Timmer
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Posts posted by Timmer
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I have a PC3USB on my roadbike (R1 2003). I used to have an Akropovic Ti slip-on, but I grew old,boring and found the extra noise irritating so I've taken it off again. I downloaded a 'standard' map from the website, and installed it myself. Work very well, no noticeable flats or anything. But I had the workshop (Lydmuren MC) I use give it a spin on the bench. The owner (who's quite good at tuning in PC's, although not an official dynojetter) adjusted the jetting below 40% throttle (IIRC he added a bit of fuel) - above the 40%, the jetting was spot on. When riding the bike afterwards, I noticed that the feeling of the throttle crack-on was even better than before
My only downside with the PC3 is the fact that it will drain the battery in less than 2 weeks, so either I have to ride the bike at least once a week, or I have to put a maintenance charger on the battery. My guess is that there's something wrong with the particular PC3USB, since I've never heard of other PC3USBs doing the same.
On my R6 2008 racebike, I replaced the PC3USB (sorry Timmer) with the official YEC kitbox and wiring loom. The YEC kitbox's matrix for adjusting the fuel is more coarse in the RPM scale than a PC3, so some people stack the kitbox AND the PC3. However, the YEC kitbox gives you 2 fuel maps, advance/retard ignition, cutting ignition for quick shifting, and a host of other stuff I've forgotten. It seriously reprograms the display (e.g. you get temp instead of speed), and one thing that annoys me is that it no longer turns on the neutral lamp. There's a switch on the left handlebar for selecting maps on-the-run, which is really nice for testing out map changes. For example, the bike felt a little jerky getting on the gas (too lean), so I gave it a bit more fuel in the bottom in map 2, checked it out in the next session, and copied the setting into map 1 once I was happy with the change.
I've added a Cordona strain-gauge GP quickshifter which turned out to be 100% plug-and-play (it plugs into the YEC harness and signals the kitbox). Biggest problem was that it took me some time to stop blipping the throttle when I wanted to change gears
Kai
Hey Kai,
Glad to hear the Power Commander made your roadbike run well. No worries on running the YEC stuff...I realize that there are other products out there.
I have also heard about guys running the YEC stuff with a Power Commander. Some of the AMA racers do that. They like using the PC5 and Autotune, but also want some of the features that the YEC stuff has.
Just curious....Now that you've run the YEC stuff for a while...how do you like it? What features do you like most?
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Pinging, Knocking, and detonation are all words that describe the same phenomenon. I'll just use the term detonation for this post.
If the fuel/air mixture is pressurized and/or heated too much, it will explode like a bomb when it is ignited(hence the term detonate). The "ping" noise you hear when this happens is actually a little sonic boom going on inside the combustion chamber. The shockwave from this little sonic boom is obviously not very friendly to the internals of the motor. It also produces much higher combustion temperatures, which is also not good for motor parts.
Detonation is a result of too much PRESSURE and/or HEAT of the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber.
Below is a quick list of the specific things that can cause detonation(from most common to least common):
Fuel octane rating too low
The octane rating of fuel is directly related to it's resistance to detonation. The higher the octane, the more resistant it is to detonation. This is why race fuels are usually up toward the 110 octane range. Leaded fuels are also more resistant to detonation. Lead is a fuel additive that is specifically put into fuel to make it more knock resistant. It is not commonly used anymore because of the emissions it produces.
Too much ignition timing advance
You want some ignition timing advance to give the fuel/mixture enough time to fully ignite, but if the piston is compressing the fuel/air too much while it is being ignited it will be more prone to detonate. In modern bikes/cars there is a table in the ECU that defines how much ignition timing to run for different operating conditions.
Intake air temperature too high(turbocharger/supercharger)
Turbochargers and superchargers cause higher intake air temperatures because they transfer more heat to the air coming into the motor before it gets to the combustion chamber. More heat = detonation. This is why guys install an intercooler with their turbocharger. The intercooler cools the air before it enters the motor.
Too much mechanical compression
If you modify your motor to raise the compression ratio you are compressing the fuel/air mixture more. More pressure = detonation.
Fuel/Air Mixture excessively lean
Leaner fuel/air mixtures produce higher combustion chamber temperatures. More heat = detonation.
So, if you are hearing a little pinging in your motor it is probably due to one or a combination of these things.
Any questions on this stuff?
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warregl...glad to hear the Power Commander cleaned up the lean spot on your K1200R. Have you ridden one of the new S1000RR's? Those things are impressive. BMW really raised the bar with that bike, especially with the electronics. It really lit a fire under the Japanese manufacturers butt to get more sophisticated electronics on their bikes.
Indeed I have. I've used the school's S1000RRs for all my classes and I have considered trading the KR on one. Sadly the current market is not condusive to selling an esoteric naked German motorcycle unless you are willing to take a serious arse kicking and I just can't justify having two of them...yet. Another couple of track days on one and I might change my mind.
BTW...Are the Autotune, SFM, and LCD exclusive to the PC5 or will they work with other models?
Haha...sounds like a few more days on one of the school's bikes, and you might have a tough decision to make!
As far as the Autotune and SFM go...yes, they are designed to work with the PC5 only(not PCIIIUSB). We offer the Autotune for any bike that we make a PC5 for. We only offer the SFM's for bikes that have 8 injectors. We offer the LCD for both the PCIIIUSB and PC5.
I did some digging and we have a Power Commander 5 that will work for your bike if you're interested in upgrading. The Power Commander 5 part number is 12-004(2009-12 BMW K1300R). It's not listed in our catalog for your bike, but it should work. We changed over to using Power Commander 5's in 2009, which is why we don't have one specified for your bike in the catalog.
Hope that answers your questions. Please let me know if you have any others.
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Hey Jason,
When we make our maps we are pretty conservative with leaning the bikes out. We usually error on the rich side. However, there are some bikes that run ridiculously rich from the factory and we have to subtract quite a bit of fuel to get them to run properly. Most of the time this is in the low to mid range areas. For example, I had a 2006 ZX10r and it was running really rich in the mid range(about 11.8:1) even after I put on a full race exhaust that was flowing a lot more air. There were some areas of my map where I was taking out as much as 25% fuel!
If the bike is truly running too lean you will probably notice some unfavorable running conditions of the bike before it does any real damage. The bike will usually run rough or have a "flat spot", you will see higher engine temperatures, and you might even catch it pinging(knocking). If you notice any of these things, I would suggest you take it to a tuning center immediately. You can also buy products that you can use to monitor the air/fuel ratio while you ride(if you would like).
Tell you what...I will post a new thread and go over some things about air/fuel ratio. I think that might help shed a little more light on some of this stuff.
In the mean time...if you are concerned at all about your bike running lean, take it to a tuning center. The money they will charge you is well worth the piece of mind in my opinion.
Hope that helps.
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Hey Ozzy,
I did some digging and apparently my previous post about the ECUnleashed was a bit incorrect. The ECUnleased guys are not messing with changing fuel. It sounds like they change ignition timing a bit and fly-by-wire settings a bit. There is probably a little horsepower to be had there, but fuel control is usually where you see the biggest horsepower gains. It also costs about the same as a Power Commander(around $400).
In fact, one of our racer's got the ECUnleashed stuff, but still had to run the Power Commander to get the fuel control he needed.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
By the way...have you seen the new Tuning section on the forum?
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Good question Matt.
It depends on what you are looking to do.
To my knowledge the BMW Race ECU allows you to adjust fueling, ignition timing, traction control settings, shifter settings, and has a pit lane speed limiter. It also lets you read trouble codes. Not sure how much the BMW ECU costs, but they are usually pretty expensive.
The PC5 will adjust the fueling. I would be willing to bet it is much cheaper than the race ECU. If you add the SFM you get full fuel control and can also add our quickshifter which is adjustable...the stock quickshifter on the S1000RR works pretty good though. One thing I forgot to mention...we are also planning on developing an Ignition Module for the S1000RR, which gets you ignition timing control, a pitlane speed limiter, and also launch control.
If you just want to put an exhaust on and get it to run right, I would go with a Power Commander. You probably don't need the SFM unless you're doing something like putting a turbocharger on and need A LOT of fuel or don't have the stock quickshifter and want to add ours on. You can always add the Ignition Module later if you want to screw around with ignition timing, the pitlane limiter, or launch control.
If you are interested in messing around with EVERYTHING and don't mind spending the cash, go with the Race ECU.
Hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
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We make a number of things for the S1000RR. This list includes a Power Commander 5, SFM, Autotune, and LCD. We also make a quickshifter, but I think most guys get the package the includes a quickshifter from the factory.
Power Commander 5
The Power Commander 5 controls the main fuel injectors. It is used to adjust the fueling of bike. When you install an aftermarket exhaust and/or air filter it changes how much air is flowing through the motor. Now that the air flow is changed, you must also change the amount of fuel delivered to the motor. Most bikes from the factory even have areas where the bike is running a little too lean or rich. The Power Commander allows you to change the fueling so that you can get every bit of performance you paid for.
S.F.M.(Secondary Fuel Module)
The Secondary Fuel Module is essentially another Power Commander, but it is used to control the second set of injectors. Most of the new sportbikes(including the BMW S1000RR) have 2 injectors per cylinder. The reason they do is so they can be more precise with their fueling. At lower RPM only the main injectors are used. As the RPM increases and the fuel demand grows, the upper injectors will then also turn on to supply the extra fuel needed. It's equivalent to using two little squirt guns instead of one big one. When and how the secondary injectors come on varies from bike to bike.
Autotune
The Autotune product is designed to be used with the Power Commander(and SFM if you have one). It has an oxygen sensor that you place in your exhaust pipe, which measures how rich or lean the motor is running. It constantly communicates with the Power Commander, telling it if the bike is running rich or lean. The Power Commander will then automatically change the fueling to get the fueling of the bike perfect. This is often referred to as a closed loop system. The "loop" is the process of the Autotune measuring and then the Power Commander adjusting. It does this loop over and over...measure, adjust, measure, adjust, measure, adjust.
LCD
The LCD allows you to display and record all the things that the Power Commander and Autotune are measuring. It has a touch screen and allows you to see things like throttle position, RPM, gear, speed, fuel change, air/fuel ratio, etc. on gauges while you ride.
Phew...hope that answers some questions. I imagine it probably brings up a whole slew of other questions though. Haha.
Fire away.
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That's great to hear guys.
Truth be told....I work at Dynojet so it is good to hear that the Power Commander made a difference for you guys. Along those lines...If you guys have any Power Commander questions, I'd be glad to answer them.
CBRKid....I used to race a CBR600F and I know exactly the flat spot you are talking about. Getting flat spots is pretty common when you install an aftermarket exhaust.
warregl...glad to hear the Power Commander cleaned up the lean spot on your K1200R. Have you ridden one of the new S1000RR's? Those things are impressive. BMW really raised the bar with that bike, especially with the electronics. It really lit a fire under the Japanese manufacturers butt to get more sophisticated electronics on their bikes.
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Hey guys,
I'm trying to get this Tuning section started.
First and foremost....What kind of aftermarket tuning system are you guys/gals running(Power Commander, Bazzaz, ECUnleashed, etc.)?
Why did you choose that system over the others?
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Hey ozzyp,
Sorry for the late response. For some reason I didn't get notified that you posted.
The ECUnleased reflash and the Power Commander are both trying to accomplish the same major goal, which is to get your bike fueled properly. Proper fueling is the major factor that will affect how much peak horsepower your bike will make.
If you get the bike fueled properly with an ECUnleashed reflash, then the Power Commander will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Likewise, if you get the bike fueled properly with the Power Commander, the ECUnleashed reflash will not likely give you any more peak horsepower. Both of these products do the same thing, they just do it in different ways.
It is not uncommon to see a 10% gain in peak horsepower after you've installed an aftermarket exhaust and get the bike fueled properly. A 10% gain on a ZX10 making 150hp(or so) would be 15hp.
It is important to note that both the Power Commander products and ECUnleashed reflash have other features that attract customers. I would be glad to expand on these if you are curious, but I wanted to keep my response short and to the point.
I hope that answers your question. Please let me know if you have any others!
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Hello rookie,
Dynojet does indeed make the Juice Box Pro for Two Brothers.
Removing/changing the mid pipe would definitely necessitate changes to the map in your Juice Box Pro. The good news is that you can import Power Commander maps into your Juice Box Pro using the Top Tune software.
I would suggest downloading some maps from the Power Commander website for your bike. You can load multiple maps into the Juice Box Pro and switch between them to see which one works the best.
The best solution, obviously, would be to take your bike to a dyno eguipped tuning center and get it tuned with your new pipe configuration, but I realize that is tough sometimes.
Hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
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Tinger,
We have been trying to source an M796 so that we can get all the data we need to make a Power Commander V for it.
We have heard of guys using a PCV for a M696 on the M796, but we would still like to look at one to verify it. We also need to make maps for it.
Any chance you have a M796 and would be able to make it to Vegas or Montana? There would be a free Power Commander V in it for you if you could!
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FYI to all of you interested....
We have just recently released our new Ignition Module to go along with the Power Commander V. The Ignition Module works in conjunction with the Power Commander V and allows you to control ignition timing on your bike. It has a bunch of new features, the most popular of which are a two step launch control, pit lane speed limiter, and RevXtend, which extends the stock rev limit. We now have the ability to RevXtend some of the 8 injector bikes, where previously we could not.
It is already released for most of the popular sportbikes, and more will continue to follow as we get them done.
We are also now offering an updated Power Commander V for most of the 1 and 2 cylinder bikes which has fuel AND ignition control all in one box. Essentially a Power Commander V and Ignition Module all in one box!
Check it out!
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ozzyp - You can use a Power Commander for a slip-on or full exhaust, and we usually have maps for both. The Power Commander can even make improvements on a stock bike, which we also make a map for.
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phillyjoey - The Ignition Module is only required for the 8 injector bikes. On the 8 injector bikes the PCIIIUSB only has control of 4 of the 8 injectors, so the Ignition Module is necessary to get a full kill for the quickshift(kills spark). Suzuki didn't start using 8 injectors on the GSXR600 until 2006, so you should not need a Ignition Module for the quickshifter to work.
ozzyp - Both of those bikes have a fly by wire throttle, which is how they modulate power in the different power modes(and for traction control). When you roll the throttle on, the ECU(computer) gets a "request" to open the throttle blades from the twist grip sensor. The ECU then decides how much it should open the throttle blades based on what power mode you are in, how much you twisted the throttle, what RPM you are at, and what lean angle you are at.
On these bikes the Power Commander uses the throttle blade angle sensor(not the twist grip sensor). This tells the Power Commander the amount of throttle the ECU decided to apply when you sent the "request" with the twist grip. Since the Power Commander always knows the position of the throttle blades, it will be able to fuel it consistently no matter what power mode you are in. This means that one map will fuel the bike correctly for all the different power modes.
Side note: Some of the bikes with different power modes will also retard ignition timing to modulate the power output. This should not require a different fuel map in the Power Commander.
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Hey guys,
I figured I should probably introduce myself before responding to posts...
My name is Tim Johnson. I have been a coach at CSS for the last 8 years. I am also the Product Testing/Development Manager at Dynojet Research. I work in the engineering group and my main responsibilities include testing, developing, and debugging all of our products...mainly the Power Commander.
red17 - We make a lot of maps for different exhausts for the popular sportbikes which are good, but you might see small differences bike to bike. This is where the Autotune comes in. It will make a custom map for your bike while you ride, no matter what exhaust, air filter, etc you are running on your bike. It is pretty neat...and I'm not just saying that because I work for Dynojet. The end result of this is improved throttle response, improved overall power, and more even power delivery(smoothness).
L&P - True...The main reason guys get a Power Commander is to tune the bike after they get an aftermarket exhaust, however you will get an improvement even with a stock set up. Most bikes are not tuned perfectly from the factory. They have "holes" in the tune from the factory which the Power Commander can tune out.
Keep the questions coming guys...
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Aww man...it censored me! The ### in my post are supposed to be a word synonymous with poop.
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Although Timmer is what everybody usually calls me, I'm really surprised that you guys couldn't come up with something more creative for mine. I am the #1 ###### giver and ###### taker at the US school and "Timmer" is the best you guys have got? Come on! Haha
Something tells me I might regret posting this. Haha
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Hey Dragon Lady,
The CodeRACE school and the two day camps are totally different curriculum. The RACE school is for strictly racing oriented stuff...passing, starts, racing lines, etc. It's for people who currently race or want to go racing. The two day camp focuses on your riding technique...how to go through a corner smoother, faster, more confident etc. I would definitely suggest taking the two day camp before the RACE school...it is the best training we offer. Hope this helps... if you have any other questions give the office a call and they will be glad to answer them.
Timmer
Riding Coach
California Superbike School
Hi I am new here. I am unsure on what class I should take. I need to come in the winter because I am so busy now with work. October-December is when I could come. Now what is the difference between the 2 day school and the R.A.C.E program?
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Hey purrrs2,
Like Stuman said it sounds like you are ready for Level 2. If you feel like you need a little refresher you could always brush up by reading Twist of the Wrist 1 and 2. I find reading those now and then really helps keep my understanding sharp for coaching at the schools.
Timmer
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Green Knight,
I would focus more on leg and abdominal workouts since these are the muscles you use the most on a motorcycle. Lunges, jogging, or bicycling. In fact most of the school staff are avid runners or bicyclers. The Bowflex is also an awesome tool to use to get in shape for riding season.
Timmer
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Ray,
Glad to hear that you enjoy our forum so much! Keith's teachings really do make a difference. Now you have to make it out to a school. Not only will you learn a ton but they are an absolute blast! Especially at Laguna Seca. See ya then.
Timmer
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Carlos,
If you call the office at 800-530-3350 they can give you the availability for the schools you are interested in.
Timmer
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Bhairava,
How do slide the rear tire? Easy, you apply the throttle coming off the corner until the rear tire starts to spin. Once the tire starts to spin you slowly roll off the throttle. Garry McCoy is VERY skilled at modulating the throttle to make the long slides that you see him make when he exits corners. It takes lots of practice.
The rear brake is usually not used to make the rear slide, unless the rider is using it coming INTO the corner. This is sometimes what causes the rear tire to slide around when guys are "backing it in" to a corner.
When you do Level 4 at the Superbike School you get to ride our Slide Bike where you will learn how to deal with rear wheel slides. It is a lot of fun too!
Timmer
What Electronics Are You Guys Running?
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Graves is probably using the data logging, but most of the other privateer AMA guys aren't as far as I know. I haven't heard of any street riders using the datalogging either.
A lot of the privateer AMA guys are using the Starlane GPS for datalogging.