fastlane Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 I have a 2007 GSXR 600 that I immediately attached Helibar clip-ons to. My original intention was to have the bike as a comfortable street bike so I wanted a less aggressive riding position. I'm a 5' 2" female and probably have shorter arms than the 'average' the bike was designed for. The Helibars move the bars back 1 inch, are 2 inches taller and 1 1/4 inches wider at 26 1/4" I've since turned the bike into a track-only race bike. So, in an effort to improve my cornering abilities, I've been wondering if I should remove the Helibars and go back to stock or get an aftermarket set. (I already have rearsets so that aspect is covered.) I think that if I change my body position by lowering and moving the clip ons forward, it would improve my overall handling. Currently I'm sitting more upright and therefore more in the windstream. I also think there would be a positive effect on my pivot points etc. I'd appreciate peoples' thoughts about if it would really make a difference. Thanks! Faye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlefield Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 This is just me but I would think feeling comfortable and secure are more important than the actual physics of body postion. So whatever feels best to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Faye My vote is to go back to the stock (or aftermarket) set. There is a huge difference (IMHO) between a street ride and a track ride and with your converting your bike to track only, a more upright riding position could become a hinderance to your progress as your speed increases. Kevin Kane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hi fastlane, Back in the olden times of the original Keith Code school v.1.2 (circa 1986 or so), when the 600 Ninja was first introduced, Keith elected to install aftermarket handlebar kits called "Storz Superbike Bars" on the 600 Ninja school bikes. These bars were higher and wider (like a dirt bike) and provided more leverage due to the wider grip position and were easier to get "behind" (instead of "over") providing still more leverage from a more natural riding position. Many of the most famous fast superbike racers at the time (Bubba Shobert, et al) were using Storz bars and, after getting comfortable with what felt like a motocross handlebar on a cafe racer, I found them to be an amazing advantage. In fact, after getting used to the Storz bars, going back to the stock clip-ons on my street 600 Ninja was really uncomfortable and made fast riding (quick flicking) physically more demanding and difficult from a practical standpoint. I suppose in the end it is a matter of personal preference. If you are looking to gain that last second of laptime due to aerodynamics (can't get behind the bubble) or can't get your body position long and low when hanging off, then maybe the lower clip-ons will be better for you eventually or in the long run. But, frankly, for now, for your size and strength, I think wider/higher bars might provide a significant performance advantage with the increased leverage. Just my nickel, racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastlane Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 David, Kevin and racer... Thanks for your input. I used one of the school's bikes at Streets this past March and the handlebars seemed really low and forward. That felt weird at first because it affected my whole body position, compared to my gixxer. I was lower on the tank and was moved forward which made it easier when it came to using pivot points but I think I may have been adding unwanted pressure to the bars and de-stabilizing the bike. I'm not concerned with ergonomics as much as improved cornering performance. So ... I surmise the only way to find out is to go back to stock, try it and see what I think. 30 minute job for the wrench-challenged, right? LOL! It will take me half a day just to fish the stock parts out of the roof of my garage! Faye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Faye; If you take Level III (which I would highly recommend that you do) you will learn how to maximize your connection to the bike and by extension help you appreciate the reason why the bars and rear sets are where they are. ...at least it did for me. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 If you take Level III (which I would highly recommend that you do) you will learn how to maximize your connection to the bike and by extension help you appreciate the reason why the bars and rear sets are where they are. Ah, come on young Kevin! It's not nice to tease your friends! DISH!! How did Level III help you appreciate why the bars and rear sets are where they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 How did Level III help you appreciate why the bars and rear sets are where they are? For starters, Keith shows students how to use the body to maximize their ability to turn the bike using the least amount of energy. You learn the pivot turn, the hook turn, the knee to knee...among other things. You should try Level III Racer... Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 For starters, Keith shows students how to use the body to maximize their ability to turn the bike using the least amount of energy. You learn the pivot turn, the hook turn, the knee to knee...among other things. I'm familiar with those terms and concepts that are published in Keith's books and available for free at the public library. In fact, the copy of Twist II I've been referring to for the past several months belongs to my local library. If and when somebody requests it, I'll need to return it, however, I suppose my point is that I find something mildly disingenuous about hosting a public forum where the only participation by those "in the know" consists of undefined "buzz words" or vague references to secrets that can only be obtained by attending the school session which is simply not affordable or even possible for most people. Which is why the books (and I would think this forum) are out there in the first place. The bottom line is that it, our "sport", is a matter of life and death and I have a hard time witholding information that will save someone's life for a few sheckles (or pieces of silver), especially if that information is availble to the common man for free. I'm not looking to be a guru or profit. At the end of the day, perhaps those who do attend a school session could be given a password for a "members only" forum where only those who were able to afford the school session might speak in private thereby protecting the secrets of the inner sanctum... ? Or would it be better to have open discussion of their experiences as there really is no substitute for the real thing and having students show up already versed in the concepts might greatly improve their results and the stats of the school in general and... what a pleasure for the coaches that experience would be, eh? Personally, I think reading the books should be a pre-requisite for attending the schools. You should try Level III Racer... Indeed. Although I attended the school many times between 1988 and 1995, there are certainly new aspects I look forward to experiencing and soon will be unless Mid-Ohio is already full this summer... now that I can afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Racer; Whoa... This isn't about buzz words or secret handshakes; its about training. The information is in books but it is not the same as having someone (in this case Keith himself) showing you and your level III classmates how to move on a static ZX-6R (on wheel stands). Then when each student gets on the bike and he critques your movements as you try and mimick what he just did; THAT experience cannot be translated into words. After these static exercises, you go out with a coach who video tapes your ride and when you come in, you can literally see how effective you were in executing the drill. That also can't be translated into words. There is a reason the School exists - it is because Keith's words aside, theory is only the base of information that is needed to effectively corner; the other part is putting it into practice and that is why he coaches his students on how to put it all together. That' s why it takes four days to cover the cirriculum and why many like me go back after Level IV to refine and in some cases perfect what he teaches. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastlane Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hey Kevin, I took Level III & IV at Streets in March (on the school's Kaw) and I'm taking IV again at Mid-Ohio - on my own bike this time. It's because of the difference in the bikes that I started this thread. I love the set-up of my gixxer, it is comfortable and natural to me. I was just curious to see if anyone thought it would make much difference in actual performance. I appreciate your input. racer - call quickly on the Mid-O!! I'll be there on Tuesday. Faye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hey Kevin, I took Level III & IV at Streets in March (on the school's Kaw) and I'm taking IV again at Mid-Ohio - on my own bike this time. It's because of the difference in the bikes that I started this thread. I love the set-up of my gixxer, it is comfortable and natural to me. I was just curious to see if anyone thought it would make much difference in actual performance. I appreciate your input. racer - call quickly on the Mid-O!! I'll be there on Tuesday. Faye Faye; I did the same thing. I found it a little difficult integrating what I learned on an in-line four when I got back on my L-twin so I started bringing my Ducati to School. It made it so-o-o much easier because the bike's performance characteristics were already ingrained into my riding so I could concentrate on the drills. Doesn't matter if its a 4 v. twin or just a different 4, it is always easier when you know the bike your riding at School. Have a blast at Mid-O - it is my all time favorite track! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Racer; Whoa... Dear Kevin, Please forgive my "off the cuff" remarks made over morning coffee. In hindsight, perhaps my post was somewhat less than skillful wrt my intended goal(s). I meant no insult. That said, your remarks addressed to me felt a bit condescending and patronizing and seemed to imply that I lacked the experience to grasp what you were not saying by pointing to the fact that I had not attended "Level III". This isn't about buzz words or secret handshakes; its about training. I couldn't agree more. In fact, that is one part of my point skillfully reduced to a single sentence. The information is in books but it is not the same as having someone (in this case Keith himself) showing you and your level III classmates how to move on a static ZX-6R (on wheel stands). Then when each student gets on the bike and he critques your movements as you try and mimick what he just did; . After these static exercises, you go out with a coach who video tapes your ride and when you come in, you can literally see how effective you were in executing the drill. That also can't be translated into words. There is a reason the School exists - it is because Keith's words aside, theory is only the base of information that is needed to effectively corner; the other part is putting it into practice and that is why he coaches his students on how to put it all together. That' s why it takes four days to cover the cirriculum and why many like me go back after Level IV to refine and in some cases perfect what he teaches. Kevin ...THAT experience cannot be translated into words. I am quite familiar with the teaching techniques, style and spirit of Keith Code's school, even if certain techniques have been refined over the years since I last attended. And, after many classrooms and personal coaching sessions with Keith, Dylan, Cobie, et al, I wholeheartedly agree that there is no substitute for attending an actual school session. However, in my opinion, I think it is quite possible to explain in plain English (your words)... "the reason why the bars and rear sets are where they are." Or... "how to use the body to maximize [the] ability to turn the bike using the least amount of energy." And "buzz words" like ... "pivot turn, the hook turn, the knee to knee...among other things." However, that is only my opinion and I suppose what seems a simple matter to me might not seem so simple to everyone. Respectfully, racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 racer - call quickly on the Mid-O!! I'll be there on Tuesday. Faye See you there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.