Hammer 4 Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 In one of my favorite turns, a downhill lefthander, on my 600, comming out of the turn, I spun up the rear, although it felt like I was losing the rear, and about to lowside, so stoopid me, I le off the gas and was about to let go of the bars. This was at a prety good lean angle, sill had my knee on the deck, anyway, I wound up highsiding...I walked over to the tarmac, and saw about a 6 foot long blackie, it was straight, except for that crummy Z shape at the end.. So now, I'm hesitant about really applying alot of gas on the drive out of the turns..I asked this on another race site, and was suggesed that I weight the outside peg to help stand the bike up, and to help steer with he rear. Having read TOTW a buncha times, I recall that weighting the outside peg helps to keep the bike setteled over a bumpy area, bu I have never tried weighting the outside to help stand the bike up... Any comments, or suggestions...? I have a track day comming up in a week, and am anxious to give this a try.. Signed...tired of gettin passed on the drive out.. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Hammer, Instead of reworking your foot peg loading...how about just holding the throttle while you slide? If I remember the lean/slide bike drill, the trick was that once the rear tire broke free, to work the throttle just enough until the rear hooked up again. It sounds like letting off the gas was your undoing (no pun intended). Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 From One Hammer to another I recently had the same problem and did the same as you I chopped the throttle and the bike threw me out of the seat, luck was on my side and I stayed on but only just. So I spoke to one of the fast group boys and it reminded what I had already read so my advice is this. If the bike starts to slide just check the throttle if you are on the way out of the turn you are right that you can weight the outside footpeg, I also stand it up by counter steering to get it on the fat part of the tyre as soon as I can and gradually open the throttle. So far this has meant I have been able to spin the rear a bit without losing the drive out of the turns. Don't forget to much spin = no drive and loss of speed, it's a fine line and can only be achieved with good throttle control. Good Luck Hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeF4y Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Hammer(s) Sliding & spinning up are some of those things you really have to get used to. There are times for more gas and times for less. First off, sliding & spinning up are 2 distinctly different things. Sliding can be caused by a tiny contact patch, reduced surface friction (read traction - from sand/oil/etc), and can be caused with NO throttle input. I can induce a slide easily by hammering the front brakes and throwing the bike into the corner with the rear end very light. Spinning up is completely and totally a product of contact patch and throttle input. When you're at FULL lean angle and it starts going (we'll address spinning here, not sliding), more throttle is only going to make it worse. Likewise, a dramatic cut-off of throttle can either push the front out, or flip you off the high-side (less likely if at extreme lean angle). If you're at an extreme lean angle, the contact patch of the rear tire is quite small, so spinning up is pretty easy, especially on big HP bikes. To control it, you need to increase the contact patch and reduce the spinning by easing off the throttle. This is not as difficult as it seems. Simply keep yourself off the bike, and pick the bike up a tiny bit. A single degree will result in a dramatic increase in contact patch without terribly affecting your cornering line (which is already screwed up since the rear end is coming around on you). To address your 'getting beat, losing the drive out of corners', when you're in a corner, you should be on the gas. Period. Now, you can maintain at an even speed, or feed a touch on. My personal preference is to feed a touch on. I've made GREAT strides with this. And in instances (such as the last race weekend), greed has caught up with me. The throttle input while leaned over has to be extremely fine. If you get ham-fisted or greedy, you will start spinning and can lose it pretty easily. However, on the EXIT of a turn (read - after the apex), you should be in the position to accellerate. Assuming you've been thorough level 2, you should be using the "pick-up" drill for your turn exits. Getting the rear tire on some decent portion of rubber is your prime objective. It will allow you to get back on the gas faster. Also, the corner itself plays a large part. Are you uncomfortable and/or getting beat in long sweepers, or tighter corners? Long sweepers are corners where you can play with the throttle more than tight corners. Again, it's a matter of very subtle inputs and much discretion. Obviously, suspension and tire wear come well into play here, as well as understanding how big of a bike you're on, but those are not things I can really address here. So... The points to take away from here... 1. Throttle control is KEY 2. Turn as quickly as you can, to get back on the gas much quicker 3. Strive for a larger contact patch when you're hard on the gas Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Trying to weight the outside peg is not the solution to a spinning rear tire IMHO. Proper use of the throttle is or better yet picking the bike up into the slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer 4 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Ahhh, another Hammer... First, let me say, I have never taken any MC schools...I have raced Dirt track...so sliding isn't an issue with me, whthere it's in the fast sweepers, or tighter turns....as I've had both tires slide on me at speeds from 50mph...to 130 mph..I say relaxed, and the throttle is kept on...sometimes I'll gradually roll it on too.. From what I've gathered, I was Greedy at the wrong time, i.e. too much lean, and prolly to much gas..so I understand about standing the bike a wee bit to get a better contact patch..and yup, usually I'm getting whipped in the tighter turns.. Also, I should mention that in any turn, I take Keith's advice, and am on the gas asap..Being on the gas gives you so much more control. If someone would be so kind as to exsplain the stand up drill, it would most appreciated..if it's a Secret, I understand.. Anyways, lots of good advice here...I appreciate your comments.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer 4 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Trying to weight the outside peg is not the solution to a spinning rear tire IMHO. Proper use of the throttle is or better yet picking the bike up into the slide. O.K....now you have me thinking...just exactly how do you pick the bike up, while in a slide..? I could do that on a dirt tracker, but never tried it on asphault...do you use your knee..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 O.K....now you have me thinking...just exactly how do you pick the bike up, while in a slide..? I could do that on a dirt tracker, but never tried it on asphault...do you use your knee..? Come to the school and do level two and we will teach you Basically it's just counter steering the bike up a little sooner, but instead of allowing your body to go up with the bike, you kind of hang off more and let the bike come up under you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Pick it up by counter steering it into the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer 4 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Stu...I'd love to ...if you can find someone I can hire to help me get all this work finished... I always thought you had to do level I first...? Thanks Kevin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Trying to weight the outside peg is not the solution to a spinning rear tire IMHO. Proper use of the throttle is or better yet picking the bike up into the slide. Hi Stuman, In response to your quote I'm already picking the bike up when it spins up but I also apply pressure to the outside footpeg. Does this have any advantage or should I just concentrate on picking it up and modulating the throttle. I did Level 1 at Silverstone on 6th October and I'm eagerly awaiting the dates for next year as I plan to do 2,3 & 4. Now I'm looking forward to the pick up drill to make sure I am doing it correctly. Many thanks for the info Hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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