I am too tight on the bars, I dont thinkl so I am very conscious of this and the need to be light.
I wonder if I have too much of a reach for the bars??
I am quite tall and I ride a CBR1100xx but the bars are a bit of a reach,,,,or should I say the bars may be more comfortable a little closer to me...
sorry for the random ramblings...lol
Hi mate,
Yeah we all have some challenges mate, though I've only ever had 1 error at a school. Got a bit of TF, ran into the gravel at big speeds, over 100+. All safe and well though.
I looked like that though when I did it. yeah good to see you too my friend. I look forward to seeing you again in September mate!
Bullet
Hi Barraman,
No problem with your points, and thanks for sharing.
Couple of questions about you and your riding on the Blackbird (as we call it in the UK). When are you coming back to throttle in the turns? Second question, you hang off the bike I think, how much do you do so, and do you have any pics of you doing so people could have a critique of your position?
Thanks mate,
Bullet
-
hello bullet nice to see you briefly (and keith!) at siverstone a few weeks ago ( i wasn,t riding but dropped in )
glad to hear you have problems too ! although i,ve noticed sometimes that when the track is damp or wet its hard to see how wet ! until you find out .
what i,ve learnt is that track days in december and january in the cold and wet at snetterton / cadwell ( never tryed warmers yet ) require more caution and pick up drill !
hmm . i thought those winter prices were cheap ..
see you at stowe in september .
Hi mate,
Yeah we all have some challenges mate, though I've only ever had 1 error at a school. Got a bit of TF, ran into the gravel at big speeds, over 100+. All safe and well though.
I looked like that though when I did it. yeah good to see you too my friend. I look forward to seeing you again in September mate!
Bullet
-
I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one
This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?
Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?
Bobby
Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?
Bullet
Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up!
When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside,
I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on!
Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally!
Bobby
You see, you did know after all.
Good answer.
Bullet
-
Hey Chris,
Welcome to the forum my friend, all are welcome here.
Have a scoot around, see whats going, and share your thoughts and experiences. hell, we might even let you ask the odd question, and actually take the time out to try and answer it.
You'll find some great people on here, doing much the same, so join and start posting.
Bullet
-
I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one
This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide?
Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result?
Bobby
Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle?
Bullet
-
Any word on the release date for the new Twist DVD?
I understand it's Mid September, and it's a parallel release in both US and Uk at the sametime as well. You can definitely pre-order it in the UK, and assume it's the same in US.
Bullet
Hi Bullet
Where in the uk can you pre-order the dvd from?
I think if you phone the office, and speak with Lynn, you can pre-order it. They were taking pre-orders at the last school we ran a couple of weeks back now, so I would be suprised if you couldn't do the same over the phone.
Bullet
-
Any word on the release date for the new Twist DVD?
I understand it's Mid September, and it's a parallel release in both US and Uk at the sametime as well. You can definitely pre-order it in the UK, and assume it's the same in US.
Bullet
-
You forgot to mention Man's eternal vice.... !
Bullet
-
I've been wrapping my body around the tank, and vision may be improved now
You should definitely see some improvements in this area too, as you've discovered, opening yourself to the turn, opens up everything really! Let us know how that goes when you start on track, see if there indeed multiple benefits to this.
Bullet
-
Yes, good ideas there NavyDude.
My previous post covered many ideas. Regarding sliding, it's about control. Control is start, change, stop. If the bike slides and you didn't initiate it, by definition, you're not controlling it. What I frequently struggle with and what I hear from other riders asking is, "How do I control slides?"
In my own search for answers I realized I was waiting for the bike to slide instead of initiating the slide. To initiate the slide, you have to first intend to slide the bike. You have to know where, when, and why.
So to control sliding, to be at some little cause over it, I realized I needed to change my ideas.
Interesting point there Greg, did you find that when you started to initate them to undertstand what would then happen, now you can almost predict when they'll happen?
Bullet
p.s. your post on the last page, with the picture was awsome by the way!
-
You're welcome.
When you've crashed, was it at the begining, middle, or at the end of a session?
Bullet
1st at the end of the session; guess I was getting tired and same time speeding up 'cause session was OK, going well otherwise
2nd just in the beginning; guess I was too confident and the "rhytm" of the track wasn't clear for me during the first laps (even it was a track I know well)
You think it might be possible that you were leaning on the bars a lot, and maybe that may have contributed to your overwhelming the front tyre at all?
Bullet
-
You've probably got too much tyre compared to your forks, I'd suggest. Even WSS bikes don't have slicks on a 600. Have you tried putting a tie wrap around the front fork leg to measure how much travel your using? Additionally, the progressive fork springs aren't ideal for hard use, and you'd definitely be better with linear springs for you weight, and get the forks revalved.
Final question for you my friend, how much weight do you carry in your arms? A bit, a fair bit? quite a lot?
Bullet
Hi! Thx for comments! I really like this board, this seems to be "alive" and relevant discussion going on...
The reason for slicks on my 600cc is they are cheaper than DOT-tyres at our market. Since I'm not racing the "official" Superstock -class, I'm allowed to use slicks as well. This is pure economic background for my hobby...
I have a tie wrap around fork and it shows there is 15-20 mm left of travel lenght, depending on track and other circumstances, pace I drive, other traffic on circuit and so on...
Regarding the weight balance on my arms, I try to load the clip-ons so little as possible, according to TOTW-lessons. Normally I manage pretty well with this, I crab the tank with my legs during hard braking and I try to take most of the upper body weight with stomach- and backmuscles. As mentioned, "normally" this works quite fine but when I'm getting tired I loose the control slightly and in the end of the session I have more load on arms, I've noticed. So the answer you my friend is: A bit in the beginning of session but a fair bit, sometimes even a lot at the end of the session.
You're welcome.
When you've crashed, was it at the begining, middle, or at the end of a session?
Bullet
-
Really good posts there HotFoot and Fajita Dave,
Anyone else care to offer their perspective on this?
Bullet
-
I think you may be misinterpretating Keiths words here. When does Keith suggest you should be getting back to 60/40, with the throttle rule? What are you as a rider typically doing before this time? In this time, where is more of the weight? Does being of the throttle move the weight to the front? Does trail braking add more or less weight to this?
I also wonder what bike you have, what setup, and what tyres and pressure you're running ? I suspect that the really fast boys have super sticky tyres?
Bullet
I think I got the point. When analyzing my loose of the front, I can find the following reasons: 1) wrong line; the cambered corner turned into flat and I was still leaning too much => lost the front grip. 2) lazy turn; I wasn't steering quick enough considering the speed I used which lead me out of the best line to bumpy surface and because of lazy turn I need to use much more lean so the front lost the grip. Actually neither of these cases were related to throttle.
On the other hand, couple of times I have cornered "very fast" related to my skills which actually scared me but remembering basic techniques I just flicked it into the corner and rolled on and boy, I made it despite of my fear. Great feeling indeed!
FYI: I run R6R, stock forks and shock (loaded Sag 30 mm F / 28 mm R) YEC Kit ECU with quickshifter, Pirelli Diablo Slick, pressures 1,95 bar F / 1,80 bar R (warm pressure). Been wondering whether it makes sense to update the forks with a Cartridge Kit (Ohlins?) with linear springs? The stock springs are progressive and the pre-tension is almost on hardest setting in order to have the Sag on right range... The stock works fine on normal circumstances but in case I make a mistake, would a better fork setup "save my ass" - literally speaking??
You've probably got too much tyre compared to your forks, I'd suggest. Even WSS bikes don't have slicks on a 600. Have you tried putting a tie wrap around the front fork leg to measure how much travel your using? Additionally, the progressive fork springs aren't ideal for hard use, and you'd definitely be better with linear springs for you weight, and get the forks revalved.
Final question for you my friend, how much weight do you carry in your arms? A bit, a fair bit? quite a lot?
Bullet
-
Then why brake at all? As I understand, the sole purpose of the brake lever for the track rider is the setting of entry speed. For a given turn and the desired line through that turn the entry speed is a (relative) maximum value. So if one can carry more speed and hold the line, then THIS is the proper entry speed for that turn, that rider, on that bike, at that turn point, etc.
And your point here seems to make a strong argument for the value of getting the entry correct, which I agree with; booger the entry and there's NO WAY you can fix the exit (LOL).
I'm not so sure about you, but approaching a turn at say 150mph plus, when I need to get around it maybe around 70mph, normally requires me to brake.. just a little..
SO, my question to you Hubbard, (as I seem to be answering all the questions here.... LOL), is what is it that determine's what is the right line for a turn anyway...? I think you'll find the answer it TW2, page 18.....!
Bullet
-
I've been wondering the front tyre grip for a while. According to the TOTW-books there should be appx 60R/40F weight balance when cornering, which is to say slight throttle opening as per "Throttle Rule". From theoretical and mechanical point of view that makes sense as Keith writes...
However, after several discussions at the pit with the "fast" guys they are working _against_ to 60/40 -rule. They tend to load the front as much as possible e.g trail braking, body movement forward etc in order to load the front and make it "bite" better.
This is confusing me. I've lost the front twice (not with trail braking) and I've tried to follow Keith's rules but this conversation with faster guys is really bothering me. They do exactly opposite and with good results (fast lap times, no crashes). I try to follow TOTW and I crash; that's confusing...
What do you think? Any opinions?
I think you may be misinterpretating Keiths words here. When does Keith suggest you should be getting back to 60/40, with the throttle rule? What are you as a rider typically doing before this time? In this time, where is more of the weight? Does being of the throttle move the weight to the front? Does trail braking add more or less weight to this?
I also wonder what bike you have, what setup, and what tyres and pressure you're running ? I suspect that the really fast boys have super sticky tyres?
Bullet
I thought the principle was the same no matter whether the tyres were super sticky or sports tourers, unless of course you are refering to how the tyre performs before turn in, in which case then I agree the super sticky efforts will be able to withstand much higher forces during braking and decceleration, but I assume no matter what tyre your on after you have the bike steered you get on the throttle ASAP and achieve the 60-40 as described in the book?
Bobby
Exactly, it is....! The only difference in quicker riders and going much faster, is they brake for longer and deeper into the turn, and as you only come back to the throttle once you've finished braking, that period of coming back to the throttle is usually a little longer.
Make sense?
Bullet
Okay, I'll bit the 'bullet' so-to-speak (LOL).
I have to admit that on one level your answer seems dead-on, but on another level, it doesn't quite sit well with me; and I'd humbly suggest that it's over-simplified.
I've heard it said that trying to make up time braking is a bad-idea. And one can see why if the newbie rider hears this, they abandon the other points of effective riding and think, "just get in deeper" and I'll go faster. I suppose this is the bravado that Valentino Rossi was talking about when comparing the GP style of riding to Superbike style.
It always happens to me this.. I try my dammedest to keep it simple... but it just never happens...
Am I over simplfying it.. Yeah, a bit. Trying to make up time on the brakes can indeed be a bad idea, but lets consider which part of the turn is most important? The start, or the exit? The answer of course is the exit, we need to get back to gas to start driving that bike as quickly as we can, so if we decide or Mid Corner speed is X, my question to you, is there time to be made up scrubbing speed off past the turn point getting to X, or just being off the brakes coasting into the turn to get to X? The answer to that is indeed yes, of course there is, hence why MotoGP riders, etc, do so.
Are there problems with doing this, hell yeah, your chances of a low side are massively increased, as what are we doing here? Are we loading the front a lot and asking it to handle turning forces and braking forces.
The most important thing is this, we still need to get back to gas as soon as we can, and back on it hard at the very earliest opporunity, however, as we all know, you never get back to it hard until after the Apex in most cases, and you can gain time by braking not neccesarily that much later, but just carrying more speed into the earlier part of the turn and for longer.
Now, does that make sense..?
Bullet
-
I've been wondering the front tyre grip for a while. According to the TOTW-books there should be appx 60R/40F weight balance when cornering, which is to say slight throttle opening as per "Throttle Rule". From theoretical and mechanical point of view that makes sense as Keith writes...
However, after several discussions at the pit with the "fast" guys they are working _against_ to 60/40 -rule. They tend to load the front as much as possible e.g trail braking, body movement forward etc in order to load the front and make it "bite" better.
This is confusing me. I've lost the front twice (not with trail braking) and I've tried to follow Keith's rules but this conversation with faster guys is really bothering me. They do exactly opposite and with good results (fast lap times, no crashes). I try to follow TOTW and I crash; that's confusing...
What do you think? Any opinions?
I think you may be misinterpretating Keiths words here. When does Keith suggest you should be getting back to 60/40, with the throttle rule? What are you as a rider typically doing before this time? In this time, where is more of the weight? Does being of the throttle move the weight to the front? Does trail braking add more or less weight to this?
I also wonder what bike you have, what setup, and what tyres and pressure you're running ? I suspect that the really fast boys have super sticky tyres?
Bullet
I thought the principle was the same no matter whether the tyres were super sticky or sports tourers, unless of course you are refering to how the tyre performs before turn in, in which case then I agree the super sticky efforts will be able to withstand much higher forces during braking and decceleration, but I assume no matter what tyre your on after you have the bike steered you get on the throttle ASAP and achieve the 60-40 as described in the book?
Bobby
Exactly, it is....! The only difference in quicker riders and going much faster, is they brake for longer and deeper into the turn, and as you only come back to the throttle once you've finished braking, that period of coming back to the throttle is usually a little longer.
Make sense?
Bullet
-
I've been wondering the front tyre grip for a while. According to the TOTW-books there should be appx 60R/40F weight balance when cornering, which is to say slight throttle opening as per "Throttle Rule". From theoretical and mechanical point of view that makes sense as Keith writes...
However, after several discussions at the pit with the "fast" guys they are working _against_ to 60/40 -rule. They tend to load the front as much as possible e.g trail braking, body movement forward etc in order to load the front and make it "bite" better.
This is confusing me. I've lost the front twice (not with trail braking) and I've tried to follow Keith's rules but this conversation with faster guys is really bothering me. They do exactly opposite and with good results (fast lap times, no crashes). I try to follow TOTW and I crash; that's confusing...
What do you think? Any opinions?
I think you may be misinterpretating Keiths words here. When does Keith suggest you should be getting back to 60/40, with the throttle rule? What are you as a rider typically doing before this time? In this time, where is more of the weight? Does being of the throttle move the weight to the front? Does trail braking add more or less weight to this?
I also wonder what bike you have, what setup, and what tyres and pressure you're running ? I suspect that the really fast boys have super sticky tyres?
Bullet
-
Hey guys I don't race or anything (yet!), but I always hang around the track on raceday and I was talking to this one guy that was planning on writing a book on motorcycle racing techniques.
He told me the reason some of the guys go really fast for a few laps and then slow down considerably (from leading the pack to being ditched in 5th place), is because the longer a race goes on the more we think about the corner we just took. My local track doesn't have a long straightaway so there aren't any breaks, therefore our mind "lags" so behind that it makes our performance worse and worse. Eventually, we'll probably be entering corners while our mind wanders a few corners away?
I don't quite understand this concept, and I sure as heck didn't find it in twist of the wrist either. Could some of you pros explain this to me please?
I have to say, I'd suggest that the reason most racers slow down after a few laps is much more likely to be because they're not fit enough, and they start to phsyically lag behind and can't keep up the effort.
From my own personal experience, I can't say as I'm thinking much about the last corner, and just concentrate on the one thats coming up, getting into it, and getting back to gas as quickly as I can to start driving hard down that next straightaway. I don't plan several corners ahead, unless they're part of a sequence of turns that flow together. I do come through a corner and make a note of what I could do better next time, but it's a quick thing, (right, I'll do that differently next time because........).
That could be a great example of attention drifting onto unneccesary things, and detracting from whats important, (i.e. the now) and slowing a rider down?
What does everyone else think about when they're at 90% or more on a trackday or in a race situation?
Bullet
-
Steel framed 600's? Which late model sportbikes are steel framed, competitive, and easy to get parts that you speak of?
CBR600 FV's and below are the most used over here in the UK, You can also get Thundercats, and Kwak ZX6R's too. They're hardly the worlds most predigious machines, but with a race tune, it's possible to get 110-115bhp at the rear wheel out of them, so they go at least as well as latest 600's do.
Bullet
I don't think we have any cbr600 fv's here in Canada or those other bikes (except for the zx6r, but I don't know which are steel framed). I already posted a similar thread on another "local forum", but I think more than likely I'll probably end up getting an SV650. I'm just really worried that I won't be able to run in as many categories as I'd like to, to gain more racing experience.
If I was you my friend, I'd take the advice of others, see what racing categories you can enter in your local clubs, and buy something thats best suited for your ability and for a little growth.
You could take the attitude that you can buy a bike for this next year, and then look to upgrade onto something newer the following year, but thats a decision you'll need to take.
Personally, whilst an SV650 is a good bike, you'll soon outgrow it's performance, and the contrast between one of those and even a 600 supersport bike is indeed dramatic.
Have a look at the club racing categories, then, maybe go down and speak to people there, see what the general consensus of the series is, how well attended the classes are, etc, etc. You may well find your happy to race a SV for many years, and just learn to ride better?
Bullet
-
I'm working all summer (seemingly endlessly) at getting weight off the bars, keeping speed while going into corners, and my new favorite in BP, OPENING MY HIPS TO THE TURN!! It's a great feeling, and whether it makes me faster or not, I won't know until the tracks open back up, but I feel much more comfortable going into corners.
So here is a question for you Hubbard....? Have you found that by opening your hips to the turn, it has helped with anything else as a reciprocal benefit...?
Bullet
-
I've never thought about adjusting rearsets to lock in with my heal. I've been riding with stock pegs, and have to adjust to the bike using the balls of my feet, so I don't know the feeling.
Hey Hubbard,
Thats exactly the challenge I have with the Yamaha's we use in the UK. I have to do exactly what you describe. I'm moving myself onto the balls of my feet to get a really good lock into the bike. Sometimes, you just have to make a compromise to get a result, but clearly race rearsets are better, more adjustable, and most importantly for me, much gripper in the footbed area, thats probably the most important thing I've found, wet or dry, you've got reliable grip.
Bullet
I looked like that though when I did it. 
Controlling Race Nerves
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Brilliant result there Hotfoot you must be so, so pleased. We're really proud of you!
A new hobby begins..! Hope your ready for the addiction that is!
Bullet