racer
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Posts posted by racer
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Right, the engine is there to make the bike go faster, not slower.
Hubbard,
What exactly are you doing?
There are some corners that I just have to learn, and am trying, to blip the throttle. I can't afford that loss of speed. On a big straight with a slow corner at the end, I have points, just like cornering that I hold in the clutch, start braking, downshift (on the East straight from 4th to 2nd) and engine brake (doesn't matter if anyone likes the term or not, that's what I'm doing) while I'm using the front brakes for most of my stopping. I have a point just before the turn or a little into it that I have the clutch all the way released and am back on the gas.
Forgive me, I'm still not completely clear about what you are doing.
Engine braking happens when the clutch lever is out, ie. disengaged.
If you have the clutch lever pulled in, there is very little* or no engine braking.
If you have the clutch lever pulled in one time for multiple downshifts, there is a chance of catching a false neutral. Or if you hold the clutch in so long that the engine speed falls, the hydraulic connection of the oil in the wet clutch will create drag on the input shaft and we hear a loud clunk when shifting. This is can damage the the transmission, and again, there is a good chance you will bounce out of gear or into a false neutral.
I have to step out for a bit. I'll finish this later.
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I arrived at my best theory about it last summer after catching myself doing something similar on my "ten speed" bicycle as I pulled away from a stop with all my weight on one pedal.
In a nutshell, if they are setting up the calf raise and locking on with the outside leg ahead of time, it may simply be a matter of balancing until they are ready to turn in.
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Watching Rossi yesterday on the Speed channel, I noticed he kept sticking his left leg out as he approached one of the left hand turns, almost dangling it out before putting his foot back on the peg, extending his knee, and taking the turn.
Just curious as to why he would do that? Maybe his foot was falling asleep? Ha ha
Wild watching him pass Pedrosa and then go on to lengthen his lead by quite a bit!!
We discussed this at some length in another thread a couple months ago. Guys on SBK are doing it too. No definitive answer yet. Someone is just going to have to corner Val and ask him.... WTF?
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Ok, here's the official dope.
Tire pressures for public highway use vary from machine to machine and are chosen by the manufacturer. Regardless of what the tire says, you go with the machine spec tire pressures found in your owner's manual or perhaps on a tag under the seat.
That said... the 180/55 ZR17 D209 Qualifier rear tire I pulled off the rack this morning said "805 kg max load at 42 psi".
Perhaps there is a difference between US and UK spec Dunlop ratings, but, check what your bike calls for. And, IMO, I still say tht 42 psi is too high for one up street riding.
r
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Right, the engine is there to make the bike go faster, not slower.
Hubbard,
What exactly are you doing?
The proper form is to get the majority of the braking done first before downshifting. That makes the downshiting easier and reduces engine braking.
Thor,
Settling the rear. What does that mean?
ARe you saying that using the rear brake makes the rear of the bike squat?
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The one rider I despise is Mladin. OK, we get it. You are on the fastest bike in AMA racing. Now go race the big boys and let's see what you can do. And he complains and has a poor excuse for his loses. Your bike failed inspection and your points are gone. Don't start complaining and inviting everyone to inspect the other two bikes.
I agree about the complaining and excuses and attitude. Didn't he ride a season with World Superbikes or GP back near the beginning of his career?
Anyway, I think he's probably satisfied with his comfy salary and isn't looking for a challenge. Can't say as I blame him for that. I mean, at his age: a bird in the hand... , eh? Why go get his a$$ kicked by a bunch of young bucks and maybe risk losing his salary or his big fish/small pond reputation? That said, he's not on my list of respected competitors.
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2006 Honda CBR1100XX Blackbird?
(Pan-Euro spec model, of course.
) Why are there no XX graphics on the fairing?
1997 - carburetor
no decals because she got a new paintjob. i think the owner before me let her fall down while he was parking. no real accident. but i don´t care about the optic. 3 things are that count: motor rear tire front tire1997 ... would that make it a "Super" Blackbird then?
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Another note:
The stick type tire pressure gauges sold at your local auto parts store can be somewhat inaccurate and inconsistent from one to another. If you are really serious about tire pressures, you'll need to get a professional dial type gauge with a bleeder button. These models are much more accurate, and are adjustable so they can be tested and "zeroed out" like a high quality scale.
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Cobie- do you know what pressures does the school use on their ZX-6R's? I have Dunlop Qualifiers on my CBR600, but I set them at the recommended pressure, 36 front, 42 rear. I didn't have any problems with them sticking on any of my track days this year. They did get hot enough the outer edge of the rear tires started to get a little bit blue.
In lieu of Cobie's reply, while you are waiting...
I think Cobie said that Will told him they ran 29 psi in the front and 31 psi in the rear for that school. And, they probably vary pressures a bit for variations in weather and different tracks. I could be mistaken on that quote, but, IMO, that would be a good average number for the track. In any case, you can probably find Cobie's original post with the search function here at the top of the page.
On the street, probably something more like 32 front and 34 rear would be good starting point for typcial "normal" riding. If you want to build some heat to take advantage of the potential grip of the compound, you'll probably need to go a bit lower still. I'll check my Dunlop info packs at work tomorrow to see what they suggest.
However, IMO, 36 psi front and 42 psi rear is definitely WAY too high for a single rider. At those pressures, I believe you are going to be losing a good deal of performance due to a lack of flex/heat and a significantly reduced contact patch. Those numbers sound like MAXIMUM pressures for riding on the highway under MAXIMUM load, like two-up with luggage. Again, I'll grab a tire off the rack and check it out tomorrow, but, I'm betting that if you read carefully, those are max load pressure figures.
I'd suggest dropping down to at least 32 front and 34 rear as a maximum starting point for proper carcass flex and contact patch size/shape for riding alone on the street. I think at 32/34 you will still be trading off some grip for increased tread life, which is OK in my book. But, those numbers should at least give you a proper contact patch.
r
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For the track, it would be a good idea to look at the second link.
Thanks, I will. I didn't have time yesterday.
The rear brake increases stability of the bike.I didn't know that.
If you don't have the brain power to use both brakes, fine. I don't when I'm going fast, most of the time.I'm thinking about the novice/student rider learning the front brake and becoming proficient with the throttle blip/front brake technique first. It seems the most logical progression before adding the rear brake to me. I myself just never bothered to learn more than that. I didn't realize there might be an advantage.
After 30 years of riding, and 7 on sportbikes, it's taken me 2 years to get a feel for the rear brake on my sportbike. It definitely decreases the "drama" of the bike when rapidly slowing. Do I use it all the time? No. It depends on how important it is to have the bike controlled. If I don't mind the bike getting a little loose and squirrely, I don't worry about it and use the clutch and down shifts to control the rear.If I need the bike to be as smooth and controlled as possible, I use the rear.
Thanks for that info. I'll definitely check it out.
Now how I do that is a whole different discussion.I'm all ears.
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2006 Honda CBR1100XX Blackbird?
(Pan-Euro spec model, of course.
) Why are there no XX graphics on the fairing?
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test
i also found that if you check an emoticon at the bottom, it will go in the header above your post
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Hey Heisti,
Here are some "manual" smilies/emoticon codes. They are the only ones I've found that work here so far:
Eliminate the space between the characters so...
: ) =
: ( =
; ) =
: o =
: D =
: P =
Here are some more...
:lol : =
:rolleyes : =
:blink : =
:wacko : =
Again, eliminate the space between the last two characters to activate the code.
Bitte,
racer
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I thought maybe you call your motorcycle your "fat lady"?
exactly what i am doing.
That's what I thought you meant.
I'd be glad to see a picture of your "fat lady"!
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Are you referring to a woman... or your motorcycle?
here we talk about bikes - right? no? ok, no problem. the other one doesn´t have 250kg - but has also a lot of piston ;-)
Seriously. I know some people who refer to their motorcycles in more, um... personal terms like "she" or "her", just like they do their truck or their boat or their car...
I just wanted to clarify that in case some people might have got the wrong idea about what you meant. I thought maybe you call your motorcycle your "fat lady"?
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To whom it may concern:
The only really relevant difference from one motorcycle (machine) to another when talking about tire pressures is going to be the weight of the bike. Then, after the tire itself, how fast you are riding or how hard you are pushing the tires. Hence, one 600cc machine is going to be pretty much like another when thinking about tire pressures.
I didn't offer any specific pressures before since there are new tire technologies and each rider is going have their own personal preferences, however, in the interest of some basic useful data:
Depending on the tire brand and model of tire, typical average starting pressures are going to be around 30 psi. And, typically, a little more pressure in the rear than the front, say 2-3 psi. Cooler or cloudy days you may want to go a little lower, ie. 28 front, 30 rear. Hot or sunny days a little higher, like 32 psi front and 34 psi rear. These are VERY general guidelines for DOT race compound tires. There are newer tires that use less pressure, and, ultimately, your tire brand, model and compound combined with riding style and ambient temperature and track surface temperature will dictate what pressure and pressure rise will be needed to attain the proper tire temperature for you. The best course of action is to contact your tire company's racing representative at the track you are riding if possible. I realize that this is not going to be possible at most track days for the public. So, maybe check out a club race event, or, better yet, a pro level event and talk to the tire rep/vendors there. Remember, how hard you ride will affect how much the tire flexes and how much heat will be generated.
r
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...what did you want to post?
just me and my fat lady btw - smilies i can´t use too. maybe firefox3 is the problem or is it the board?
Fat lady?
Are you referring to a woman... or your motorcycle?
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That msf-usa.org report was very interesting. Thanks for that, Thor.
However, keep in mind that that report was based on "emergency braking". That is stopping the bike in the shortest distance possible with a full stop being the ultimate goal. Ultimately, like the report says, trying to modulate two independent braking systems is a very complex endeavour in any circumstance, even for an expert rider who is capable of standing the bike on its front wheel with the front brake. Add to that needing to blip the throttle for multiple downshifts in preparation for a quick turn maneuver and the level of complexity will overdraw the novice $10 bank account of attention pretty quick!
IMO, in an educational situation, the question becomes, what is the best or most effective way to teach and/or learn to use the brakes? I have to agree with Keith Code's philosophy that proficiency with the front brake is paramount or foundational and best precedes any advanced skills training, ie. learning to use both brakes together to gain the last tenth of one percent of stopping distance which is not really critical in a normal riding situation and is far outweighed, IMO, by the ability to focus on more important things, like smooth simultaneous downshits.
Personally, under normal circumstances, I find that closing the throttle to weight the front wheel is more than sufficient. I then utilize progressive braking force at the front lever and regularly lift the rear wheel under racing conditions. The only time I use the rear brake as suggested in the msf-usa report (outside of slippery conditions, ie. rain, oil or off-track grass, dirt, gravel, etc) is if the front wheel is still light after rolling off the throttle, ie. say when needing to brake while cresting a hill. And although the flywheel effect of the motor may ultimately increase stopping distance by .01 percent during an emergency stop, I NEVER pull in the clutch when braking under normal circumstances.
racer
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Hubbard,
OK, just read you post, we were writing at the same time. Yeah, we've done schools down in Phoenix in over 100 degree weather, know what you mean.
One question/comment: I've been told that sodas are diuretics, and not had them recommended, same with coffee--any data on that?
Best,
Cobie
Caffeine is a diuretic.
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Sodium is OK, but, Potassium is better.
This statement couldn't be more wrong.
Yes, I corrected myself above. Perhaps you missed it.
As for K being insignificant... I'm not a medical doctor or even a health professional. And I only know what I was taught in mainstream university 25 years ago and what was published in JAMA in the 1990's when I was researching these things for my own benefit. And no I'm not going to search for footnotes now.
I'd suggest that folks who are concerned about this topic should do their own research and that the best data is probably not going to be found on a motorcycle racing school website in any case. That isn't to say good data can't be found here, merely that unless someone wants to post their qualifications, CV, and relevant peer reviewed research, well... you might take it with a... erm... grain of salt? <g>
r
Your information is wrong and potentially harmful to the health and welfare of others.
Potentially harmful? Well that sounds like pretty darn important information. Will you please be SPECIFIC about which information is potentially harmful?! Being a medical professional, I would think getting that data out would be more important to you than the schadenfreud of telling me how wrong I am... ?
It does matter what is read in any site because of the damage that can be caused. You can see it in the replies that you've spurred by your comments. My credentials are more than enough that I'd suggest that you were incorrect in many different ways. I never said that potassium is insignificant, only that it is not important in replenishing during or even after a long day at the track. SODIUM IS!!! You seem to be of the mind, whether you've corrected yourself or not, that if one thing (sodium) is good, then another (potassium) is better. It's a very, very simple and incorrect way of thinking. And again, potentially harmful to others.I am of NO MIND on any of this matter and am patiently waiting for you to stop telling me what a bad and harmful person I am and start telling this website your credentials and some useul data.... LIKE A GOOD DIET FOR TRACK DAYS?
And I would gladly post my credentials (or qualifications) if it would mean that some of the people who are less educated on this topic would listen to me over the bogus information that you've provided. I would argue the point of your JAMA reference as well.HELLO? Waiting?
I'm here to learn, and by your posts, would concede that you probably know more about motorcycle riding than I do. Leave the medical advice to the professionals. Please.GLADLY! My point precisely!
Erm... and we're still waiting for that professional advice... ???
If you can't or won't speak directly to the subject, perhaps you can point us to some peer reveiwed research on the matter?
Thanks,
racer
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I'd suggest that folks who are concerned about this topic should do their own research and that the best data is probably not going to be found on a motorcycle racing school website in any case. That isn't to say good data can't be found here, merely that unless someone wants to post their qualifications, CV, and relevant peer reviewed research, well... you might take it with a... erm... grain of salt? <g>
r
or how about take it with a tablet of potatssium! (that was only midly pathetic, but I couldn't resist).
Hee-hee.
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I'm really falling in love with the world superbike scene.
Me too!
Spec tires have done wonders for the SBK. I haven't caught any 600 races, but, I can imagine.
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I don't think throwing hands up is the right approach either. We can share knowledge. If you have a little, someone else contributes, we can eventually get somewhere. Since medial protocol changes constantly, using 18-25 year old references may not be the best advice. We need new, fresh ideas for a current problem that affects our special interest, quicker lap times. :-)
I think that's what I said.
Unfortunately, I don't think this is a subject where good data can be formed by building a consensus.
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Sodium is OK, but, Potassium is better.
This statement couldn't be more wrong.
Yes, I corrected myself above. Perhaps you missed it.
As for K being insignificant... I'm not a medical doctor or even a health professional. And I only know what I was taught in mainstream university 25 years ago and what was published in JAMA in the 1990's when I was researching these things for my own benefit. And no I'm not going to search for footnotes now.
I'd suggest that folks who are concerned about this topic should do their own research and that the best data is probably not going to be found on a motorcycle racing school website in any case. That isn't to say good data can't be found here, merely that unless someone wants to post their qualifications, CV, and relevant peer reviewed research, well... you might take it with a... erm... grain of salt? <g>
r
I don't think throwing hands up is the right approach either. We can share knowledge. If you have a little, someone else contributes, we can eventually get somewhere. Since medial protocol changes constantly, using 18-25 year old references may not be the best advice. We need new, fresh ideas for a current problem that affects our special interest, quicker lap times. :-)
I think that's what I said.
) 
Maximum Braking Effect
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Hi Jay,
Yes, you are correct. However, some people consider "engage" to mean the act of pulling the lever (or pushing the pedal) itself. In any case, people use the term both ways which is why I specified which one I meant so there would be no misunderstanding.
Thanks,
racer