stuman
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Posts posted by stuman
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I don't think anyone is saying that using the clutch to downshift is "completely debilitating ".
What I and some others are saying is that doing clutchless downshifts isn't bad form either and that when done correctly it is no worse for the tranny then using the clutch.
I think there are some advantages to not using the clutch, one being that in many cases it can force your to do your downshifts later in the braking cycle. When using the clutch to downshift, many riders tend to do their downshifts to early and spin the motor to the moon. When doing clutchless downshifts you have to hold off on your downshifts a little longer so you can unload the tranny properly, this puts less stress on the motor.
In any case, it seems like the original poster is interested in learning this technique and I don't see the point in trying to persuade him not to do so. If it is not for you Eirik that is fine, but please understand there are many riders that visit this forum that have a pretty advanced skill set and some of these riders are willing to try a new technique and evaluate on their own if it benefits them. Clutchless downshifting might not benefit the original poster, but on the other hand it might.
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You can mess up a down shift with or without the clutch, either way your going to stress the trany, messing up a clutchless downshift would be no more damaging then if you miss timed your use of the clutch and jammed the bike down a gear without matching the revs.
Jaybird, the internet is full of misinformation, you have to decide who you choose to believe. My posts on this forum are simply my opinion, you can give as much or a little credence to them as you like.
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it will put more stress on the tranny than if you at least partially disengage the clutch.
Another myth perpetuated by the internet and simply untrue.
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A bunch of coaches at the school do clutchless downshifts, I think Cobie is one of them?
Anyway, it takes a bit of practice but it can be done with or without a slipper clutch. It can be done at race pace as well. If done correctly it is no harder on the tranny then using the clutch.
My downshifting technique seems to change on a daily basis as of late
but I used to do two clutchless downshifts on the Big Track at Willow Springs when entering turn nine. You don't really have to brake much for that turn, just roll off and down shift so I found it pretty easy to do clutchless downshifts there. Most other places I use the clutch. -
That is good stuff
Austin was looking really good this past weekend at The Streets Eric!I had some fun riding with one of our coaches' son a couple weeks ago at Adams
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I got a new HD Helmet cam this weekend and tried it out for one of the races.
This was the Supermoto Unlimited class race at The Streets of Willow Springs from my point of view
Yeah, we get a little crazy sometimes
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I went to an event at the Mojave airport once where we did top speed runs on the run way. We had some turbo busas and really fast cars show up and we did some races car vs bike. It is pretty funny to watch a turbo busa walk away from a Lambo like it is standing still.
Anyway, I got the chance to do a couple runs on my Concours 1400 and hit like 175mph. I was racing a Porche GT and they came by me toward the end. It wasn't very demanding physically so I think it might be something for you to try.
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I'll be at the code race school end march in wilow springs and I must say I am pretty excited to try this bike! (and also a little scared to be honest...)
There is nothing to fear. The different traction control/abs settings can make it pretty docile. Once your confidence in the bike comes up, you can up the settings.
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Good job on getting 10th! It sounds like you had a great weekend.
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i,m assuming the backing in and push it under is a lot to do with the relative speeds and grip of the tyres as opposed to in a roadrace tarmac situation on a quick steering sports bike .
your thoughts ???
Hey Teg,
I did a flat track school and raced flat track a couple times last year and your right the riding position is very different from what you do on a road race bike. I think this is mostly due to the lack of traction and the rough surface.
When you push the bike down under you flat track style, it is easier to allow the bike to move around under you. When you're going though a corner on a flat track bike and the front and rear are sliding then hooking up and the bike is moving all over the place, if is way easier to allow the bike to move under you if your sitting on top.
Another reason for this riding position on the flat track bike is that you can pick the bike up coming off the corner way better.
It is also easier to recover from front slides in this position. At the flat track school I did they taught you NOT to lean into the corner! This is pretty much the exact opposite of what we do on a road race bike. The instructors would actually beat you with a stick as you came by them if they saw you leaning in, not joking! And as I quickly found out, if you are leaning in roadrace style on a flat track bike and the front slides (which it does pretty much all the time) you end up on you face quite quickly (which I did many times before they broke me of this bad habit).
I hope that helps.
Anyway, I love riding all different forms of motorcycles. I ride Roadrace, Trials, Flat Track, Supermoto, Motocross, Trail Rides in the desert, and casual rides on the street. One thing I find really interesting is how some things you do on one bike don't work at all on another bike. Some things translate really well to all bikes. The trick is figuring out what to do on each type of bike.
Lately I have been riding more Supermoto and Motocross more then anything else. Well, I do ride my street bike to work every day. But anyway, It is funny how when you switch between different disciplines how much you have to change the way you ride. All the hacking the bike sideways and pushing the bike down underneath me that I do on my supermoto bike doesn't work at all when I jump on the S1000RR and ride a nice track. The way I use the front brake and use nice sweeping lines on my road race bike won't work so well on the MX track....
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Seriously:
I'm scratching my head on this little fill in the blanks riddle. Let's see if I'm on track (no pun).
Rider goes in too hot
Realizes it and gets on the brake too hard
Probably has soiled underwear
Most likely entry speed is too slow
Most likely didn't look thru the turn
Most likely misses the TP and consequently the apex, or maybe blew the entire corner
If the corner was "made", rider most likely fails to get back on the gas in a timely fashion
Most likely gets greedy to try and make up for the above
It's probably staring me in the face, if I missed it above.
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Let me ask this- Are you saying there is a mistake that causes the rider to be too hot, or a mistake as a result of being too hot?
Caused by being in too hot. All the stuff I listed in that post were things that were problems as a result from charging a turn, there is one important thing I did not list.
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Doesn't look like Melandri is doing any better on a Honda they he did on a Kawi.
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Another good point Jaybird, but no that is not the thing I had in mind.
When a rider charges into a corner there is one very basic mistake and it is a sure sign that they were in to hot. I'm kinda giving it away here
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I can't tell if he was on the gas or not. Could have happened either way, if He was just in real hot and off the gas the front could push. If he was in to hot and got back on the gas while carrying too much corner speed the front could have pushed as well.
It is uncommon to loose the front while on the gas, but it does happen.
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We tyipcally don't setup the bike for each student. We have a setup that is kinda middle of the road on all the bikes. This is the way we have been doing it for years with all the rental bikes and the settings we use work pretty well for most riders.
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This is one of the things we go into detail in the Code R.A.C.E school. When your passing guys and have to adjust your line, that changes a lot of other stuff
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Your so literal Jaybird
But that is a good point, target fixation could certainly be a symptom of charging the corner.There's at least one other really important thing to look at, anyone wana help out?May be I should have written - There's at least one other aspect of your riding your should analyze....
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Slowing down and taking a good look at what your doing on corner entry is a good step. When you do this make sure you pay close attention to the following:
Where are you turning in? - when you charge most riders want to turn in early, make sure you have a good turn point and you use it.
Are you able to relax right after turning the bike? - when you charge most riders will be tense.
Can you turn QUICK? most riders will turn slow if they are afraid they are in to fast.
When do you release the brake? many riders will trail brake into corners when it is not benefiting them when they feel like they are in to fast. Don't use trail braking as a crutch for charging.
There's at least one other really important thing to look at, anyone wana help out?
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We look forward to having you
I just rode the S1000RR the other week and I was really impressed as well. -
Yes we ALWAYS have gear with us. However, you should reserve a suite ahead of time with the office to be sure we have one for you.
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I would say split the days with the school up. You can get some stuff to work on at the school in May, then do a few track days to work on that stuff. Then come back in august and we'll figure out your weaknesses and give you more stuff to work on for the rest of the season.
The only catch is the weather will probably be a lot nicer in may
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Is charging the turn a completely individual problem that wont affect 2 people the same way, I mean say for example I was following an instructors lines round a track and at 2 or 3 of the turns I felt too fast to get on the throttle right away but the instructor was just smoothly cruising round, would that be me charging the turns but yet at the same entry speed the instructor is not?
In a word, yes.
If the instructor is comfortable with the entry speed and you are not, then you are charging the turn and he is not.
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The relax drill was the 4th drill in level one. Other names for it are Rider Input, or Do Nothing. The basic concept is to stay loose on the bars and just go with the bike.
but I used to do two clutchless downshifts on the Big Track at Willow Springs when entering turn nine. You don't really have to brake much for that turn, just roll off and down shift so I found it pretty easy to do clutchless downshifts there. Most other places I use the clutch.
Trackdays And Safety
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
I'd say it depends on the trackday provider and their clientel. Some providers do a good job of policing the groups and enforcing their rules. Others it is just a free for all.
I typically ride in the fastest group and that group is usually filled with racers that can hold their line and I can have confidence riding with them.
In the slower groups the riders are less experienced, but if the provider does a good job the riders in these groups can have a ton of fun and remain safe as well.
I really enjoy trackdays, I get the chance to go out and just ride for fun with my friends. My bud runs a track day company and he has worked hard to develop a system so that everyone has a great time and he provides a very safe day for all. Some organizations don't work as hard and their days can be mayhem...