bradvanhorn
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Posts posted by bradvanhorn
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Congratulations on the new ride! You need to bring that to VIR in Aug
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I suggest you try a Bridgestone tire; I have seen great comments and reviews for all three tires you mentioned - the BT023 (sport touring), BT016 and BT003 (premium sport tire). I have not used Shinko tires, but the few people I know who tried them were disappointed when compared with Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli, Metzeler tires. Below is a link for a US-based tire test from 2010 which, although not all-inclusive, appears well done for the circumstances and includes a good number of tires to consider. From what I have read and heard I think you will appreciate the Bridgestones far more than the Shinkos. Let us know how it turns out.
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Hello all! I have a question that seems silly but I have to ask anyway. I am taking level one this September at NJMP!!!! I do not want to miss anything in the class session but at the same time I would like to have detailed notes from the class. Does the school have anything that you use during the class sessions that you take with you when the day is done? I am worried about forgetting what I learn in class. Especially being the end of the riding season in New England(MASS) I will not have a lot of time to practice what I have learned. I hated homework in school but something tells me I won't mind this homework! Any insight or your experience would help.
I you haven't already, I suggest you buy the Twist of the Wrist and Twist of the Wrist II books. These are great for priming your brain before a class and for refreshing the memory afterwards.
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Try 5% faster around each bend and see where it gets you
That's just about the same thought I was having yesterday... I'll be on the track tomorrow and we'll see what happens
Finished a track day at VIR (South course) yesterday. It was brutally hot/humid and nearly everyone cut sessions short, skipped a session or two, or just plain quit early. It was my first track day of the year (I'm not counting my two CSS days at NOLA), my first track day on my 2012 Triumph Speed Triple, and my second time on VIR South. I did not want to wreck my new bike so I was not pushing very hard.
What I discovered was, for me, the turns with roughly 90 deg or less radius were easier to try to gain some speed without feeling threatened. The longer radius turns (roughly 120 to 180 deg) were harder to gain speed without quickly lighting up SRs. I'm struggling to find the right words... basically: the shorter radius turns were easier to add a little speed, regardless of whether the corner was fast or slow (there essentially were a couple of each); the longer radius turns were harder to add a little speed, and these turns were slow(er).
How does this fit with slow vs. fast and where to try for more speed? I'm not sure... With a short radius it didn't seem to make much difference; with the longer radius, the slow turns lit up SRs in a hurry. Maybe the radius of the turn makes the difference? I'd like to know what others have experienced...
Two other points: I had to be a bit cautious with my 2d gear roll-ons or I'd immediately wheelie, which made for lots of big grins but didn't help me go faster
And, trying to hide behind the tiny flyscreen at 120+ mph is comical -
Try 5% faster around each bend and see where it gets you
That's just about the same thought I was having yesterday... I'll be on the track tomorrow and we'll see what happens
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the faster you are going the less of a impact 1 MPH will have on your time over a given distance
The corollary then might (should?) be: the slower you are going the more impact 1 mph will have on your time over a given distance.
I think that unless you have a garage full of tech's that are tweaking your GPS based fuel maps and reviewing your segment times you can pretty much stick to the old advice of "Go fast in the fast corners"If the corollary is true (even partially) then "go fast in the fast corners" is incongruent because you stand to gain more from going fast in slower corners.
On the other hand, I'm just going give up and agree with Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go fast!"
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The time difference for a small increment in speed is independent of the initial speed.
Let v = initial speed, A = max. lat acceleration, theta = turn angle (90deg in your example)
The radius for the given speed and lat acceleration is r = v^2 / A.
The length of the circ segment L = (pi) (theta / 180) r = (pi) (theta / 180) (v^2) / A
The time for the segment t = L / v = (pi) (theta / 180) (v) / A
Take the derivative, dt / dv = (pi) (theta / 180) / A
For a small change in speed dv, the change in time dt = (pi) (theta / 180) dv / A.
Example (Turn 1):
theta = 90 deg
A = 0.8g = 7.848 m/s^2
dv = 1 mi/h = 0.447 m/s
dt = (3.14159) (90 / 180 ) (0.447 m/s) / ( 7.848 m /s^2 ) = 0.0895 s
This illustrates why I became a political science major...
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...is a 1 mph difference in speed as significant to a rider in a 100 mph turn as in a 25 mph one? Does adding 1 mph in each case have equivalent effects on the sensations in the turn and the rider's state of mind?
I've been pondering this question for a while this afternoon... My gut reaction is there is little difference. If 25 mph really is your personal limit in a given corner, then 26 mph might light off all kinds of SRs - likewise going 101 mph in a 100 mph corner. Honestly though, I don't think my sense of speed is sharp enough to recognize a 1 mph difference - I'm think perhaps 5 mph or more before it gets my attention.
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Having ridden NOLA recently and going to VIR (South Course unfortunately) this weekend, this topic got me looking at track maps to find out just how long corners really are. From what I saw of the VIR maps, I was midly surprised to find most corners were roughly 150 ft to 300 ft in length. Also, the longer corners generally look like slower corners (such as 180 deg turns). Obviously this was but a very small sampling of track layout...
Another thing that came to mind, which I think has some relevance, is where racers frequently pass. It seems to me, and I don't race so this is only by spectator observation, most racers are passing in the slower corners. I could well be wrong but I assume this is partly because they can go in just a bit faster (whether through late braking, slipstreaming, etc.) with less effort. I assume trying to outgun another rider at 120+ mph takes a whole lot more power than that needed at 60-ish mph.
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Budget is the key here I assume... When I bought my track gear I did it this way: Helmet, then gloves + boots, then leather suit + back protector. I was trying to break up the costs and it worked to a small degree. In the long run it probably would've been just as simple to buy all at once, but it would've been painful to see the credit card bill.
I suggest your best bet is to find a big store to try on some gear so you can find which manufacturers fit you best. If that's no option then you'll probably have to guess at what you want based on your budget. If you call and consult with an internet company such as SportbikeTrackGear (http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/StoreFront.bok), then I suspect they could steer you to gear that will give you the best protection for the amount of money you have to spend.
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Nothing sounds, nor feels like a Ducati...
Or a Triumph Speed Triple
Had a blast today riding my S3 (under the watchful eyes of Pete) at our ARTD coach training. As good as the S1000RR is, there's zero chance I'd give up my S3 for one... although I must concede I have a neck issue and race bike ergos truly torture me.
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It seems to me current riders are getting more upper body off the bike whereas older riders were getting more butt off the bike. For example, I did a quick search to compare pics of Doohan with pics of Lorenzo - Doohan's elbow looks to be directly above his knee and with a clear space between, whereas Lorenzo's knee and elbow nearly are at the same level and touching. More upper body getting low = more better
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As for fit, do what I didn't do and go to a big shop that carries multiple lines and try different ones on.
This is great advice. What works for others is just as likely not to work for you. Trying on helmets of different brand, size and style will help you find what's right for your head.
Right now I have a Shoei X-12 and an Arai Quantum/f. I started 20+ years ago with a Bell and quickly switched to a Shoei. Then later I switched to an Arai. I've primarily worn Arai for the last 15+ years. When I crashed in 2010 my insurance paid to replace my helmet. Shoei had just got the X-12 to market so I decided to take a chance. It fits well, no pressure points or the like, is light and aerodynamic. However, I don't feel air moving like I would prefer, even though it has lots of vents, the eye port doesn't seem quite tall enough (if that makes sense), and it really just doesn't cradle my head quite the way my Arai does. Last weekend on a back road ride I wore the Shoei and today during our coach training I wore the Arai - I'm about to sell the Shoei and get another Arai.
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Brad- 1st gen bandit 600. THe later bandits and SVs have a wider 3.5" rim, thus my problem with the 3" rim.
Ah, please pardon my mistake... don't know where I came up with SV650...
1st gen Bandit 600... I rode one of those for a while in the mid-90's. It was a great commuter bike; never did attempt any spirited riding on it though.
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Brad:
Not sure about sizes. The stock sizes are 110/70-17 and 150/70-17, but the best Dunlop available is the older GT501. I know a lot of guys use a 160/60-17 rear OK, but not sure about the front with the skinny 3" rim. If I don't go the 120/60-17 route for the Q2s, I'll probably throw on Diablo Rosso IIs as they are seem to be the highest-performing street tire available in the stock sizes.
The concensus I've seen from the SV650 guys (your's is an SV650 right?) is 120/70 and 160/60. 170 and 180 rears are generally acknowledged as "too hard to do" in stock configurations. The 120/60 front also is noted as being fine, but a quick price check still shows they are ~20% more expensive. I had my SV650 so long ago that now I can't recall what tires I used...
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ok, I saw "Braking With Abs..." and I was thinking, "alright, I really have to see how you brake with your abs"... then I saw "ABS"... doh
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Well, definitely need new tires after tonight. Trying out some tips from the boards, remembered stuff from past experience. Churning along, being faster than before but not super aggressive, starting to add throttle in turns, getting more lean, feeling a little slip.
Going around one right-hander, add throttle and SLIDDDDDEEEEEE to the left. Fortunately, no oncoming traffic. After pulling over and checking the tires, find the 2" "chicken strip" on both tires is near gone, the rear only has 1/2" or so left, but its flat with the sidewall; the front is all gone and the edges are looking kinda toasty. Got it back OK, but needless to say the trip back was a lot gentler!
Now I'm checking out tires- thinking Roadsmart II or Q2s in 120/60-17 and 160/60-17. Still tossing sizes vs compounds around in my head.
Sounds like tires will be a good change. All I've read indicates the Q2 will be better for drier conditions and is also more aggressive; the Roadsmart will be better for frequent wet conditions. Also, I'd consider going to a 120/70 front tire. They are cheaper by $20-$30 from what I've seen. The 120/70 might slow your turn-in just a bit, depending on what tire profile you're switching from, but I've not read any complaints about the change.
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I guess my thinking is that with limited funds, I should maximize the low-hanging fruit- get to/near the limits of the tires before upgrading, get near my unassisted street limits before coaching, etc...
If I'm truly being held back by my tires (or just need to feel a different set), I'll do it. I just don't want to be one of those guys who is equipment dependent- "needs" the latest, greatest, big-buck gear/method to "go fast", but gets smoked by a much less capable bike ridden by a half-decent rider.
In my opinion, you are combining two very different subjects. Tires and training.
Worn tires are worn tires. If you're worn down to (or beyond) the wear bars you should replace your tires. You don't have to replace them with expensive race tires (Diablo Supercorsa for example). There are many good choices near the $200 price point which will give you a good combination of performance and mileage and are suitable for street use and occasional track use. The Dunlop Sportmax Qualifier II (aka the Q2) is a decent example.
Good training can be, almost certainly will be, invaluable to your riding, so why wait? Wouldn't it be better to receive good training and then based on that training go out to refine your skills? As Carey noted, we see it posted time and again, myself included, "I wish I had taken CSS sooner!" I was one of those guys street riding for over 20 years before I finally trained with CSS and I left the first session feeling as though I was just finally learning how to ride. How much you can afford certainly is a reasonable consideration (or understandable limitation), but I think trying to figure out "street limits" on your own usually is not the best method for success.
Dylan and I had a similar discussion at NOLA in May, and I like the thoughts behind his analogy... We don't hand our [recruit] Marines a rifle, send them out to patrol a month or two, then give them basic marksmanship training, send them back out to patrol again, then give them patrolling training... Yet we seem to use this method for many of our new motorcycle riders. They buy a motorcycle, we tell them to ride for a month or two, they take the Basic MSF course, we tell them to ride for a month or two, then they take the next level MSF course... To keep it simple: it's better to train first and then apply trained skills; not to just "see how it works out" and then train sometime later.
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If I can swing it next year, I'd like to try CSS at a different track. Any recommendations?
I suggest these:
1) VIR
2) NOLA
3) Barber
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FlyingV, can you describe the vestibular system and the impact to plugging the ears. Is there potential that track riders wearing ear plugs could be causing a decrease in the ability to sense lean accurately? Sure I wouldn't ride without 'plugs but it's an interesting point you've brought up (a while ago - sorry, didnt notice it before)
Since we've resurrected this old thread I'll offer a novice answer to this year old question. The vestibular system is about sensing movement, balance, and orientation in space. The main systems components are the canals in the inner ear. Fluid moves around the canals and this gets sensed, translated, and transmitted to the brain. The vestibular system should be completely unaffected by ear plugs - unless you've jammed them into your inner ear, in which case I think you'll have other problems on your mind.
My vestibular system was badly affected when I crashed in Aug 2010 - I impacted head first. There were two components to my head injury: vestibular damage and brain damage. Again in novice terms, if the vestibular system works correctly it then transmits data through the cerebellum which then give you feelings of movement, balance, and orientation in space. My cerebellum was the area of brain damage so not only was the vestibular system not processing correctly, the cerebellum was not interpreting correctly. Basically I was in a near constant state of feeling like I was moving (falling) or that the room was spinning even when I was sitting completely still. Anyway, it took more than a year and a half and multiple rounds of therapy/rehabilitation to get my system something near to normal again.
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I have fallen due to the front, the rear and both tires and is not as bad as your mind makes you believe it is.
Your survival reaction is nothing more than an exaggerated fear to an event that is perfectly survivable.
Hmmm... It's taken me almost two years to recover from a relatively low speed crash on the track in 2010, and in fact I have a permanent injury and will never be the same. While people crash every day, and often come through with nothing but bruised ego, suggesting a crash [possibly] "is not as bad..." or "is nothing more than an exaggerated fear..." still is a bit disingenuous in my opinion. I'm not suggesting we ride around in fear of crashing but, as others have already noted, I believe this topic is far better served by discussing how you find limits without deliberately placing yourself in jeopardy with a crash.
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NOLA was interesting...fast and grippy! The coach tires got a real work out, amazingly so. Nice facility, long track in perfect condition, it was a little warm to be true, but students seemed to enjoy it quite a bit (as did we).
NOLA was totally awesome
I have a nice picture of you following me into turn 3. Actually it is almost embarrasing, because I look like I'm working, and you look bored Monday was hot, humid, and I felt it at the end of the day - heck, I felt it by lunch time. Tuesday was just a bit less hot and much less humid and for me it was a really great day to ride. I can't wait to go back
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Moving the brake point later can work (especially for racing) but it's a steep gradient, and can fire off a lot of SRs, including target locking on the turn point... and what does THAT do to your sense of speed?
When I brake too late then I do feel the SRs fire off, I wind up taking the corner slower than I intended, and I feel shaken by it all. When I brake earlier then I come off the brakes earlier, my overall speed creeps up, no SRs fire, and I feel good about it.
Cobie's recommendation to me some time ago was to move the braking RELEASE point earlier, instead of moving the brake point later. If you get OFF the brakes a little earlier each lap, that brings your entry speed up. Knowing you COULD stay on the brakes longer (if you really had to) helps avoid panic, and being off the brakes before the turn point helps focus your attention on entry speed instead of on braking. It maks a nice intermediate step between no-brakes and moving the brake point later.
I recall reading something similar in 'The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcycles'. I'll give it my own paraphrase: it's more important to finish braking so your entry speed is right for when you reach your turn point; thus it is less about the point where you start braking and more about the point where you stop braking. It took my brain a while to come to grips with this idea. A couple days later I was able to discuss this with Cobie and he agreed I was working my way down the right path
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...one thing I remember Keith suggests in Twist is to try increasing your entry speed a little at a time, by coming in at a bit higher RPM the next lap. That, at least, is something you can feel and hear, so you aren't trying to look at the speedo...
I'm pretty sure this is what Cobie and Pete and Lonnie, and every other coach I've asked, have said to do
For those of you that have taken Level 2 or higher, what skill helped YOU the most with judging entry speed?
I think "no brakes" helped me a lot at first. While I was at NOLA a couple weeks ago I felt "wide-view" had moved ahead. When I had a good wide-view + 2-step then everything felt almost slow-motion; it seemed much easier to [in small bits] increase my entry speed.
On a related note, Mike put small gold stars on my faceshield at the edge of my peripheral vision (can't remember what he called this) and I spent some time working to ensure I would see the stars (i.e. keep the wide-view open) while I was riding. That was a cool technique and I'm keeping those stars in place
Gave Myself A Birthday Present...
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Sadly I do not think I will make any of the CSS classes at VIR this summer. The consolation is the following week I get a VIR North track day and then a Marine Corps-sponsored STAR school at VIR.
I'm moving to New Orleans in September. You definitely should bring the new BMW down to NOLA, whether for CSS (in 2013) or a track day. That track is fantabulous