Kevin Kane
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Posts posted by Kevin Kane
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Wayneman,
Please let us know your thoughts on Level's I & II after you go. Blue 636 and JeF4ry are other riders who had a lot of inquiries before attending and their post school posts were fun to read.
Kevin
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Waynerman,
By all means go. You will learn a great deal about cornering that WILL translate to the street. My reason for responding to Scooby's post with my story was to suggest that the street is NOT the place to practice TRACK drills. There is and always be a big difference between these two environments.
The Superbike School is all about CORNERING. I have seen riders of all ages (older than 65) and all kinds of bikes (including a bone stock 883 Sportster) and everybody learns how to improve their cornering skills in a controlled, safe environment. You will be given concise, focused instruction and on track coaching that will allow you to practice what they teach. My mistake was caused by me pushing beyond my TRACK riding abilities on a TRACK. Even thought I still street ride, I do so with less aggression than I did after gravitating to track days.
Keep your registration, you will be a better rider for attending Level's I & II.
Kevin Kane
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Scooby,
You question poses an intersting dilemma as track time is usually not readily available and you need track time to hone your track skills. As a rider with very limited track talent, I share your frustration. Where we differ is that I no longer believe that you can "practice" this stuff on the street - at least without taking considerably greater risk. This season, I was all but resigned to finding more track time because the track environment is just so different from the street that for me, street riding just didn't seem to translate to the track.
Earlier this month I was at a private track day at the Nelson Circuit in Shannonville, Ontario (CAN) where I low sided in a turn carrying some pretty good entry speed. I was amazed at how far I slid across the track and then the asphalt infield access road before exiting onto the grass. Once I hit the grass, I was even more amazed at how fast and how much out of control I was as I started tumbling. Never once in this journey could I control where I was going or how fast I was getting there.
I was on a track that was in excellent shape with lots of run off room, no unpadded armco anywhere and professional emergency medial help on site; everything you could need in an emergency. I am fine (maybe a little sore) but if that low side had occurred on a street, I would have slid across on coming traffic and then assuming I avoided getting hit by a vehicle, my tumbling could have been into a stand of trees, guard rails, bridge railing, utility poles you name your poison. Oh and yes, I was practicing a drill when this happened with complete concentration on it because I wasn't thinking about on coming traffic, cops, broken pavement, unleashed dogs or gravel on the road.
...but that's just me.
Kevin Kane
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Jeff,
You wrote: "I was only saying that I was having trouble learning new tracks" is the key.
The first time on a new track is always difficult but the School assists a rider in this orientation better than anybody. If you haven't tried it yet, wait until you attend a club track day, especially on a track you have never ridden before. You will appreciate the School's approach in ways you can't imagine right now.
Kevin Kane
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Jeff;
It becomes easier if you use the X's to get turn in points established but with more repetitions, begin to ween yourself from their X's to your own reference points as the day progresses.
As for not using the brakes, that's only the first two sessions of the day as "light brakes" is usually permitted in Session 3. Brake use (and gears) is progressive with susequent sessions so you end the day with full brakes and all gears.
The brake (and gear) restriction in the morning is intended to free up your attention so you can focus on turn entry speed and your specific level drills. In my experience, if you go with the flow of the program, these restrictions are a help, not a hinderance.
Kevin Kane
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Went to Mosport (east of Toronto) two weeks ago...WOW!
First time on a six gear WFO track...WOW!
Last weekend, Canadian Superbike riders Steve Crevier and Jeff Williams both got off when their rear tires let go in sixth gear at 170...WOW!
Kevin Kane
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In Level III, Keith will show you how this is done but on a static bike in the paddock. That way, he can explain the position and then critique each Level III rider's body position, leg and arm position and movement back and forth across the tank. You not only try it yourself but you get to see what it looks like when your fellow students try it; In a controlled setting like this, you can better understand the technique without the distraction of doing it at speed.
Then when you go back out on the track and integrate this with your other cornering skills, it will all start to become much clearer to you. Once comfortable with it, you will be amazed and how much easier it is to turn the bike.
Kevin Kane
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Vaughn,
What do you mean "they (H-2's) are OK?" What do you expect a tire to do for you that these H-2's are not providing? BTW, do you know that Michelin also offers the same race tire in a medium and soft compound?
Kevin Kane
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In this month's Road Racing World, (July), on page 138 is a nice shot of Stony Landers winning the Formula One race (and a bunch of other races at Willow Springs) and then on page 43 is a full page ad for the Willow Springs Motorcycle Club.
Does anyone know who is in that picture? Looks like at least one School instructor at a minimum.
Just curious...
Kevin Kane
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I am not an "experienced rider" but I have ridden the no B.S. bike more than once. I can say without hesitation that once you change your hands from the bar that moves to the one that doesn't, you're finished turning...It's that simple.
Kevin Kane
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Blue,
When I took level I at Watkins Glen (NY), that track is also about a 2 hour drive from my home. I loaded the van the afternoon before and left at 4:30 AM just like like your plan. By lunchtime, I was trying to take a nap and contimued to look for rest spots between sessions all afternoon. By the end of the day, I was making some big time fatigue mistakes out there and eventually DNF'd myself after trading paint with another rider exiting the Bus Stop. That was the last time I drove to the track the morning of an event.
Your first School day will be tiring all by itself. If you can manage it, I would strongly recommend that you get a room nearby the night before so you can arrive at the track rested. When I went to the Streets in April, I stayed at a Motel in Mojave but there are places in Lancaster and in Rosamond. Anyway, I had a 10 minute drive in the morning, not 2 hours. Big difference!
Kevin Kane
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Blue,
You ask: "Will we be allowed to experiment with body positioning at all in Level 1?"
The simple answer is yes...and no.
I don't think that your instructor will pull you over to comment on your body position (unless you are doing something really unsafe) but they will want to know how you are doing with your Level I drills. It has been my experience that the School really knows how to teach cornering; if you allow them to take you through the progression of drills that they have perfected over many years and many thousands of other students, you will be amazed with how much your riding (read cornering) will improve.
The drills build upon each other so jumping ahead to body position before you have the foundation concepts will only confuse you. But can you experiment? My guess is yes but don't be disappointed if you don't get feedback on your body position experiments. Frankly, you may have to unlearn them once you advance to the upper levels but that is just my personal opinion.
Good luck!
Kevin Kane
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Having just finished the School at Watkins Glen, I have a question about throttle control AFTER the turn.
We worked a lot on throttle control in cornering, especailly after turning in; the main emphasis was to continue rolling on and to avoid "stalling" on the gas. My question is what kind of throttle control do you use after you get the bike upright, especially with a long straight in front of you like there are (3 of) at the Glen?
I found that my right hand was going numb from twisting the throttle as quickly as I could and that technique worked against the idea of "staying loose on the bars". What was I doing wrong here?
Thanks,
Kevin Kane
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If you are riding a water cooled bike, replace your anti-freeze with Water Wetter or plain water. Flush the system to get all of the glycol out before you replace it.
Kevin Kane
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You can find Pocono's layout on the School's web site but look for the East Course on the track map as all of the different classes I've attended with CSS at Pocono have been on the East Course. I've been to Pocono East about a half a dozen times and anytime I saw cars, they were almost always on the North Course so If you have driven the track in a Corvette, it was probably the North Course.
Pocono East is flat with tons of run off room but the trade off is reference points are harder to find. It doesn't matter however because the School addresses reference points very effectively - but only after Session 1 has ended.
The East Course is 1.7 miles long with 11 turns running through the infield but does incorporates a portion of the tri-oval's straight section. That section is the only place where you can stretch your legs.
A modification that the school made last fall (but not last spring) was to add a chicane at the end of the straight I mentioned above. It adds another turn to the mix but also keeps the WFO crowd inside the school yard so to speak.
The pavement is not as smooth as Watkins Glen but the only noticable bumps are at the braking sections of the Bus Stop, a 180 degree right hand turn located right in the middle of the layout. Otherwise, it's a tight, fun track that will hold your attention and give you plenty of opportunities to work on your cornering skills.
Hope this helps.
Kevin
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The CSS events I've attended at Watkins Glen and Pocono usually had women riders...all of them fit in all of them could ride. CSS women instructors are also no different; they know how to ride and they know how to instruct.
I think JohnnyRobshaw is right..."You will have the broadest smile at the end of day 1- no bull"
Kevin
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Since my question isn't about riding, I will ask anyone who can respond to do so off line.
I recently attended a CSS event at the Streets of Willow Springs and rented a one piece suit for the first time. These were the School's new perforated AGV suits and despite the mid 90's temperature, it was very comfortable to ride in. Unfortunately, over the winter I bought a non perforated Dainese suit and I made a BIG mistake. I need to decide to try and resell it and buy a perforated suit or have the suit I did buy modified? Are their vendors who do this type of work and do any of you have any experience with them?
Thanks,
Kevin
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Blue,
I'll give you my perspective on your questions:
1.) Bike - Mine v. Theirs: Since you own the same model as the School's, it really is a toss up. The tie breaker here is tires. Unless you have tires as good as the Dunlop 208's on the School Zx6R's, the school bike would be my choice.
2.) Limits - I have seen Level I riders blow away Level IV riders and vice versa. You will be coached to ride within your limits yet brought along in a controlled manner. Don't be preoccupied with speed (or knee dragging), focus on their training and the rest will fall into place.
3.) Goals - This one is tougher because until you are in School, you have no reference point to establish goals. YRMV but I was surprised (and hooked) by my Level I experience. I don?t recall what my Level I goal was in 2001 but what I can tell you was that I left Watkins Glen that day absolutely stoked.
4.) Leathers: If you plan on staying with this sport, you will need to invest in your own leathers. Since good suits aren't cheap, consider renting the School's leathers for your Level I course so you can see what track riding is all about. If you take to it like most everyone else has on this list, then take the plunge.
I hope this helps and good luck in June.
Kevin Kane
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Trevor,
My simple advice is to get another copy and then pick up the other two. IMHO, if you really want to become a better rider, at a minimum you need to have these books to refer to as you place more attention on technique and mental attitude necessary to improve.
I have read, re-read and re-read all three books and each time I do, there is always something that I missed or something that was a particular barrier for me at the time that I find the answer to in these books. These are reference books - I would bet that you don't lend out your repair manual for very long, why would you do that with your riding manuals?
Kevin
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Rifleman;
If I can offer a couple of thoughts on your posts, you write:
1.) "I realized that almost all the 'pulling' I was talking about was the exit where I wanted the bike to stand up as throttle was added, I was pulling on both bars, not as steering inputs but to put myself back in the saddle".
Metal on Metal offered you half the answer when he wrote: "I've gone so far as to (briefly) lift my hands from both grips (at the same time) whilst leaned over and sure enough there was basically no difference in the behaviour of the bike. I then set my hands back down so lightly on the grips that I could barely feel them in contact with the bars and it felt just as stable and secure. What he didn't tell you is how did he stay on the bike? - it was with his legs! In Level 3, you will see how much you need to use your legs durning cornering so you can stay "loose" on the bars. This is a very important part of the syllabus.
2.) "I know the proper 'look through' the turn technique, the problem is that as I approach the turn I focus on the point just behind the cornering marker on my line. That is the do or die point."
My sense of the drill was to look UP the track so the wide view will reduce the SR associated with speed, mainly because you will see more accurately how fast you are actually going in relationship to how much room you have to manage that speed. Since target fixing takes almost all of your attention, you can't see how much you have cheated yourself out of corner speed until you are past the "do or die point". Once into your turn - then and only then do you see how much quicker you could have gone throught there.
3.) You can't get there from here. What I mean is by that is that it is very hard to teach youself these techniques no matter how much you try. The best testimony that can be found here is from Balistic, winner of 11 of the 14 races he has entered so far this season. He writes: "I am the product of the master not the master myself. The real joy of my racing is showing the benefits of my training to others who want to know how high they could go. Ask Keith, and do what asks."
Good luck.
Kevin
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I've been to almost a dozen California Superbike Schools and the track usually goes hot at 9:00 AM. The posted time for the School isn't a safety net, it gives you enought time to register, get your bike through tech inspection and then to attend the riders' meeting.
Kevin Kane
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Princessbre,
There have been numerious posts here essentially asking the same question. You can peruse the list to find them but you will see that almost without exception, the convential wisdom has been to go to school.
As a new student rider, you will avoid going through the process of having to unlearn the incorrect techniques that many of us self taught riders had to go through.
Good luck.
Kevin Kane
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John,
I have a set of Sharkskinz and Beasley bodies; IMHO, the Sharkskinz' are lighter and more flexible. I included the belly pan when I bought my 'skinz so I wouldn't have to go back and order one later if I ever got to the point where I actually race my bike (and no, I have not gotten there).
If you are sure that your Suzuki is really going to be a track bike only, I would suggest that you remove the lights, mirrors, turn signals and rear license plate assembly and kick stand (you'll need a rear wheel stand if you go this route) and put them away so you can restore it to a street bike in the future. You will be required to tape them up at School or a track day anyway so you might as well get them out of the way now. You will also need to remove the anti-freeze (once warmer weather is here) and replace it with Water Wetter.
My experience with the School and Team Pro-Motion (an east coast track club) is that safety wiring is not required so even thought I do safety wire my bike, it is by choice. Another choice I made that really added value was mounting new race compound tires on my track bike. The improvement in grip was immediately and that translated into greater confidence in cornering.
But in closing John, I cannot overstate the value in training. None of the changes you are contemplating will pay you any dividend unless you know how to utilize them. School will cost you less than a set of Sharkskinz will and the Sharkskinz will NOT make you a better rider.
Good Luck.
Kevin
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John,
You wrote "I want to use this bike only for track days and learning to ride the darn thing in a controlled environment. Can anyone offer advice on getting this bike ready..."
My advice is the best way to prepare the bike is to prepair the rider. Get some formal training. It is fair to say that many riders are (or least used to be) self taught and IMHO, self taught poorly. In my case, the transition to a sports bike from a street bike was going very badly until I went to School (CSS/Watkins Glen). Once at School, I saw riders on 600's blowing away riders on liter bikes all day long demonstrating to me that it is almost all the rider and not the ride.
You can invest in Sharkskinz (plastic), sintered brake pads and racing compound tires but none of it will mean much if you can't take advanage of what they offer. Also, track days are not as a "controlled environment" as School is and the on track instruction that is critical to improvement will not even be close to what School offers.
Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.
Kevin Kane
I Can't Ride Like I Did At The School!
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Mac,
The track to street translation was a hard adjustment for me as well but a big part of the struggle is the difference in the two environments.
On the track, you literally ride your a** off the bike and on the street more factors come into play. The track is a relatively controlled environment where you focus on specific things (or drills) and are not distracted by much more than your own confidence in your riding ability. As the day progresses, each turn becomes more familiar and as you described, you can get to the place where you are making only minor adjustments to achieve your goals and it all seems to come together. Then you go home to ride...
On the street there is so-o-o-o much more to deal with; cops, cars, critters, cracked pavement, oil, gravel and other associated distractions that for me, all of these delayed integrating these cornering skills into my street riding. With more time in the saddle and concentration on the training, what you learned in Level I will become part of your riding style.
BTW, Level I is really only the foyer into the house of cornering...stay in school and learn how to use all of the tools, you will be amazed at the progress you will make.
Kevin