Kevin Kane
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Posts
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Posts posted by Kevin Kane
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John,
You wrote "I want to use this bike only for track days and learning to ride the darn thing in a controlled environment. Can anyone offer advice on getting this bike ready..."
My advice is the best way to prepare the bike is to prepair the rider. Get some formal training. It is fair to say that many riders are (or least used to be) self taught and IMHO, self taught poorly. In my case, the transition to a sports bike from a street bike was going very badly until I went to School (CSS/Watkins Glen). Once at School, I saw riders on 600's blowing away riders on liter bikes all day long demonstrating to me that it is almost all the rider and not the ride.
You can invest in Sharkskinz (plastic), sintered brake pads and racing compound tires but none of it will mean much if you can't take advanage of what they offer. Also, track days are not as a "controlled environment" as School is and the on track instruction that is critical to improvement will not even be close to what School offers.
Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.
Kevin Kane
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Fred,
I have been to Pocono a half dozen times in the past two seasons and had to deal with rain only once. When the School goes to Pocono, it typically sets up on the East Course which is 1.7 miles long and has (I think) 11 turns, eight of which are lefts. The good news is that there is plenty of run off space with almost no obstructions to worry about - but that also means that there are fewer reference points to work with until they set the turn in points.
When I was at Pocono with the School last May, Keith ran the East Course unchanged. When I returned there in August, Keith added a chicane at the end of the long straight (the only portion of the NASCAR Tri-Oval included in the East Course set up). IMHO, this modification was a real plus as it added one more cornering opportunity and by where it was placed, it required more entry speed discipline of those riders who liked to run down this straight WFO.
The infield portions of the track are not as smooth as Watkins Glen but it is managable. Regardless, the layout is such that you will be very active every portion of every lap. Also, with a shorter course like this, you will run more laps than at a Watkins Glen (2.45 mi.) so you will learn the layout sooner allowing you to focus more on cornering and less on "where am I?" while you're out there. It is a tight, flat, technical course that will challange you without intimidating you. It's really a fun place to ride.
Anyway, that's one rider's perspective.
Kevin Kane
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Question for Cobie or Keith,
Durning an eye exam, I was checked for left or right eye dominance and it reminded me that as a youth baseball coach, we used to check the eye dominance of players, especially ones who were having a hard time hitting a baseball. Durning my exam, I immediatley thought of cornering and wondered if one eye dominance has any impact on why many riders favor turning right v. left?
Kevin Kane
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Rifleman,
I hadn't looked at this thread for awhile but your last post about tires does have a connection to dragging a knee IMHO. I found that once I went to a race compound tire and began to "feel" the difference in traction, my confidence in them holding grew alot. With that, I began to carry more corner speed, more lean angle and dragging a knee was a natural progresion of that process.
My 2 cents worth
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Rob,
I use H2's front and rear and feel very planted with them. In the northeast, Pocono has some a very rough surface while Watkins Glen is pretty smooth.
Kevin Kane
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Sentinal,
Read and then re-read TOTW 1 & 2.
Kevin Kane
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Balistic,
You write: "enter a corner at a speed I can maintain throughout the turn. I don't try to accelerate just get the gas on and not let the bike slow". Would that be true for a long sweeper like the Carousel @ Watkins Glen?
Kevin
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Six,
What my post was looking for was a conceptual understanding of why my track bike was handling so much more harshly than my street bike, even thought they are both very similar. Your answer (along with feedback from the shop that prepped the bike for the DPO) confirmed that I could benefit from making some suspension changes.
The previous owner had heavier fork springs installed and set the sag for his weight (35+ lbs heavier). Even after trying to adjust for the weight difference, the forks were still too stiff and the rougher ride took way too much of my attention under heavy braking at turn in.
I have just swapped out the stiffer springs for the OEM ones and I am planning on going back to stock settings and then start to dail it in to suit my own riding style. If you can offer some guidance on where to go from here with set up numbers, that would be great. The bike is a Ducati 748SPS with revalved Brembo Nitride coated forks and an Ohlin rear shock (also with a heaver spring which I may also swap out for the OEM).
Thanks,
Kevin Kane
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I don't mean to ask an open ended question but can anyone comment on what kind of changes that a rider ca expect on the track by switching to stiffer fork springs?
Kevin kane
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Bones,
Thanks for the detail...Stu, love the suggestion but based on her enthusiasm for my riding, that ain't ever going to happen.
Kevin Kane
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Steve,
Can you post (or e-mail me off list) HOW you made this modified lap timer? I undersatnd the concept but the interface between the switch and the watch is where I am puzzled.
Thanks,
Kevin Kane
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Guys,
The "extra turn " also means extra cornering and cornering is at the core of the curriculum of the School. I recommend that you embrace it as an additional practice opportunity.
As an afterthought, when I attended CSS/Pocono last May, the left hander at the end of the long back straight was unchanged...when the school returned in August they added a right turn just before making it a flick-flick corner combo. Along with adding a turn, it also added a "calming" effect because riders had to get much more precise on entry speed at this turn so they were less inclined to run WFO all the way down the straight.
Having ridden at Pocono a few times with a track club, this turn gets very frenetic with some nasty consequences so this change was a GOOD thing from my perspective. BTW, I was able to lower my May lap time by 3 seconds even with the extra turn so it did not hold me back at all. These guys know what they are doing.
Kevin Kane
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Rootsman is right on point...do Level I & Level II back to back.
Kevin Kane
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As others have suggested, don't worry about the knee; if you continue to make progress, it WILL happen. I found that focusing on the specific cornering tools that Keith and the School teach, it became a bi-product of cornering and not a goal unto itself.
Kevin Kane
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This is great!...haven't been to school yet and your already hooked. It isn't hard to have that happen.
The short answer is One level - One day. As an attendee of numerous schools, I would recommend (if you can manage it) that you sign up for schools on two consecutive days. It gives you the best opportunity to absorb and build on the progression of tools you will be given plus you will be more acclimated the second day...especially with the track.
Kevin Kane
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Hey 15CR,
I have an H series 190 on my track bike and an H series 180 on my street bike. Don't know much about bling bling but I will say I am replacing the 180 with a 190 this spring. The 190 feels more planted on the track than the 180 does on the street.
Kevin Kane
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In my younger riding years, I remember thinking that I could actually change lanes by throwing my hips to the side I wanted to move to and that my bike responded. I truely believed that you could turn the bike by body position alone.
I also remember when I got on the No BS bike at CSS/Watkins Glen, I just KNEW I could turn it with body position. I won't spoil it for anyone who is planning on trying the No BS bike this season but it is a very convincing training tool for the uninitiated.
Kevin Kane
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This has been an intriguing thread for me as I am fascinated by guys struggling with the question of WHY they race or SHOULD they continue to race while I am confronting the question of CAN I race?
As an older rider who is new to the track, can I ask the racers on this list how far they have to go to race, and how ofter they race and how do they "practice" when they can't get to the track?
Thanks,
Kevin Kane
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Stu & Will,
My first experience with sliding/ front end chatter was on the School's Brake Bike at Watkins Glen. After totally blowing it by dropping my legs off the pegs as I struggled to find terra firma, Keith calmly explained what was happening and how I might try this manuever differently. His advice was very helpful.
The following spring on a School Zx-6R, I experienced this sensation for the first time on the track at Pocono. What is refreshing to hear you guys say is that this experience is more from holding on too tight and is NOT a method to faster lap times. BTW, my lap times went up even thought I thought I was going faster so the FACTS in my case support your theory.
Great feedback guys...thanks,
Kevin Kane
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Ballistic,
I apprecite your comment on bracing yourself with the bars during braking; and you're correct about why my bike is so unsettled at turn (SR's taking over) but watching that video, I am still curious. Does a rider like Bostrom choose to "dance" his way into a turn as a cornering technique or is he managing a bi-product of his cornering technique? Put another way, can a rider make this turn at that speed without sliding at some point? I have read (or heard) that some Pro riders choose to slide so they can "feel" their traction limits but I am always amazed watching these guys do it so often.
At different frames in that video, both the front and rear end of his bike seems to be moving laterally but listening to the sound of his bike, he never chops the throttle, he rolls off slightly and just at (or past) the apex, he rolls it back on and once upright, he hammers it.
Kevin Kane
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Watching the video of Ben Bostrom at turn 11 @ Laguna (over in the racing forum), it looks like his bike is "loose" as he sets up for this turn. Maybe it is his personal style or maybe it is how he rides Hondas v. Ducati's but the more you (I) saw him (on TV) last season, the more it seemed lime he slides his way into the turns. Can anyone comment on this?
I had posted a question to Cobie and Keith last fall that both answered but this image rekindled similar questions...is it all about controlling the slide at the higher(est) levels of this sport?
Kevin Kane
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Guys,
For any of you who have expressed concern about obtaining "value" by attending the School, re-read Keith's post here and then go the new section labeled "Web Related" and watch the Barber video. Nice ride, Will.
Kevin Kane
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Ballistic,
You wrote: "I pulled the front up as I passed him and set it down to flick it into a left and was gone." ...kinda like that Barber on bike video?
The Barber ride has some "rhythm" don't you think? "...going as fast as (you) thought was prudent"? I wonder if Keith can tell us what School Level that ride was in?
Kevin Kane
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I'm with all of you on this thread. One you have acclimated to the track without concern for cops, critters, cages and crappy roads, it's hard to feel "safe" on the street again.
Kevin Kane
Novice Racing
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
John,
I have a set of Sharkskinz and Beasley bodies; IMHO, the Sharkskinz' are lighter and more flexible. I included the belly pan when I bought my 'skinz so I wouldn't have to go back and order one later if I ever got to the point where I actually race my bike (and no, I have not gotten there).
If you are sure that your Suzuki is really going to be a track bike only, I would suggest that you remove the lights, mirrors, turn signals and rear license plate assembly and kick stand (you'll need a rear wheel stand if you go this route) and put them away so you can restore it to a street bike in the future. You will be required to tape them up at School or a track day anyway so you might as well get them out of the way now. You will also need to remove the anti-freeze (once warmer weather is here) and replace it with Water Wetter.
My experience with the School and Team Pro-Motion (an east coast track club) is that safety wiring is not required so even thought I do safety wire my bike, it is by choice. Another choice I made that really added value was mounting new race compound tires on my track bike. The improvement in grip was immediately and that translated into greater confidence in cornering.
But in closing John, I cannot overstate the value in training. None of the changes you are contemplating will pay you any dividend unless you know how to utilize them. School will cost you less than a set of Sharkskinz will and the Sharkskinz will NOT make you a better rider.
Good Luck.
Kevin