bradvanhorn
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Posts posted by bradvanhorn
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Looking at the picture, looks like very little pressure on the brake lever...wonder if most of this could be a slight bump and coming out of the throttle.
A bounce off that curbing perhaps?
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There isn't a spot for just the bike alone, so I picked this subforum as the best place. And this is what followed me home today
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I've been using a Pilot back protector (http://www.pilotleathers.com/back_protector.html) but I'm thinking of switching to something more like the Force Field chest+back setup (http://www.forcefieldbodyarmour.com/product/extreme-harness-flite/2349). I crash tested my Pilot back protector my very first track day wearing it; I think it did fine given the main the area I damaged was at the neck and above the protector.
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This discussion has become much more relevant now that I've finished my day with CSS at VIR. Wednesday I did Level 3 and Cobie was coaching me. I was feeling really good about everything I was doing and each session I was adding another small increment of pace. In a couple corners Cobie noticed I was cracking the throttle just before turning the bike. My read on it was I was so comfortable with my speed I was ready to get into the gas early so I was starting my roll just a fraction before tipping in. It didn't cause me any issues since my pace is still rather modest, but we corrected the matter so it wouldn't develop into a habit. I then discovered a beneficial side effect from this detection/correction and that was even more improvement with my quick turn. Since I was ready to get on the gas faster, I found myself turning the bike faster. It felt very well synchronized by the end of the day and I felt much more confident than ever before.
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Gpz 500
Zx 11
Zx 9
Triumph daytona t595
Ducati 996s ( still own )
Ktm duke ii
Zzr 1200
Z1000 ( still own )
Zx 14 ( still own )
Hmm, there seems to be a Kawasaki theme here
The last week or two I've been looking at a 2010 Z1000 as a single replacement for my VMAX and R6. Do you have the latest Z1000 or an older generation? Have you had the Z1000 on the track? If so, what are your thoughts? Actually any comments would be appreciated
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It is good you enjoy pinning the throttle and enjoying some speed rush. I think if you change your reference points and begin to roll out of the throttle and start braking a little bit sooner, then you should have your speed better set in time to hit your turn-in point. Properly applied, this should get you turned and back on the gas sooner, give you a better drive out of the corner, and allow you pin it even sooner. As Jason mentioned, the two-step can help with this.
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thinking about another thread on GP riding and squaring off corners, how much can we take from watching the GP guys in this respect? They're riding bikes more powerful than we ever will (plus a bucketload of onboard electronics), and they're aiming for the fastest lap times by getting back on the power at the earliest possible point rather than the highest corner speed. The end product is a fast lap time, but is this the same product you could use on, say, a 600? I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, or maybe I'm just being dim!
I understand your comments and I think it is very fair to consider the pros are operating at a level most of us can barely imagine let alone execute. However, it seems to me that with regard to brake/throttle/lean, it is merely different perspective on the same application. All things considered, I think we all want to get slowed down, turned, and back on the gas as quickly as the situation permits - how we each execute that process is merely a function of personal skill level. Or maybe I'm not explaining my thoughts well either
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One thing I really like on MotoGP coverage is when they show one of the bike-mounted camera views and superimpose a graphic showing how much throttle or brake the rider is using. Assuming they show enough of a given riders camera view, you can see in a given corner from start to finish where they come off the gas, come on the brakes, go off the brakes, and get on the gas. I try to watch those scenes very carefully because I am fascinated at what they are doing. My sense is they brake very deep in the turn and get a quick, smooth roll-on of the gas as soon as they are off the brakes. Once they are on the gas they are bringing the bike quickly upright and they are pinning the throttle. I have a few recorded races to watch this weekend and I'll look again for things I may have missed or othewise not considered.
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The Pitbull restraint system is the best thing on the market! Period. We have a 7X12 trailer that is loaded for this weekend with 5 motorcycles and a 4 wheeler. You can use every inch of available space if you don't have to strap the bike down....
I've heard that one is awesome but doesn't it have to be hard mounted to the trailer? I don't own a trailer (storage issues) so I need to be flexible with my mounting hardware.
I'm not criticizing the Pit-Bull system (they clearly have a following), but the generalized concensus I've seen thus far is the original Strapless Transport Stand still has the edge vs. the others. I have searched for reviews of the various strapless systems numerous times, and given the limited info I found it is hard to say any one system is definitively better than another, but each user has to assess the applications for each system and decide which best fits their needs. And, from what I've seen (and it almost seems too obvious) all of the strapless systems require hard mounting.
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Hotfoot described it nicely. Put the front wheel in a wheel chock, Canyon Dancers on the bars, four tie down points. I do use ratchet straps, but you do not want to over-tighten them or you could do harm to your suspension. I put two straps to the Canyon Dancers, which then pull primarily forward and down. The other two straps I secure near the foot pegs or where the subframe connects to the frame (depends on the bike design and where there is a handy point to hook into), and these pull outward and a little forward. I don't use Black & Gray products, but I do essentially follow their recommendations (with a few deviations) (http://www.blackandg...905998c61e4ea49).
I have not tried Strapless Stands (http://www.ststands.com/main.cfm), but they look like an excellent idea to me. When I buy my trailer I may go this route.
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Sounds like I need to sign up for school. CSS that is.
Do it!
Totally worth every penny. -
I don't think there is an absolute right or wrong in this, but after a little consideration three things came to my mind. You can't pivot steer if you're emphasizing pulling. Pulling feels to me like a natural way to force yourself to be crossed-up. Push left go left seems logical to me (once you've accepted countersteering), whereas pull right go left seems awkward. There is some subtlety and finesse in all this, but my opinion is to push.
And, some might even think it's more intuitive to pull the bar in the direction you want to go.I'm missing something here... You don't pull the bar in the direction you want to go
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I have to update my list since I've recently made a few changes.
Former bikes (in the order I owned them):
1986 Honda VF 500
1987 Yamaha FZR 1000
1991 Honda CBR 1000
1992 Honda CB-1 (400cc) (traded into this one after my second Reckless Driving conviction)
1995 Suzuki Bandit 600
1997 Suzuki TL 1000S
2000 Suzuki SV 650
2001 Suzuki TL 1000R
2003 Triumph Daytona 955i
2004 Yamaha FZ1
2005 Honda VTX 1800 (my first attempt at a cruiser; yuck)
2006 Suzuki GSXR 600
2005 Honda VFR 800
2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000 (totalled out after I crashed at VIR)
2003 Honda RC51
2005 Suzuki GSXR 750
2000 Yamaha VMAX
2007 Yamaha R6
Bikes I still own:
2012 Triumph Speed Triple
2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (technically it's my wifes
)2009 Kawasaki ZX-6R
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Steve: Sorry if this has been asked already -- I looked, but could not find this question asked or answered.
Does it make any sense to use tire warmers on a Q2 -- I'm considering doing my first novice race and would like to be able to avoid two laps to warm them up. I know it is a street/track tire and have heard that it is either a bad idea to use warmers on these types of tires or that it doesn't do anything to help out with traction even at the early stages -- but as with everything else there are too many myths out there for me to know. If it does make sense, should one use low or high temp on a dual temp warmer?
I want to go with D211GPAs next tire change, but I think I still have 2 or 3 more track/race days on the Q2s that are currently on the bike. Thus far Q2s have been giving me very good traction with no problems at the speeds I can currently ride, but I always gradually build speed the first 2 laps on track days to warm them up. If a warmer would alow me to ride a little harder for the first two laps in a race, I may choose to use them in that first race. Otherwise, I guess I have to go to those D211GPAs sooner.
Steve actually answered this question for me, even though I was asking something different at the time
. Note: I noticed you mentioned "I was planning on getting Q2's.... mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers", I don't know where you got the idea that Q2 does not need warmers and other tires do. All the warmers do is give you the opportunity to go fast on the fist 2 laps, instead of taking 2 warm-up laps. All the warmer does is put heat in the tire so you don't have to on the first 2 warm-up laps.You can run a racing tire on a track day without warmers with no problems, as long as you take 2 laps to warm it up before you get going fast.
Although it likely would benefit us for Steve to provide his usual wisdom, I think this provides the info you were looking for. Use the warmers if you don't want to use laps to warm the tires, regardless of whether it's Q2's or D211GPA's.
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It's a great and often asked question there Brad! We teach you the method of locking on that is easiest, that is using the outside quad muscles anchored to the tank.
You might see Rossi or Lorenzo use this great method, but there there are many others who use a different method that works for them, i.e. Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible.
I.e. Our way isn't the only way, but once you try it at one of our Level 3 schools I'm pretty sure you'll think it's the best way.
It is pretty wild to see one of the MotoGP guys almost lose it at full lean in a high speed corner, their outside leg practically pointed up in the air, and they just roll right through. It's quite amazing, and I can't imagine how they are able to hold on
.I've already been thoroughly indoctrinated in the CSS method of locking on
. I've completed levels 1-2, got part way through level 3 (then crashed), and have done two U.S. Marine Corps programs - ARTD (a few tech briefs and a few sessions riding around a small "track") and AMOS (two days, bits of level 1-2, plus some USMC-specific requirements, also done on a small "track") - which are contracted to CSS. I've received the most coaching from Lonnie (but Cobie, Pete, JT, and James have worked with me too), and I got the locking on education from him (them) early on . -
I understand pivot steering and locking on to the bike, but where this is really raising my interest is in watching the MotoGP and World Superbike races. I have a bunch of 2010 races still on my Tivo, and tonight I was watching the first Silverstone World Superbike race. Looking closely at these pro riders in mid-turn, they appear to have a very relaxed outside knee and foot, often not even in contact with the bike, except maybe for the boot sole touching the peg. How are they holding on to the bike
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Well, I just assumed you have to be one of those "Fast Guys" to appreciate the GPA's!!!!
Truth of the matter I have less than two days on my new set of Q2. I was just going to follow Keiths' advice and stick with the Q2 as he seemed to be a big fan. Having said that, I need to buy a new set regardless so I will give the GPAs' a try. Thanks for your great feedback on the forum, you've shed quite a lot of light on this VOODOO subject
max
Please let us know how you like the GPAs when you get around to trying them. I'd be interested to hear what you think.
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I would go with the 190/55x17 Q2 on the 6.0" rim.
But I must ask; With a special rim that is wider than stock, why would you not step up to a higher performance tire like the D211GPA? You have upgraded the rims, why not the tires? If you paid for special rim, why not get better tires. Consider it.
Steve
Well I didn't ask, but you have me convinced nonetheless. I'm going to the 211GPA for my newly acquired track bike when I next replace the tires.
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Why settle down (unless you have taken a beating on the sales).
CF
Hmmm, that's a good point
Now that I look closer at my list I see there's no BMW, Kawasaki, Ducati, KTM, Aprilia... I'm glad my wife hid the checkbook
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This is an interesting topic...
Former bikes (in the order I owned them):
1986 Honda VF 500
1987 Yamaha FZR 1000
1991 Honda CBR 1000
1992 Honda CB-1 (400cc) (traded into this one after my second Reckless Driving conviction)
1995 Suzuki Bandit 600
1997 Suzuki TL 1000S
2000 Suzuki SV 650
2001 Suzuki TL 1000R
2003 Triumph Daytona 955i
2004 Yamaha FZ1
2005 Honda VTX 1800 (my first attempt at a cruiser; yuck)
2006 Suzuki GSXR 600
2005 Honda VFR 800
2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000 (totalled out after I crashed at VIR)
(update: sold) 2003 Honda RC51
(update: sold) 2005 Suzuki GSXR 750 (track only bike)
Bikes I still own (in the order purchased):
2000 Yamaha VMAX
(update: bought) 2007 Yamaha R6
Hmmm, that's a fair number of bikes I've bought and sold. I need to settle down one of these days
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Thank you for those comments Steve, and the specific note on tire warmers clarified that misconception for me.
I do still wonder if it makes sense to pick a higher grade track tire, and my question about grip vs. wear vs. cost still lingers. More specifically your comment about the N-Tec tire caught my attention, "This tire will last longer and grip better, for more laps, than anything available." I explained it to my wife like so, "if 211GPA's cost $360 a set and would last me 6 track days, and if N-Tec's cost $496 per set and would last me 8 track days, then the question of cost is probably irrelevent, since they come out more or less equal over time."
Given my riding ability (slow, beginner), and my expectation of doing a lower number of track days (probably 5 or less this year) I assume I won't burn up tires at a rapid rate (this could be a false assumption). However, I've never had to consider tires in this way, so I have no personal data to use for tire life comparison. I guess my question can be rephrased: can you make a rough guess for the Q2 vs. 211GPA vs. N-Tec as to cost vs. # of track days for the life of the tire? (Perhaps it is easier to pick winning lottery numbers...)
I do a fair amount of data analysis as part of my real job, so yes, I am probably over analyzing the tire question
. On the other hand, this info could make my life much easier when I have to ask my wife to pay the bill on an expensive set of new tires .Thanks!
Brad
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Wow, this is really great information.
I recently bought a 2005 GSXR 750 which was salvaged and rebuilt as a track bike, so it will not be street legal and I can run whatever tires make sense for track days. I am pretty slow and I don't plan to race (I suppose that could change), so I'm mostly interested in finding tires which will give reasonable grip and wear for track day adventures. Although I have ambitions to ride more often, I will guess that for the time being I probably won't get in more than 5-6 track days in a riding season. I was planning on getting Q2's when I next replace the tires, and mainly because they have good rep, don't require tire warmers, and they are lower price, but I'm wondering if one of the race tires would be a better choice since I don't have to worry about street use. I'm not rich by any means, but I can afford any of the tires mentioned, provided they don't wear out too quickly, and I could get tire warmers if that was a necessity for use of race-only vs. Q2's. So now that I've qualified my usage, I have two questions:
- Which tire is likely to give me the best combination of grip and wear for the amount I'd spend?
- (not to create a controversy, but...) If I wanted one of the race-only tires, where is a good place to buy them?
Thanks!
Brad
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What a fantastic article! I definitely overlooked this article until just yesterday. I read it yesterday and again today, and probably will again tomorrow. I can feel my brain working overtime to absorb this...