Deep Cornering !

[Orion]

I'm pretty new to biking, but am progressing steadily.

 

I've read TOTW & TWOTW2 - Not yet ready to attend school but need some advice.

 

I'm cutting corners too early, rights and lefts. This often causes me to run wide - especially on fast tight bends. I know I should go deeper before turning, but have a mental block in doing this. I can't seem to convince myself that if I run an extra 10ft I will still be able to make the turn.

 

Any advice/drills would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[RoadRunner]

Do you have a plan for the corner/s?

I ask because I found this to be the biggest help when I was trying to get over the same thing as yourself.

 

I'd say choose a corner that always suckers you into turning in too early and work on that one corner so you can experiment a little.

Decide what you want from the corner - ie, where you want to be and what you want to be doing at the end.

Choose a point where you want to start getting back on the throttle which will be somewhere near the apex.

Now choose a few turn in points.

Firstly choose one that you think will compliment the other 2 the best.

Now choose one that you normally take - which is too shallow

Now choose one that is really deep.

Even though you're changing the turn in points, keep the other rp's the same so you can experience the difference beween shallow and deep turn in points.

 

Why work backwards?

Well, I found this worked really well for me because the reason I was turning in too early was that I did not know where I wanted to be at the end of the turn, and if you don't know what you want from the turn, how are you supposed to know what to do at the begining.

It's like getting into a Taxi Cab and just saying "drive". The Cab driver will ask you where to and if you don't tell him, how will he know which direction to go in?

(I know, bad analogy but it makes the point)

 

People told me to look through the corner which is good advice, but I didn't really know what I was look at.

Once I had a point at the end of the corner and at the apex, I could then choose an appropriate turn in point which would get me to those points, and I think if you experiment like this, then you may find the results you're looking for.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Orion]

Makes sense - I think I can apply this to tracks I know. Thanks.

 

How about on streets/roads where you don't know whats coming next?

[RoadRunner]

Try to look as far up the road as possible so you can make a plan as early as possible

[dsm36]

If you've read TOTW I & II, Keith has an analogy of using $10 as your attention span. With new riders, speed will take a large share of that $10 bill and you won't have much left over for other things. To help overcome your fear of making a later turn entry point, simply slow down and make yourself do it. The best way to learn any new skill or technique is to remove the speed variable until you get comfortable doing it then slowly add more speed. I have found that by using this approach, you'll get faster without even realizing it.

[EA6BMECH]

I had a friend take me deep into a corner off a straight away. 150+ and I was thinking some bad thoughts at my friend who was taking me to my death!! and it was then I found out how deep I could go and still handle the bike. Once I get use to a corner, I look at it and think "Bite me"!! and I hit it!!! It get's a little hairy sometimes but so far I handle it and do it. Sometimes it's like the monster in the closet, ya gotta have that "I'm gonna whoop your ass" attitude.. Hey, it works!!!

[Orion]

If you've read TOTW I & II, Keith has an analogy of using $10 as your attention span. With new riders, speed will take a large share of that $10 bill and you won't have much left over for other things. To help overcome your fear of making a later turn entry point, simply slow down and make yourself do it. The best way to learn any new skill or technique is to remove the speed variable until you get comfortable doing it then slowly add more speed. I have found that by using this approach, you'll get faster without even realizing it.

I have no problems taking corners deep at low speeds, the problems start when I speed up.

 

I'm sure its just a confidence thing - once I can believe that I'll make the turn later, I'll take the turn later.

 

Anyone have any new/different quick turn drills?

 

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's much appreciated.

[dsm36]

I have no problems taking corners deep at low speeds, the problems start when I speed up.

 

I'm sure its just a confidence thing - once I can believe that I'll make the turn later, I'll take the turn later.

 

Anyone have any new/different quick turn drills? 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's much appreciated.

Ok...try the "Two step turn." This was one of the drills I learned at CSS.

 

Step 1: When approaching a turn, find your initial turn point.

Step 2: Before leaning your bike into the turn, turn your head and look through the turn.

 

Each turn requires a plan. If you know where the entry, apex, and exit points are located, and have a plan before you even make the turn, you'll be better prepared to handle the turn. This will leave you free to concentrate on the next plan.

 

There are also other things that may make you run wide in a turn such as your sense of speed, target fixation, SRs, reference points, etc., and most importantly your throttle control. It's all about control and not about speed. However, more control equals more speed.

 

I suggest you take a class as soon as you are able. Keith Code explains all drills in great detail, the riding instructors help you get the drills down and may even help get rid of any bad riding habits. It is worth the investment, and best of all, the most fun you can have on two wheels at speed.

 

Good Luck, and as Keith says, "Keep the rubber side down."

[Grounded]

Orion,

 

I'm not new to biking but new to track riding having just returned from the two-day at Mid Ohio.

 

Near the end of the second day I focused a bit on one turn to start building confidence. The turning point was established ("spoon fed"), I was satisfied that I had a good apex point and knew where I was going (wanted) to finish. My drill was to increase my entry speed a bit with each lap (I was trying to learn the bike feel and pitch heard from the engine referenced to rpm so I wouldn't have to look). I also didn't rush to the turn requiring braking; I was trying to eleminate as many distractions as possible. I established my speed very early, did the two step and tried to relax and twist up as I went SCREAMING through the turn (so it seemed). Well, when I got through without any issues I bumped it up a bit more. A bit later I started this with another turn. I didn't make much progress with this one. It was the end of the day, was burned out and getting sloppy.

 

I would like to spend a lot of time with this drill. Seemed to work for me.

[Keith Code]

Hang on here dsm36, I NEVER say "keep the rubber side down", never have and never will.

Aslo, I never said to look "through" the turn. Please review those pages in TOTW II. There is a very specific point to look for just before you intiate the corner. THe 2-Step is a precision tool which applies to all corners.

 

Saying look through the corner isn't possible with all turns but looking for your apex point usually is,

provided you haven't gotten sucked into turning too early for the turn.

 

Keith

[Orion]

Gents/Keith,

 

Thanks for the advice - it's greatly improved my riding.

 

Re-reading TOTW 2 found a lot of what has been mentioned. I now understand the differnece between reading and understanding!!

 

Thanks again.

[KomodoRacing]

I have a similar problem with cornering, but it's a little different.

 

On avg to fast corners, I'm fine. I hit the apex and come out of the corner perfect. On corners following high-speed straights, I have problems.

 

First off, I find myself coasting at the end of the straights instead of continuing to accelerate. Secondly, I'm afraid to initiate the turn-in at high speed and find myself keeping the bike upright until I'm down to a comfortable speed, turning-in too late, and missing the apex.

 

I'm just getting comfortable with trail braking, which I know will help, but what can I do to get comfortable turning in while at high speeds and being confident that trail braking will get me down to speed?

 

Thx.

[Keith Code]

komodoracing

 

First off you have to look towards the basics before you get into any confusions about your turn entry. My question is: in the types of turn you are talking about (and it would be good if you gave an example like turn one at Willow Springs) do you have an actual turn in point already established or are you just turning in when you feel your speed is OK?

 

Keith

[Blue636]

I would just take the school if I were some of you, not to sound rude. For those of you that already have, great! There is a HUGE difference between reading, understanding, and actually performing the techniques. I have no problem with reading the books and all that, it definitely does help. But going to the school is like living out the book with people watching and correcting your every move.

 

I read both books and constantly reference them whenever I feel I'm having trouble with the way I ride. I thought some of the material in the book was even questionable, but when you get to the school you need to overcome your doubts and just do the drills and exercises they tell you to do. This really opened up my eyes and it made me realize I was truly nowhere NEAR THE LIMIT. You'll be surprised what a motorcycle can actually do when you have a specific drill to practice and someone encouraging you to do it. I learned this especially in the first drill of the first class; it was quite scary but opened up my confidence for the rest of the day.

 

It's money well spent.

 

(Sorry for the plugs, Keith)

[xtrmln]

Fine reading. I think there is alot of good advice. For me I found along with determining where I wanted to be in the corner one basic fundamental helped me the most in regards to entering corners deeper (or at the proper point) rather than earlier. That was getting quicker with my steering input ie quick flick. I made a point of working on improving the speed in which it took me to get the bike to the desired lean angle. To be honest how fast I can flick my bike now, I once didn't think was a possibility. After improving my speed I found that I just naturally took the bike in deeper because of my confidence in my ability to get the bike turned in the amount of time needed to accomplish my goal for where I planned on being in the corner.

[Keith Code]

xtrmin

 

You've got it. That is one of the many reasons we emphasize the Quick Flick, it is one of the huge components of comfidence and goes hand in hand with turn entry speed becoming a tool instead of a dangerous black hole you don't want to get too close to.

 

Really well done on that,

 

Keith