rchase
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Posts posted by rchase
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Speaking of compulsions and OCD. My Track Day org refers to the obsession of riding on the track as the "Track Pipe" as a play on words of "Crack Pipe" because of the addictive nature of track riding. They even give you the first hit free with a free Track Day drawing for new riders. Nice of them eh? I'm sure racing is much the same obsession except much faster with more thrills and risk thrown in there for fun.
I think the superstitions are quite fascinating myself. In some ways it's an acknowledgment of the human element of riding and respect to things we don't really understand.
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So I had my BMW S1000RR fitted with Q3's before I took delivery. Best decision in a long time. On the track with CSS my tires were set to 32F 30R and they were absolutely perfect.
My bike spends a lot of time on the street though. I'm wondering what a good pressure for street riding would be? I'm not super aggressive on the street and would love to preserve the tires a bit for track days. Any suggestions? I don't want to sacrifice a lot of grip but I would like the tires to last as long as they can.
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I believeMamola always raced with red socks and Spencer always with the same underwear, or something like that. That is superstition. Rossi does certain things to get into a specific mood and full concentration. That is a ritual. When you need to take the left hand glove on before the right and must redo if you get it wrong, that's compulsory disorder
Would you not say making a habit of riding as fast as you can regardless of the risk involved might be considered a compulsory disorder too? If the glove OCD works for them it works for me too.
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Essentially I was counter steering way to much, way too hard, way too fast. I'm a pretty strong guy (think Warren Sapp just white & 10 years older) so it's not hard for me to muscle my bike around. Plough would probably not be the technically correct term, as I think I'm turning the tire in the other direction. But it was highly aggressive while simultaneously leaning in hard. All at fairly low speed (20-40 mph range)
Bike was very unstable, but I thought at the time that was the point. Destabilize e bike to get it to change direction faster by effectively pivoting on the front tire. I understand now how that would have probably ended up high siding me at speed as the bike tried to recover from what I had just done, but at the time I knew just enough to be dangerous. Sill there, just not nearly as much ;-)
Thanks for the explanation. Inquiring minds wanted to know.
So question for you. I'm not being critical at all here just genuinely curious. When you were turning the bike like that what was the perception of the gain you got vs steering the bike less aggressively?
On the track quick steer is quite amazing. It's a skill I'm working on developing further.
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I have Michelin Supersports on my MV Agusta F4 and a set of Michelin Pilot Power 3's on one of my R6's. Both tires are great but I have yet to try the Power Cup's. Some amazing grip even on their lower end tires. I love the Dunlop Q3's as well and may end up standardizing as they seem to be a great "do anything anywhere" tire.
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I did not realize there was a huge list but it certainly makes sense. Steering is probably the simplest but most important thing you do on the bike.
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Make that 2 people who are interested.
From my observations being observed it seemed like the coach was trying to determine "how" I initiated my turn when I did the drill. Body or bars.
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I normally agree with that approach...but dirt bikes are sick fun! I have a KX-250 (2-stroke), I've only ridden few times but I pretty much giggle like a little girl when I do. You can get all kinds of older dirt bikes for not so much money---course with all those bikes, you might have to jump it in to the garage.CF
Hmmm. Sounds like I might have to make an exception. Heck as inexpensive as they are and since they don't require street registration or insurance I probably could cheat. They probably also make super fun pit bikes although the track day organizers would probably frown upon me taking a short cut flying through the air jumping Barber's multiple parking lot levels.
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Exactly.
Using the pick-up body position coming IN to the corner will help you keep the bike more upright throughout. This is a good technique when traction is an issue.
Relaxing lets the steering head adapt to all the bumps, preventing small plows in the contact patch and maximizing traction and stability. Remember, the key to being able to relax on the bars is having a good lock-on to the bike with your lower body. If you're not stable on the bike with your lower body, you have a tendency to hold yourself up on the inside bar, especially if you hang off without that good lock-on. Relaxing is also an absolute key when you get a head-shake. The stiffer you are on the bars, the more it upsets the bike. Most of us have a very difficult time relaxing in that case, but grabbing the tank with your knees as hard as you can and removing pressure from the bars is your key to recovery.
Benny
I was quite lucky to get a rain shower at Barber that wet the track down while I as practicing the quick steer. The cool thing about quick steer is you also use less lean angle which keeps you on the more stable part of the tire. I have practiced quick steer many times before but for some reason it never stuck in my mind as much as it did on a wet track. I'm going to have to work on the pick up drill a bit more.
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This is a cool topic. Something I'm taking away from it.
At the limit weight does matter. How many of us are able to ride at the limit though? Some riders are better at getting to the limits than others.
Regardless of my 214# weight my goal is to try to improve and get closer to that limit on the machine I am riding.
The Machine is also an important part of that limit equation. A bike designed to be ridden on the street has a number of compromises that make it comply with legal regulations and be able to survive longer than it's warranty period. MotoGP bikes don't have these limitations and allow the rider to get much closer to the limits of physics and even seem to defy them at times. In comparison to the bikes we ride on the streets the only similarity is the form factor. Virtually everything is a custom made prototype on the GP bike made from exotic materials.
It's nice to try and compare the raw science but there are way too many variables not taken into account. It's a really complex scenario involving man, machine and conditions. You would need a bank of supercomputers and still could not calculate the equation with any level of true precision in real time. The human element however throws all of that science straight out the window as as advanced as we are we are unable to accurately measure ourselves.
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Robert,
Throttle control is certainly one of them. Proper throttle control can help prevent slides in the first place and, as you say, rolling out in a slide is a great way to get it to hook up too quickly and throw you off. I'm thinking of a couple of others as well. How could you apply the pick-up drill to a low-traction situation? How about relax?
Benny
Benny,
Thanks for that! Throttle control was the one that came to mind immediately with the image of the lean bike in one of the twist videos falling onto it's outrigger on wet pavement. I did not immediately think of the others. Pickup of course gets you on the most stable part of the tire which is really important for maximum traction. Something I need to work on honestly. Relaxing is something I am getting better at as time goes on. Fighting the bike's natural attempts to adapt often causes lots of slides. I would love to get to the point where wildly gyrating handle bars did not scare the heck out of me.
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Yeah. I think a lot of strange rituals follow us everywhere.
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Oh that's right. The one with the exciting tire wear.
That is kind of annoying that it's turned on all the time. If you were more adventurous you could probably disable the system by wiring a switch into the fuse box at the main ABS fuse. Breaking the circuit would turn off the electronics although there could be other complications involved by doing that. You could try pulling the fuse and see what happens. Test it first thoroughly as some ABS systems assist the braking system by providing additional pressure with a pump. You may potentially reduce the amount of braking you have available if your bike has an ABS pump.
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Great video csmith12
Interestingly enough. I also have a video. In this topic I shared a video of my mechanic Opie Caylor. I'm a nice guy so I won't comment about his size but to describe him as "the little guy" would cause confusion.
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=4121#entry35733
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Very cool. I have heard of race car drivers that wear unmatched boots and gloves as well for good luck. Many of them also have the same ritual with their gloves and seatbelts.
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I have had some of the coaches that brake very hard turn the ABS off, and some turn the TC off too, but most still use it.
CF
Some of that is really dependent on the quality of the ABS or TC, the #1 complaint I have about my newest bike is the ABS and Linked Braking system being a always on kinda thing, its not a Race ABS system or anything and it cuts in to easy for my liking, I'd much prefer normal traditional beefy calipers to the ABS and linked system, although I've not yet had to use it in the wet, where it might be a very useful thing
What kind of bike is your new one?
The interesting thing about the S1000RR is that with the addition of some HP parts and their race calibration kit you can adjust pretty much anything you want in the TC and ABS systems down to a downright anal level of granularity. Want TC to leave you alone in 3rd gear at 5000 rpm at X degrees of lean angle? Your wish is the software's command.
Even though the stock bike has the street in mind it's very easy to adapt it to almost any environment. Pretty amazing really. Off hand I can't think of any other manufacturer that offers that without having to resort to the aftermarket.
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A buddy of mine is big into dirtbikes and that's his suggestion as well. I'm probably going to use a bit of restraint and sanity this time and go for a class before I run out and buy another bike even though it's SUPER tempting. With 7 bikes an 8th might be a bit much. I'm still recovering from my insurance agent punching me in the face and running off with my wallet when I called to insure my S1000RR.
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Wikipedia defines a Superstition as "Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc., that contradicts natural science."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
I know Rossi talks to his bike before his race a practice I personally share and find useful riding an Italian made motorcycle. What other superstitions are out there in the world of yellow plates? With luck being such a huge factor in racing I can certainly see why people do this.
Am I the only person out there thanking my bike for not pitching me off when I do something bone headed? Do you have any unique and interesting ones to share?
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Now that little monster looks like a lot of fun.
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Ah, I see that now. Makes sense. I don't remember the American Le Mans cars wiggling through all those turns like that.
Watching races on TV, for me the signature corner on that track is the right onto the front straight after the long downhill under the bridge. Awesome. On-board video never really does justice to the elevation changes - that is a steep hill.
Oh yea. Someone was having fun when they designed that part of the track. You come off the 180mph straight into the two sharp turns and then under the bridge and down that big hill. Talk about a setup to suck you in.
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Rchase,it sounds like you had a good salesperson helping you. That's awesome. I hope that when you have a chance to try ours on, you'll be able to work with someone of equal quality. The proof would be if they are honest enough to tell you "this may not be the one".
Keep in mind the fact that the school helmets have been worn and broken in a bit. A new helmet will feel very different, so if you do make a purchase, and it's tight at first, remember your demo ride to know what it will grow into.
Thanks for the tip on the school helmets. I would have never thought of that but it makes complete sense.
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Thanks Cobie. I'm checking out some local schools here. Might even pick up a dirt bike as well and see what trouble I can get myself into.
With the potential of falling off a bit higher I certainly would take advantage of all the protective gear I could get my hands on. I do appreciate you looking out for me though!
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He's one heck of a rider for sure.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. Road Atlanta is about an hour away and I have yet to ride there. I'm pretty familiar with the track layout but I have yet to ride a bike there. Up the hill out of the paddock there's two options for the esses. One adds more turns for bikes and one's a wider faster turn for cars. They were running on the extra esses on the left side if you look towards the right as Opie is carving through the first set.
The straight is amazing. On the brakes at 180+mph is certainly a workout for your brake pads.
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It's funny you mention dirt bikes. A friend of mine has been trying to get me to do a dirt bike school for a while now. I hate getting dirty but if it will help me learn a bit more about the dynamics of a slightly sideways motorcycle bring on the mud and crud.
Benny. I have actually never ridden the slide bike. I need to make a point of that the next year. This year I was so distracted by the massive progress I was making out on the track I forgot to do any of the off track stuff. As for the technique. I think you are talking about throttle control. Rolling out in a slide can cause some really massive issues and makes it much worse.
I have thought a couple of times about finding some lower grip tires and then doing a track day. The problem of course with that is at speed if things don't go according to plan it could cause some issues to myself and perhaps other riders. Not really an optimal way to do that. The slide bike and some dirt bikes are much better ideas. I'm not a complete stranger to losing grip but I would like for it not to be an "oh no" moment.
Racing Superstitions
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Eirik,
Certainly true.