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Proper Bp Leads To Knee Down On The Turns?


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I've been to the track just a few times and although I've worked on my body positioning over the years, I don't think proper BP is quite what it needs to be. I've read I think all the KC books, other authors as well and took some brief 10-15 mins coaching advice from a track club during one of their track meets but I still don't think my BP is proper.

 

I decided to enroll in the 2-day CSS school. I've also come close to scraping knee pucks when corning but I guess my BP isn't quite right. How far can a rider lean the bike over? Is the knee the reference point?

 

Thoughts?

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How far you can lean the bike over is a function of a lot of mechanical issues

 

A MotoGP bike can achieve lean angles of 60-63 deg, a production street bike will be more in the 45 - 50 deg range, depending on suspension and tires etc. etc.

 

Body type and body position will affect how early a riders knee contacts the pavement, extra long legs make it easy, short legs not so much. You can use horrible body position to get your knee down with very little lean angle, but that has no real gains to speak of.

 

At some point the knee does become a reference point for how much lean angle you're using, however when and where that happens is rider specific.

 

It all comes with practice and track time

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Body type and body position will affect how early a riders knee contacts the pavement, extra long legs make it easy, short legs not so much. You can use horrible body position to get your knee down with very little lean angle, but that has no real gains to speak of.

 

At some point the knee does become a reference point for how much lean angle you're using, however when and where that happens is rider specific.

 

It all comes with practice and track time

 

Thanks and yes I agree. I'm looking forward to learning more about proper BP during my 2 day camp and eventually through the use of proper BP, vision and a bit more lean angle, I'm sure it'll happen. I guess trusting tires is a part of the equation.

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I may happen for you at the camp.

 

I have never been able to attend CSS, but it was advice from this forum and also gleaned from reading TOTW that got me to the point where I was dragging knee on the track. In my case it was about learning to have faith in the grip available, to the point that I could 1) turn the bike really hard, and 2) be completely relaxed on the bars while leaned over in the corner.

 

Your issues may be totally different than mine were, but as the CSS folks help you work past whatever they are you will eventually find the corner speed that has you wearing out your pucks.

 

It's all mental. The bikes can do so much more than we think they can. Faith is a big part of the equation.

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Thanks for the feedback; I do appreciate it. Well we shall see with additional training, patience and practice, I'm sure at least at min, one will touch. ;) Maybe it's not such a goal for some but for me and I think many others, it is. :mellow: I think also a good reference point at the very least.

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I found an old thread that explains a lot of the issue I struggle with.

 

IMG_0710_2.jpg

 

 

See for me in this photo, I felt hanging off anymore....and off I go.. this is where I'm hoping CSS comes in and can teach me a thing or two about better/improved BP. Boy is seems like I need it. Interesting how critical BP can be to manage cornering effectively.

 

I guess I'll know more, very soon with the assistance of good ole CSS.

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What I notice in the photo above is that your inside shoulder is very far forward, forcing you to have to twist your neck to look over that shoulder. I can't see your hips but the position of your knee (which appears to not be in good contact with the tank) and the counter-rotation of your shoulders would imply that you are not rotating your hips into the corner. Often when riders hang their butt way off, they end up pivoting around the tank (rotating the hips the wrong way), losing the outside knee lock, feeling like they are about to fall off, and having to use that inside arm to prop up the upper body.

 

If you were to hang your butt off less, could you rotate your hips TOWARD the corner, lock your outside knee into the tank more firmly, and then hang the upper body inside and down more? Would that allow you to rotate your chest more into the corner?

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What I notice in the photo above is that your inside shoulder is very far forward, forcing you to have to twist your neck to look over that shoulder. I can't see your hips but the position of your knee (which appears to not be in good contact with the tank) and the counter-rotation of your shoulders would imply that you are not rotating your hips into the corner. Often when riders hang their butt way off, they end up pivoting around the tank (rotating the hips the wrong way), losing the outside knee lock, feeling like they are about to fall off, and having to use that inside arm to prop up the upper body.

 

If you were to hang your butt off less, could you rotate your hips TOWARD the corner, lock your outside knee into the tank more firmly, and then hang the upper body inside and down more? Would that allow you to rotate your chest more into the corner?

 

 

Thanks much Hotfoot. Yeah sound like you've hit the nail on the head; the left shoulder is in fact too far ahead and I think I was hanging off too much (too much emphasis on touching pucks) which is what you've pointed essentially improper BP. I think I need to cover those areas you'd discuss and concentrate on proper BP. I think my upper body wasn't aligned properly either.

 

Less butt off seat

Rotate hips toward corner

Lock outside knee into tank

Align upper body inside (or outside the tank?) :huh:

Head near mirror (depending on where I'm turning)

 

I think definitely think that will assist better cornering into the turn.

 

 

and ultimately i need to practice, practice, practice.

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If you were to hang your butt off less, could you rotate your hips TOWARD the corner, lock your outside knee into the tank more firmly, and then hang the upper body inside and down more? Would that allow you to rotate your chest more into the corner?

 

Given how you'd explained it, yes....I think with some adjustments, I think my chest would rate much better into the corner.

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Something else to consider...

 

What is lean angle a function of?

 

Hint: Without this no matter how perfect the body position your knee will never touch. It's also impossible to see in a static photo. :)

 

Interestingly enough this element of riding is what you are really after rather than the knee touching the pavement.

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