the razor
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Posts posted by the razor
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.sorry but i did not under stand: Are you flipping on the turns?
Are you turning the bike as fast as you can. I guess the right term is flick. Both of them has the same meaning. Turn quickly and effortlessly. I am sorry for my Spanglish.
Have you taken level I. I think it is session 3 where this subject is covered. If you have not I recommend you to do so. It is worth the money. You will never regret it.
Regards.
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Thanks for the reply. I have been riding with the front droped 1inch in the front and 1 1/4 in the rear with no issues with stability thus far. The bikes focus has changed from mostly straight lining to all twistys all the time. I think i may leave the front 1/4 inch down when i raise the bike up in preperation for spring track days. It is a rather large track bike but i ride the wife and the daughter almost always so they love it.
When you lowered both ends, and the astern most, you actually increased rake and trail, which are contributing factor for stability. Lowering the bike, OTOH, will decrease stability. Overall, the two probably more or less evened out.
I agree about leaving the front end slightly dropped and see how you like it.
I am not an expert on the subject. But I had my bike tuned up based on my weight and my type of riding. The sag, rebound and compresion were adjusted front and back. My question is, do you know the sag, rebound and compresion you have as of now. Remember the factory setting is set based in two person (rider and passenger). I personally will recomend you look for a place that does suspension and have it set up for you. Go and take it for a spin and come back for fine tunning. Good luck.
My two cents.
The razor.
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I'm definitely not a coach but it seems like you're running a little wide through most of those corners. That can really prevent you from getting on the throttle for a fast exit. You seemed to have an especially hard time entering turn 5 at :40 seconds. You charged into the corner pretty deep, had a hard time reaching the apex, and that prevented you from opening the throttle sooner. Its no where near 3.3 seconds worth of time but it might be a start. I could be completely wrong as well
.It looks like Fajita is right. Looking at the video you are taken a wide turning point. Also, Are you flipping on the turns.
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Razor,
You might try picking up the back end a little, or lowering lowering the front.
CF
Thanks Cobie.
I am going to lift the back and see what happen. Got to be on the spring though.
Too cold on the northeast.
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.To be specific, the way it reacts when cornering. By the way. I had the suspension set up with the factory tires. Questions: Why is there a change when cornering?
Can you elaborate more on what change you are seeing? Better? Worse? Just different?
Stevo. It is not turning as fast as it used bo be. I have to keep the pressure a lit bit longer on handle bar
to hit my apex. Before I just pushed and it was there. Now, if I do not keep the pressure a bit longer I get
a bit wide on the turn with the end result I am off the apex, not by much but still wide. Thanks for asking.
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I know Cobie is going to have a new section (I think) about tires. But since this question is related to tires I'd like to put it out there. I changed the brand of tires on my CBR1000RR. I used to have the factory bridgestone and after going to the CSS I went with the Q2. I noticed the change in handling from one tire to the other. To be specific, the way it reacts when cornering. By the way. I had the suspension set up with the factory tires. Questions: Why is there a change when cornering?. What is the corrective action so the Q2's corner as the factory brand?. Also, gripping is not a factor. OK. fellows let it reap. I am all ears. Thanks,
The razor.
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DMJ120.
Have you taken Level I. If you did I think you need to go over the techniques.
From the video, You were very closed to the center lane. In a few occasions you went over it.
I do not think it is a good idea. I've seen people go down when in a turn (leaning) the back tire has gone
when hitting the yellow line. Practice throttle control, turning point, apex, flipping.
Nice road though. Where is it.
Be safe.
The razor.
Yes, I have done level 1. I know my throttle control suffered a bit and I was actually trying to go line to line. The road is in Southern California (Sage Rd.), one of a few I just found, and it was during normal working hours - so there was very little traffic. My attempt was geared toward looking and trying to "read" the turns (using how close the DY and white lines appear). I had the idea of experiencing a more sweeping approach, using the whole lane, instead hitting apexes. This may be slightly less than desirable but it did give me a better sense of how much room I really have.
I'm getting pretty good with flicking the bike (still practice the L1 flick drill daily).
That video that Eirik posted is nuts.
Just keep practicing. Practice is the key to success. By the way, it is a nice road.
Good luck to you myfriend. Next, Level II.
Happy holidays.
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Of course, there is always this to remind us that we really are slow and boring farts when it comes to road riding - and to prove that white lines offer superior grip to yellow lines
http://www.duc.nu/mo...557451901197834
The amazing thing is that they manage to survive long enough to gain the amount of skill they have achieved
The question is how much longer can they survive riding on the road before
things happen. Remind me when I was in my teen's ridig motorcross until it happened.
But I am sure now a lot of people are going to be confident leaning on white lanes when turnigng.
Just a thought.
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Of course, there is always this to remind us that we really are slow and boring farts when it comes to road riding - and to prove that white lines offer superior grip to yellow lines
http://www.duc.nu/mo...557451901197834
The amazing thing is that they manage to survive long enough to gain the amount of skill they have achieved
The question
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After 3 round tips, following my friend, thought I'd set it up a bit and check some smooth-e-ness.
Rolled-off into a couple turns, but all-in-all, I think with some better vision skills it'll get better... wha'cha thin???
DMJ120.
Have you taken Level I. If you did I think you need to go over the techniques.
From the video, You were very closed to the center lane. In a few occasions you went over it.
I do not think it is a good idea. I've seen people go down when in a turn (leaning) the back tire has gone
when hitting the yellow line. Practice throttle control, turning point, apex, flipping.
Nice road though. Where is it.
Be safe.
The razor.
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Laptimes, while being able to see them to gauge improvement, weren't provided to us until the end of the school. While I did improve from 1:16's to 1:03's at the Vegas Classic course while attending, I didn't know until we were collecting the sheets at the end of day two. Ultimately I'd say it's a good overall, and not daily, way to gauge improvement.
We like to get them out every day, and are still piloting a new timing system, using RFID tags. Still some things to work out, but should be good when done.
I agreed 100% with rainman. When I took level I I did it to learn the drills and made the adjustments so I can correct my flows. I used a speed that allowed me to feel comfortable in all the drills. Toward the end I was much faster due to the fact I was executing the techniques much better. For me personally, time was not as important as to apply the correct techniques. Now I can go to the track and see how my laps have improved from session to session. As was explained here, there are going to be slower riders taken the classes that are going to affect of how fast you can go in a specific lap or session.
By the way not offense to anybody. Everybody has a different point of view (goals) when going to a track or a class.
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Is the school going to bring the lean Bike to Thunderbolt. I am planning to take level II and III.
Just want to know if I am going to be able to ride it.
Razor;
I know from cornerworking there this past season that the School does bring it to NJMP. They run the off track drills in the paddock beyond the end of the garages.
Rainman
Rainman is of course correct, we do run it there. Can't do the slide bike though, not enough room. Also, can't run it in the wet, the original crash test dummy (me) found out exactly what happens when you ride it in the wet--you slide off the back as it spins past 180. Was pretty entertaining really.
CF
Thanks Rainman and CF for your answer. Looking forward to trying the lean bike even if it is for a couple of try. I hope we do not get rain on the day I take level II or level III for that matter. Looking forward to going back to NJMS. Maybe I get lucky and I get Cobie as my coach.
Thanks again guys.
the razor
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Is the school going to bring the lean Bike to Thunderbolt. I am planning to take level II and III.
Just want to know if I am going to be able to ride it.
Thanks
The razor.
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Dear Superbike Riders,
I have something weird that happens on corner entrances--this is on the street, riding my 650cc Burgman with an automatic clutch, but I have felt the same things on my 1200. This is tough to describe, but I'll do my best. Here goes.
- I feel confident on the bike when I enter a turn dragging a little front brake--trail braking.
- I feel good on the bike when I've set my speed BEFORE my turn point, and I enter the turn with maintenance throttle already on (NOT accelerating--just holding the throttle steady).
- I feel scared and tippy when I enter a corner off the throttle and off the brakes. The bike feels more like it is falling over than tipping in under my control. I'm also afraid of the JOLT I'll get when I try to get back on the throttle. This jolt is really just a little jerk, and I'm trying hard to be smooth, but that drive-line-lash/off-on-throttle thing is very uncomfortable. It doesn't help that I try to get back on the throttle to arrest my lean, so the jolt happens just as I'm at my lowest lean angle. Strangely enough, I seem to have better throttle control when I'm easing off the brake and onto the gas. (I wonder if the turning forces mask the feelings of acceleration.)
Sometimes I think this happens when I'm just turning in too darned slowly, or when my eyes are too close to the front tire (also causing the entrance speed to be very slow), but even when I try to get it right, entering the turn off the throttle and the brakes feels uncomfortable.
Am I doing it wrong?
Do I HAVE to be off brakes and throttle to make a good entrance (certainly not necessary at the posted speed limit)?
Does anyone else get this scary "falling in" feeling?
Crash. You have a lot of pointers already. One thing it seems to me, you are a street rider. So am I. One thing I do when I go riding, when I am apporaching a corner, I look for an estimate reference point. Then When I am close to it I start looking for the apex. the apex is the one that dictates exactly my turning point. (soft turn, shap turn, etc.) I use the flick technique on the street. Remember that there is a big difference between a race track where you go over the same turns a few times and when you go on the street. If you go over the same street over and over and you know exactly the TP, apex and exits, then you can concentrate on the TP. Otherwise, It is going to be by instinct. ( I remember Dylan, telling us in level one, when approaching a corner Keep looking and looking until you see the apex then turn. The turn could be a flick of the bike or not according to the speed you are traveling. this technique helped me a lot on the street. Also I remember Peter telling me to relax on the turns, and boy what a difference it made). By doing that I can feel and undestand the bike like I have never. It also dictates the corner speed I am using. If I do not know the corner(s), I use a speed I feel confident with, therefore I can turn no matter what type of turn it is avoiding the brakes . Also, it dictates how aggresive I am going to be with the throttle once I commit to the turn. After taken Level I, my confidence has increase 110%. Just giving you my experience as a street rider and how I have adapted the CSS class to my type of riding. Good luck to you
The razor
55 STAY ALIVE
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Hello everyone!
I've just signed up here and would like to get some good advice. About 4 months ago i bought my first "big" bike which is 09 zx6r. I've read alot of things about cornering including Twist of the wrist but lately i've got a feeling that i,m going backwards. Is it because i'm thinking about too many things when approaching th turn(counter stering , lean angle , hanging off the bike , keepping my weight on the oposit footpeg , looking into the turn). maybe i should concentrate on one thing at the moment and when i'm confident with it move on to the next one , if that's the case which one of those is most important for a beginner? Or maybe i should get different bike because someone told me lately that supersports and superbikes are not good for learners because of the body position. Any advice would be appreciated:)
Y4C4. Welcome to the forum. Regarding your question(s). I think you are trying to do too much at once. You should concentrate in one technique at a time, then start adding as you progress. You can follow the TOW instructions as they are written. Remember, when we start learning how to walk we start one step at a time. Better yet, Why don't you take the classes at CSS. Believe me it is worth the money and the time.
Good luck to you and hope I am able to help you a little bit.
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Fossifuel.
Prompt and good recovery. Unfortunately accident happens, we just have to learn from it.
I hope your bones heal well and keep the spirit and confidence that you have on yourself.
Good luck to you.
The razor.
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VERY interesting idea, trying on helmets without the cheekpads!!!! I went into the local shop today but found they didnt stock Suomy, will be trying it soon but like all helmets, what fits brilliantly for one headshape *may* not be so goodfor another... but the vertical vision is something I'm dead keen to "see" for myself. Thanks guys.
To everybody out there.
I spoke about the new Suomy apex model. Good vision etc. Well, I got the apex Fabrizio model, I tried it at 90+ miles and eventhough the helmet is very light with good vision, the aerodynamic it is not good. I guess it is good to go around the city and some twisties but when it gets down to go on the straight away I do not recommend it. You are going to find the shield against your face, like I found out. Therefore, my first comment was made just trying the helmet on and sitting on the bike. But After I rode with the helmet and pushed the throttle hard I was dissapointed at a high speed. Just letting you know if you guys want to buy the Soumy's apex model. I recommend find out who has one and ask him for you to try it. Since I bought mine I will be using it just for local rides. I hope nobody bought the helmet based on my first opinion.
Sorry.
The razor.
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Cobie. I am not an expert on the matter. I have Shoei, Arai and a Scorpion until I tried the new Suomy Apex.
I just order the Fabrizio Model. It is unbelievable the difference. When I tried it. I was very impressesd with the field of vision up and down. They recommend if you are a large try the Xlarge. I am large and I tried the L and it fits like a glove, go figures. When I lean on my bike (guess what) I can see what is in front of me very far without tilting my head up.. With the others I can see in front of me but not as much, I have to tilt my head up to see ahead.
Try them and see if you like them. I will buy from now on Suomy. The apex is the new thing and they are super light also.
Regards.
The razor
Nice info!!! Thanks Razor.
Anyone else experimented with leaning their head to let them look 'up' the track/road easier?
I get a lot of help from you guys, I think it is time I give a little back. Please, try the new soumy's, They are called apex model (the new generation of suomy's) wich has different styles as far as painting. But it is a different feeling and fit. I love them. Just go to a store that carries them I try them on. I never tried a helmet so light.
Regards.
The razor.
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I commute on my bike most of the time, and when I'm really riding on the street, or am not thinking about it while riding on the street, my knee habitually comes out. Nowhere near the ground, but it just does it.
On the track I've gotten into the habit of having my knee out just before where the hard parts drag as a warning. On a 2.75 mile, 21 turn course, I drag my knee on 2-3 of them on any given lap. Unless I know where the photographers are.
When I'm working on increasing my entry speed in a particular corner, once I'm at full lean, I'll put my knee out to let me know how much more speed I can carry through that corner. Sometimes I've got a few inches, sometimes my knee was hovering just above the ground.
As long as your knee is farther out than your hard parts, it's a matter of comfort.
Thank you carles 3 and jasonzilla for your input. I really appreciate your opinion.
I do not know how but I have a pretty good idea of how much lean I have when I am on the street. Race track is a lot different due to the fact there are some corners that you really have to lean. I hope when I take level 3 I get that straighten it out.
Thanks again guys and be safe.
The razor.
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Ace,
Maybe it could be an issue, I'll talk to some helmet guys and see what they say. Most of the of the shelf helmets I have used, have not fit me well. When we got ours "fitted" by a pro, they just used some foam too. Also, not sure how more foam would be a minus unless it was so much that one's head was in a weird place.
Worth looking in too, but it's been a big hit with the students, stunned when they can see when before they couldn't.
CF
Cobie. I am not an expert on the matter. I have Shoei, Arai and a Scorpion until I tried the new Suomy Apex.
I just order the Fabrizio Model. It is unbelievable the difference. When I tried it. I was very impressesd with the field of vision up and down. They recommend if you are a large try the Xlarge. I am large and I tried the L and it fits like a glove, go figures. When I lean on my bike (guess what) I can see what is in front of me very far without tilting my head up.. With the others I can see in front of me but not as much, I have to tilt my head up to see ahead.
Try them and see if you like them. I will buy from now on Suomy. The apex is the new thing and they are super light also.
Regards.
The razor
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.Hi Razor,
Well, I see nothing wrong with not sticking your knee all the way out, if you feel it's not detracting from your riding in anyway, why change? For my own riding, I find I use the knee only as a guide for lean angle, i.e. when it hits, I know I'm leaning quite a long way, and I don't have lots of lean angle left. I personally have a tendency of just finding lean angle, then brining it in a little anyway. I can make a set of knee sliders last about 2 seasons because of this.
So, if you're body is well aligned as in the pic, your relaxed and going with the bike not fighting it, I personally see little wrong with keeping the knee in a little, it certainly doesn't make much in the way of cornering speed difference one way or the other.
Bullet
Thanks Bullet for you input. The thing is, I do not feel confortable when I open my leg all the way. By doing that my attention goes to if I am leaning to much etc. I feel much comfortable with the position like the one in the picture. I will see when I take level 2 and 3 what is going to happen with my body position. Having said that. I want to thank you and to tell you that I appreciate your input which is well taken. Good luck to you.
The razor.
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I've been riding for a long time. I did some racing back in my days (way back). With the new techniques and equipment nowdays. I had to learn and still learning so I can be more secure and more efficient when I ride. I am a street rider per say. I took level one and I am getting ready to take Level 2 and 3 early next year. It is something I am doing to be a better rider and for my own pleasure. It is like a dream come true. I am not a kid anymore unfortunately, Having said that. I have a question to everybody out there with more experience than me on the subject. When I ride on the street I do switch my body position when cornering. Also, I use my shoulder as a pointer sort of speak. (push the shouldedr to the corner right or left). It is a modest switch but a switch after all. My problem is I do not open completely my leg (angle). I do it to some degree but not to drag my knee to the ground. Whar are the advantages and disanvantages between semi open to open leg. Considering I ride 99% on the street. My confidence in cornering is 100%. I learned to approach, pick line , apex and exit on a corner and also how to be relaxed , I practice throttle control and speed in which I enter a corner. Lots of practice though. I hope I did not bother you guys with the story of my life. But I am curious to hear what you guys have to say on the matter. I keep my knee like the one in the red bike. As you can see in the picture below, there are two different style. the one with the open leg the other is not quite opened.
Thanks
The razor.
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Howdy all , I am signed up for Streets of Willow this coming 23rd and 24th ! Can't wait but guess I got to! Now all I have to figure out is what to tell work so I can get off early the friday before.
Congratulation JazMan.
You are goin to have fun with the CSS group. Bunch of nice people that are going to make your track day enjoyable. As far as what to do to get out of work early. I usually start getting sick two days before I get a sick day. But that is me. Good luck in getting out early and enjoy the ride.
The razor.
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The replies I have received in my Uh-Oh topic made me think. This in itself is about as rare as moon-landings, so I do hope you appreciate the significance
Again, I know I use too many words, but although it must be tiresome to the point of being ignored by most - or all - readers, it do help me writing things down.Apart from the CB1100F, which was totally unruffled by anything I or the road could throw at it but also increadibly heavy to steer, the bike that gave me the most confidence was my 1979 Kawasaki Z400G. This was the cast wheel version of the standard twin. Of the claimed 36 horses, I expect around 27 remained based upon actual performance. Which was enough to play Mike Hailwood in a sensible manner over gnarly backroads, but a bit short when trying to pass an 18-wheeler up an incline while facing a gale. A lot short, actually, to the point that you probably wouldn't try it
After upgrading the chassis with 40 mm longer (1.5 in.) KONI shock absorbers with adjustable rebound damping and 25 mm higher oil level in the front forks as well as drilling out the compression damper holes to 6 mm and use 25 weight fork oil instead of the stock 10W, all the better to increase compliance and control, both the chassis and the suspension handled quite admireably for such an old steed. The suspension was fairly supple, yet controlled, cornering clearance matched the grip of the narrow tyres (3.00 front and 3.50 rear) and steering was incredibly light and direct. And the whole thing was also stable and would track wherever it was pointed without further inputs. I could literally corner at the bike's limit (with my hopeless style) and still everything felt like slow motion, giving me time to look around and taking in the scenery while leaned way over.
It didn't just feel rapid around the bends, it actually was. Along with the CB1100 and a VT500 Ascot that was raised even further than the Z400, this was the bike that allowed me to corner the fastest around the sort of low-speed bends I prefer (sub-60 mph). And also, like the the two Hondas, there weren't scary moments because even going fast (for me) things felt calm and relaxed. I was utterly confident in them bikes.
Today, things are different. I have never been overly confident in my current bike. I do not know exactly what's wrong, but I suspect that the rear suspension and overall geometry is involved. The Daytona 900 is a very, very heavy and slow steering motorcycle. Just getting it off the sidestand took some serious effort. I have never ridden a stock Thunderbird, so I do not know how it is, but it was much easier to get off the stand. My bike runs the wheels, brakes and front end from the Daytona fitted to the frame and rear suspension from the Thunderbird. I also run the Thunderbird triple clamps. The rear sits significantly lower than on the Daytona, making the bike sit lower overall. As a result, the bike is downright twitchy and getting it off the sidestand takes virtually no effort.
So instead of letting the bike do the work, I find myself guiding it all the time. I also have to be on the outlook for bumps on the road because it acts a bit like cruisers if bumps are encountered mid-corner; it tends to be pushed upright and head straight. In many ways, it's one of the lesser handling bikes - especially for confidence - that I have ridden. I do hope that fitting the suspension from the Daytona will rectify much of these issues.
In conclusion (do I even have the ability to conclude, you may wonder) I have realised today just how important confidence is when it comes to riding well - and also how much more fun it is to ride a bike that always does what you expect.
Hi Eirik.I am glad you feel confident. But do not get too over-confident my friend.. One thing I have notice since my confidence increased (after taken level I) is that my survival response (SR) has vanished to a point that it is almost non-existing. I have been able to control my nerves in a couple situations that I have been impressed the way I did it. Just applying the techniques I learned. I am learning more every day I ride about my bike, the way it handles on the turns, I can tell when it is and it is not in sinc and I can correct it right away. How to control the throttle accordingly to the turns, etc. But back in my mind I always keep the big if. In that way I am always in my toes in case the unexpect occurs. Having said that. Congrats again. I can tell that you are concentrating on how your bike handles which is a big part of riding. By knowing this you now how to react to a differrent turns and situations and how the bike is going to react. Top it in off with the Keith Code techniques of cornering you are going to be amazed of how smooth your are going to be. As you can see I did not say fast I said smooth.
Smooth is fast my friend.
My regards and keep it going.
Be safe
The razor.
Trying To Get Near Or Brake The Lap Record
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Kai I was refering as how quick he is taken the turn and did not mention leaning. The time I've been on the track I use quick turn (session 3 Level I) and I always hit my apex. And it is because the speed on the track is faster than the speed on the street. If I just push the handle bar I end up wide. In any moment in my point of view I mentioned leaning. I mentioned turnig. Which is why I was refering to. Just for clarification.